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Rifle Scopes ?
- Thread starter Elfy
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Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
somewhat agree with you---I have Eotech's on 2 of 10 AR's and they are amazingly fast from 0 to 100 yds and have hit steel easily out to 200 but they excel at the closer ranges--my personal groups are about the same at 100 yds as with irons. I use 1 for hog hunting exclusively and have never wished for anything else---can hit them running (450B) and have become proficient (556) hitting moving targets that eluded me with a 1 to 4X scope---just have to match the optic to the intended use
somewhat agree with you---I have Eotech's on 2 of 10 AR's and they are amazingly fast from 0 to 100 yds and have hit steel easily out to 200 but they excel at the closer ranges--my personal groups are about the same at 100 yds as with irons. I use 1 for hog hunting exclusively and have never wished for anything else---can hit them running (450B) and have become proficient (556) hitting moving targets that eluded me with a 1 to 4X scope---just have to match the optic to the intended use
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
you are so right, it is all about "intended use"... something to really pay attention to when spending your hard earned money.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BERTMAN77MK2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">somewhat agree with you---I have Eotech's on 2 of 10 AR's and they are amazingly fast from 0 to 100 yds and have hit steel easily out to 200 but they excel at the closer ranges--my personal groups are about the same at 100 yds as with irons. I use 1 for hog hunting exclusively and have never wished for anything else---can hit them running (450B) and have become proficient (556) hitting moving targets that eluded me with a 1 to 4X scope---just have to match the optic to the intended use </div></div>
you are so right, it is all about "intended use"... something to really pay attention to when spending your hard earned money.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BERTMAN77MK2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">somewhat agree with you---I have Eotech's on 2 of 10 AR's and they are amazingly fast from 0 to 100 yds and have hit steel easily out to 200 but they excel at the closer ranges--my personal groups are about the same at 100 yds as with irons. I use 1 for hog hunting exclusively and have never wished for anything else---can hit them running (450B) and have become proficient (556) hitting moving targets that eluded me with a 1 to 4X scope---just have to match the optic to the intended use </div></div>
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
If you can't quickly and effectively shoot a red dot mounted basic AR from zero to 200 yards, it isn't the equipment.
If you can't quickly and effectively shoot a red dot mounted basic AR from zero to 200 yards, it isn't the equipment.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
Wow, it is a combat optic first and foremost. Believe it or not humans are easy to see and hit with any dot scope to well in excess of 300 yards or meters when the dot is sighted in correctly! They were never intended for target shooting as the whole idea of zero magnification is to keep both eyes wide open so your not loosing your field of vision on the two way range. Last believe it or not you don't shoot groups in combat as it is a very ineffective way to create additional wound paths and trauma. Not bagging on you at all so don't take it that way. The EoTech is absolutely perfect for what its intended use was and still is. IMHO it is the fastest optic you can get for 0-300 meter fast target acquiescence shooting.
Wow, it is a combat optic first and foremost. Believe it or not humans are easy to see and hit with any dot scope to well in excess of 300 yards or meters when the dot is sighted in correctly! They were never intended for target shooting as the whole idea of zero magnification is to keep both eyes wide open so your not loosing your field of vision on the two way range. Last believe it or not you don't shoot groups in combat as it is a very ineffective way to create additional wound paths and trauma. Not bagging on you at all so don't take it that way. The EoTech is absolutely perfect for what its intended use was and still is. IMHO it is the fastest optic you can get for 0-300 meter fast target acquiescence shooting.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
the red dot is more designed for minute of man, than minute of angle shooting
the red dot is more designed for minute of man, than minute of angle shooting
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
I also started with a red dot (my first and only), amd found my accuracy limited to 50 yrds or less. With iron sights I could be accurate to 300 yrds. I put a 3-9X30 scope on my AR and now it is a pleasure to shoot and can drive nails with it.
I thought it was just me that had trouble using a red dot. I think parallax and the fact the scope sits higher was the cause of my difficuties.
I also started with a red dot (my first and only), amd found my accuracy limited to 50 yrds or less. With iron sights I could be accurate to 300 yrds. I put a 3-9X30 scope on my AR and now it is a pleasure to shoot and can drive nails with it.
I thought it was just me that had trouble using a red dot. I think parallax and the fact the scope sits higher was the cause of my difficuties.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jerseymike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmmmmm........ </div></div>
You took the Hmmmmmm...... right out of my mouth!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jerseymike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmmmmm........ </div></div>
You took the Hmmmmmm...... right out of my mouth!!
