14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

N

NRAShooter

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Minuteman
Nov 8, 2008
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Los Angeles, CA
#1
Looking at having a 14.5 inch upper built with a perm'd AAC blackout flash hider/suppressor mount installed.

Already had a couple of shooters tell me the 14.5 inch barrel is indistinguishable from the 16 inch M4 type barrel I already have.

Aside from the obvious 14.5 OAL reduction, does the 14.5 inch barrel shoot like the 16?
 
#2
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

Why have a flash hider pinned on if you were want to change that rifle around later in life you are pretty much stuck with what youve got. I dont see where 2 inches overall length is going to make a difference and noticeablity. Me personally I would rather have the adjustability in the future than to pin a muzzle device on.
 
#3
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

Gotta have the muzzle device pinned and welded in my state. No SBR permits unless you have a Badge and its for official use. It is what it is. Permd 14.5 with the right muzzle device counts as a 16 barrel which is ok. Stupid law, yes, but can't move at this point.
 
#5
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NRAShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looking at having a 14.5 inch upper built with a perm'd AAC blackout flash hider/suppressor mount installed.

Already had a couple of shooters tell me the 14.5 inch barrel is indistinguishable from the 16 inch M4 type barrel I already have.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Aside from the obvious 14.5 OAL reduction, does the 14.5 inch barrel shoot like the 16?</span></div></div> Pretty much. You're likely to see bigger shifts in trajectories from temperature and DA shifts than you will from velocity shift from losing 1.5" of barrel length, depending on what you're calling "hits" and at what distances you're shooting.

I really can't notice any significant difference using the same ACOG (NSN) type, same ammo, on 6" plates to 300yds with my 14.5" and 16". Longer range or shooting for sub-MOA and you will probably tell though. I use my carbines for carbine distances and the MK12 for the longer stuff.
 
#6
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're likely to see bigger shifts in trajectories from temperature and DA shifts than you will from velocity shift from losing 1.5" of barrel length, depending on what you're calling "hits" and at what distances you're shooting.

I really can't notice any significant difference using the same ACOG (NSN) type, same ammo, on 6" plates to 300yds with my 14.5" and 16". Longer range or shooting for sub-MOA and you will probably tell though. I use my carbines for carbine distances and the MK12 for the longer stuff. </div></div>

Redmanss is correct. Temps and DAs will shift the zero on a 14.5" more significantly than the 16". I have a Noveske N4 14.5". It is a good rifle for 0-300 at 2-3moa targets, but it is frustrating if you are looking to shot really tight groups and/or small targets. After 10 rounds or so, its zero will shift up by 1moa and usually 1moa to the right. With that said, it is a very fun rifle and a deadly one at that - if the SHTF, it is the rifle I would grab.
 
#7
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

Considering how the U.S. Army units that Appleseed trained were able to get pretty consistent hits out to 600m with their 14.5" barreled rifles, I'd say you have nothing to worry about. The wind will play a little more hell with your shooting with the reduced velocity, but I doubt you'd notice too much going from 14.5" to 16". Now if you're talking about the difference between one of those and a 20", that may be noteworthy, but I say go for the 14.5" if you want to suppress it. It will help keep the length a little more manageable. Plus it looks cool.
 
#8
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

I had debated the same thing when I was building my carbine and came up with the same conclusions. I would go with the 16" just because it is less trouble. No need to pin and weld.
 
#9
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NRAShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looking at having a 14.5 inch upper built with a perm'd AAC blackout flash hider/suppressor mount installed.

Already had a couple of shooters tell me the 14.5 inch barrel is indistinguishable from the 16 inch M4 type barrel I already have.

Aside from the obvious 14.5 OAL reduction, does the 14.5 inch barrel shoot like the 16?</div></div>

I have a 14.5" with a YHM on it that I use for teaching/training and will tell you there's no issue with the loss of 1.5" in rifle performance. Like everything else, good barrel, chamber, bolt and ammo and you're fine.

Rich
 
#12
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

Honestly get a good quality upper and there is not difference in it being 14.5 or 16" accept 14.5 your stuck with that bird cage flash hider.
 
#13
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NRAShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So out to 400 yards, it seems academic. </div></div> From my experience, yes. As long as you make sure you have a good barrel and builder, there is virtually no noticeable difference at those ranges.
 
#14
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NRAShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So out to 400 yards, it seems academic. </div></div> From my experience, yes. As long as you make sure you have a good barrel and builder, there is virtually no noticeable difference at those ranges. </div></div>

There is one difference.. velocity and energy in a cartridge that was designed to deliver optimal results from a 20 inch barrel. however if your just ringing steel or knocking a hole in paper help your self. I personally do not like to go shorter than 16 inches in a 5.56 anything.
 