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elfy1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In terms of target practice @ about 100 yards the eotech dot really started to cover up the whole 4" to 5" target (even tho they say it is a 1 moa dot)
Elfy </div></div>
One thing that you can do here to help is turn down the light intensity. That reduces the size of the dot's fuzz and makes it much easier to see small targets at 100+yds.
With that said, this really is the wrong piece of gear if you are looking to shot small targets at 100+yds, as it sounds like you found out the hard way.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elfy1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In terms of target practice @ about 100 yards the eotech dot really started to cover up the whole 4" to 5" target (even tho they say it is a 1 moa dot)
Elfy </div></div>
One thing that you can do here to help is turn down the light intensity. That reduces the size of the dot's fuzz and makes it much easier to see small targets at 100+yds.
With that said, this really is the wrong piece of gear if you are looking to shot small targets at 100+yds, as it sounds like you found out the hard way.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 42769vette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the red dot is more designed for minute of man, than minute of angle shooting </div></div> Exactly, let's reach into the kit and pull out the right tool for the job.................
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 42769vette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the red dot is more designed for minute of man, than minute of angle shooting </div></div> Exactly, let's reach into the kit and pull out the right tool for the job.................
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can't quickly and effectively shoot a red dot mounted basic AR from zero to 200 yards, it isn't the equipment. </div></div>
^This.^
Get your eyes checked. My Eotech is MOA or maybe even smaller at the proper intensity. Think about this, it covers the same percentage of the taget with the magnifier on, if that was 4-5" it wouldn't make it any more precise.
Iron sights have been used to hit targets competitively to 1000yds, magnification is nice, I run it on allot of rifles, but its far from neccesary. Though obviously, the palma and hi power boys don't get the groups of the BRs.
The red dot is primary over irons in service because it is much faster and much simpler, being parallex free, to make hits with.
They have uses, and its not solely combat. They're great for short range hunting, and a blast on reactive targets. They're a pile of frustration if you want to shoot groups.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can't quickly and effectively shoot a red dot mounted basic AR from zero to 200 yards, it isn't the equipment. </div></div>
^This.^
Get your eyes checked. My Eotech is MOA or maybe even smaller at the proper intensity. Think about this, it covers the same percentage of the taget with the magnifier on, if that was 4-5" it wouldn't make it any more precise.
Iron sights have been used to hit targets competitively to 1000yds, magnification is nice, I run it on allot of rifles, but its far from neccesary. Though obviously, the palma and hi power boys don't get the groups of the BRs.
The red dot is primary over irons in service because it is much faster and much simpler, being parallex free, to make hits with.
They have uses, and its not solely combat. They're great for short range hunting, and a blast on reactive targets. They're a pile of frustration if you want to shoot groups.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
I shoot my ar15 out to 100 all the time with my eotech and take it out to 200 every now and again and have no problem hitting the target. i cant expect 1 moa groups with it, but ur not suppose to with an eotech.
I shoot my ar15 out to 100 all the time with my eotech and take it out to 200 every now and again and have no problem hitting the target. i cant expect 1 moa groups with it, but ur not suppose to with an eotech.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
I will agree that the Eotech (and red dots in general) are not precision target sights. All this post shows is that they are not for everyone.
I will agree that the Eotech (and red dots in general) are not precision target sights. All this post shows is that they are not for everyone.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyAngel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will agree that the Eotech (and red dots in general) are not precision target sights. All this post shows is that they are not for everyone. </div></div>
agree'd. i prefer using a low magnification scope vs an eotech personally, but sometimes a red dot is just "faster"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyAngel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will agree that the Eotech (and red dots in general) are not precision target sights. All this post shows is that they are not for everyone. </div></div>
agree'd. i prefer using a low magnification scope vs an eotech personally, but sometimes a red dot is just "faster"
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
I love my Eotechs, especially with the 3x magnifier for 100 meters and out.
I love my Eotechs, especially with the 3x magnifier for 100 meters and out.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
For my purposes, I've found the little TA44S-10 ACOG (1.5X) to be a very good compromise. You'd be surprised at how much difference that little .5X magnification makes.
I really have to take my time to hit golf balls at 100 with a red dot. With the ACOG, it's no big deal. The reticle in the ACOG is also a lot cleaner and better defined. My view of the reticle is also unaffected by my astigmatism.
For my purposes, I've found the little TA44S-10 ACOG (1.5X) to be a very good compromise. You'd be surprised at how much difference that little .5X magnification makes.
I really have to take my time to hit golf balls at 100 with a red dot. With the ACOG, it's no big deal. The reticle in the ACOG is also a lot cleaner and better defined. My view of the reticle is also unaffected by my astigmatism.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
I would go with this comment myself. But it does have a lot to do with learning how to use it better. My favorite thing about the eotech is that I can zero for 300 and when doing up close work, <20 yards, I can use the bottom hash mark instead of holding over into space to hit were I want. I have shot the best groups out of my M1A with an eotech.
EDIT: sorry about the failed quote still getting used to your site.
I would go with this comment myself. But it does have a lot to do with learning how to use it better. My favorite thing about the eotech is that I can zero for 300 and when doing up close work, <20 yards, I can use the bottom hash mark instead of holding over into space to hit were I want. I have shot the best groups out of my M1A with an eotech.
EDIT: sorry about the failed quote still getting used to your site.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
go with what you like, try everything out or at least look at it before you buy it.
to me, guns are like anything else, you have to match the gun to the situation, same goes for the optic.
go with what you like, try everything out or at least look at it before you buy it.
to me, guns are like anything else, you have to match the gun to the situation, same goes for the optic.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jerseymike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmmmmm........ </div></div>
You took the Hmmmmmm...... right out of my mouth!! </div></div>
Another Vote for = Hmmmmmmm
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jerseymike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmmmmm........ </div></div>
You took the Hmmmmmm...... right out of my mouth!! </div></div>
Another Vote for = Hmmmmmmm
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can't quickly and effectively shoot a red dot mounted basic AR from zero to 200 yards, it isn't the equipment. </div></div>
i hear you on that. i have an eotech on my 3gun AR and ive shot out to 600 with it in a match. i see guys hitting 600 yards with iron sights every weekend (high power matches) so yea if u cant hit with a red dot dont blame it on the optic. and saying that 75 is max on those i think not. other than that i agree with you. 1-4's are better but eotechs can be just as good in the right hands
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can't quickly and effectively shoot a red dot mounted basic AR from zero to 200 yards, it isn't the equipment. </div></div>
i hear you on that. i have an eotech on my 3gun AR and ive shot out to 600 with it in a match. i see guys hitting 600 yards with iron sights every weekend (high power matches) so yea if u cant hit with a red dot dont blame it on the optic. and saying that 75 is max on those i think not. other than that i agree with you. 1-4's are better but eotechs can be just as good in the right hands
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SPDGG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jerseymike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmmmmm........ </div></div>
You took the Hmmmmmm...... right out of my mouth!! </div></div>
Another Vote for = Hmmmmmmm
</div></div>
Uh, hmmmmmm? Yeah, count me in.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SPDGG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jerseymike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmmmmm........ </div></div>
You took the Hmmmmmm...... right out of my mouth!! </div></div>
Another Vote for = Hmmmmmmm
</div></div>
Uh, hmmmmmm? Yeah, count me in.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
I think some might be taking this posting a tad bit tooooo much serious and a little too much to heart. I'm not saying you should all ditch your red dots / eotechs / magnifiers. If that is your thing, then great. Trust me, I'm not blasting you. This is just my own personal experience. IMO = in my opinion. Some might have not of actually read the entire posting and B-lined it straight from the subject header to a response.
Need to remember, my posting is "IMO, why <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">I</span></span> would NOT",,,,, NOT "IMO, why YOU should NOT"... Calm down, Calm down. Red dots and eotech are still bad a$$. It is just not my thing for my situation. Lets be a little more respectable.
Elfy
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Strykervet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SPDGG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jerseymike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmmmmm........ </div></div>
You took the Hmmmmmm...... right out of my mouth!! </div></div>
Another Vote for = Hmmmmmmm
</div></div>
Uh, hmmmmmm? Yeah, count me in. </div></div>
I think some might be taking this posting a tad bit tooooo much serious and a little too much to heart. I'm not saying you should all ditch your red dots / eotechs / magnifiers. If that is your thing, then great. Trust me, I'm not blasting you. This is just my own personal experience. IMO = in my opinion. Some might have not of actually read the entire posting and B-lined it straight from the subject header to a response.
Need to remember, my posting is "IMO, why <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">I</span></span> would NOT",,,,, NOT "IMO, why YOU should NOT"... Calm down, Calm down. Red dots and eotech are still bad a$$. It is just not my thing for my situation. Lets be a little more respectable.
Elfy
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Strykervet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SPDGG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jerseymike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmmmmm........ </div></div>
You took the Hmmmmmm...... right out of my mouth!! </div></div>
Another Vote for = Hmmmmmmm
</div></div>
Uh, hmmmmmm? Yeah, count me in. </div></div>
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
I've never had issues with "irons." Don't need no stinking red dot.
I've never had issues with "irons." Don't need no stinking red dot.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elfy1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think some might be taking this posting a tad bit tooooo much serious and a little too much to heart. </div></div>
With only 18 posts I guess you haven't learned you can't be an iconoclast, even intellectually, on SH.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elfy1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think some might be taking this posting a tad bit tooooo much serious and a little too much to heart. </div></div>
With only 18 posts I guess you haven't learned you can't be an iconoclast, even intellectually, on SH.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
Here's my thoughts. First off, yes, it's in your own opinion and for your own personal applications. You didn't like it for shooting groups at distance, and of course I'm not surprised that you didn't. It's the wrong tool for the job as you quickly discovered.
But... Did you try it for the purpose that it's intended for? It's a close combat optic. You don't have to be in a war zone to put it to good use. Try some hammer pairs on multiple targets while moving. Shoot some "el Presidente" drills with it. Show up to some tactical carbine courses or matches and try your hand. Be careful though, they're addictive and next thing you know you're burning through a thousand rounds per range trip.
I'm glad you found your optic for the shooting style you're doing, but you might want to try some of the other disciplines the red dots were made for. They're loads of fun.
Here's my thoughts. First off, yes, it's in your own opinion and for your own personal applications. You didn't like it for shooting groups at distance, and of course I'm not surprised that you didn't. It's the wrong tool for the job as you quickly discovered.
But... Did you try it for the purpose that it's intended for? It's a close combat optic. You don't have to be in a war zone to put it to good use. Try some hammer pairs on multiple targets while moving. Shoot some "el Presidente" drills with it. Show up to some tactical carbine courses or matches and try your hand. Be careful though, they're addictive and next thing you know you're burning through a thousand rounds per range trip.
I'm glad you found your optic for the shooting style you're doing, but you might want to try some of the other disciplines the red dots were made for. They're loads of fun.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
Match the tool to the use and the user. What works for one may not be the best for another.
I use many options, from EoTechs to 40x scopes (and wish I had more) so there are no universal answers for all.
Not to mention iron sights STILL are the best for some uses.
Match the tool to the use and the user. What works for one may not be the best for another.
I use many options, from EoTechs to 40x scopes (and wish I had more) so there are no universal answers for all.
Not to mention iron sights STILL are the best for some uses.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elfy1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wow, was that ever a waste of time. forum is a tad bit too defensive for my taste. just trying to give my own personal experience and trying to help others. sssheesshh. moving on. </div></div>
Firearms related sports are one of the most nationally attacked past-times in this country. It can make people edgy and inpatient with people. Defensive, that is kind of fitting giving the context of the forum.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elfy1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wow, was that ever a waste of time. forum is a tad bit too defensive for my taste. just trying to give my own personal experience and trying to help others. sssheesshh. moving on. </div></div>
Firearms related sports are one of the most nationally attacked past-times in this country. It can make people edgy and inpatient with people. Defensive, that is kind of fitting giving the context of the forum.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
This debate just highlights the reason to own multiple ARs. I have a RRA 16in with an Eotech that does it's job very well. My next build will be the same gun with a 1-4 and a 45 degree RMR. One of the major benefits of the AR platform is the ability to be a great Eotech gun and a high-mag varmint gun with a simple scope change.
This debate just highlights the reason to own multiple ARs. I have a RRA 16in with an Eotech that does it's job very well. My next build will be the same gun with a 1-4 and a 45 degree RMR. One of the major benefits of the AR platform is the ability to be a great Eotech gun and a high-mag varmint gun with a simple scope change.
Re: IMO,,,, why i would NOT get an eotech / red dot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elfy1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wow, was that ever a waste of time. forum is a tad bit too defensive for my taste. just trying to give my own personal experience and trying to help others. sssheesshh. moving on. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elfy1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wow, was that ever a waste of time. forum is a tad bit too defensive for my taste. just trying to give my own personal experience and trying to help others. sssheesshh. moving on. </div></div>
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