#15
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BERTMAN77MK2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">14.5 is handier in urban environments if you need it--no loss of accuracy--just velocity </div></div>


Dude, please. 14.5" with a pinned FH is for civis that can not or will not get an SBR yet fail to understand the purposelessness of it. For a civi the 1.5" of marginal velocity is FAR more useful than 1.5" of length.

1.5" does not make the difference of manipulating a door that swings into the shooter with the rifle mounted. If 1.5" makes a difference on a corner - the shooter probably ought to learn how to shoot with the buttstock on top of the shoulder.

A practical carbine needs to be 10.5" - 12.5" or 16". Anything else is warrantless.


Good luck

 
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#16
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

I built a 14.7 a few years ago with Pell Washer and A2 Bird Cage installed by CMMG. It looks like a factory Colt 14.5 with Colt Upper & Lower, and Colt Double Heat Shield correct Handguards. I built exactly what I wanted at the time, and I am still happy with the configuration it is in.
With that said, If I had it all to do over, it would be a 16" so that I could reconfigure it if I wanted to. Not so easy when pinned and welded.
As was said above, no one ever seems to notice it is not a 16" anyway. I have it out shooting 2-Gun matches now and again, so it gets exposure.
 
#17
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharpshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally do not like to go shorter than 16 inches in a 5.56 anything. </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">+1</span>

That's how I feel about it.
 
#19
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
BERTMAN77MK2 said:
A practical carbine needs to be 10.5" - 12.5" or 16". Anything else is warrantless.


Good luck</div></div>

Do yourself a favor though, pick a different cartridge if going the 10.5-12.5" route. The 5.56/.223 really shouldn't be run in anything shorter than 14.5". You take an already somewhat controversial cartridge (from a military standpoint) and continue to hamstring it until it's ballistics are approaching anemic. Then people wonder why this cartridge isn't putting enemies down like it should *insert eyeroll*
Click to expand...
 
#21
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

The ammo oracle at AR15 does discuss in detail the velocity at which the military rounds will fragment, but I don't recall seeing the actual data on different barrel lengths.

Does anyone have the actual FPS data handy for M855 and M193 from both 16" and 14.5" barrels?
 
#23
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

I personally like 16" or longer but that is because I don't want to SBR one and like being able to change out the flashhider. 16" with a mid lenght gas system is what I am shooting more often.

Being able to supress one is also an advantage. Paper work is taking forever (4 months) now a days in my state.
 
#24
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heltsley</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-weight: bold">16" with a mid lenght gas system is what I am shooting more often.</span>
</div></div>I think that is ideal from a function/ergonomics standpoint. But if you really want something light, maneuverable, but that still has reasonable velocity, then a 14.5" is the ticket, IMO, but I wouldn't want anything shorter. If I want to suppress something, I've got a few things I could suppress, or i could get the SE suppressor that attaches to the pinned Vortex on my (soon to arrive) Noveske 14.5".
 
#25
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

seeing as your in nazifornia.. i would say just get a 16" makes things so much easier if you want to change them later, not having the flash hider pinned/welded to the barrel.. as for oal.. the 1.5" makes doesn't make that much of a difference for room clearing and such..
 
#26
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RONIN.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">seeing as your in nazifornia.. i would say just get a 16" makes things so much easier if you want to change them later, not having the flash hider pinned/welded to the barrel.. as for oal.. the 1.5" makes doesn't make that much of a difference for room clearing and such.. </div></div> I wonder how often it is really necessary to change anything once it is set up? If I actually wore out a barrel, I wouldn't really be worried about having to cut off a flash hider to save a railed forearm, if that's what I wanted. There are a few two-piece railed handguards now that don't even require removal of the GB. I can't imagine a scenario where a pinned FH really presents a big problem.
 
#27
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maestro</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RONIN.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">seeing as your in nazifornia.. i would say just get a 16" makes things so much easier if you want to change them later, not having the flash hider pinned/welded to the barrel.. as for oal.. the 1.5" makes doesn't make that much of a difference for room clearing and such.. </div></div> I wonder how often it is really necessary to change anything once it is set up? If I actually wore out a barrel, I wouldn't really be worried about having to cut off a flash hider to save a railed forearm, if that's what I wanted. There are a few two-piece railed handguards now that don't even require removal of the GB. I can't imagine a scenario where a pinned FH really presents a big problem. </div></div>

+1. I've a 14.5 w/pinned Phantom and foresee no need to remove the FH. When the barrel's toast, I'll just can the whole thing and start over....

The way I see it, the M4 is a 14.5, and the only reason the 16's came out was for "regular folk" to get a minimum barrel length AR. I'd like to see that stupid, arbitrary, 16" law go away, but don't see that happening anytime soon.

Cheers,

Bill
 
#28
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

To answer your initial question yes! I shoot 2 Noveske's in 14.5(5.56 & 7.62) and can tell you a lot about both! I also have the same barreled 7.62 in a SBR! Now all my barrels are highly accurate and "medium heavy" as far as tactical shooting goes! I shoot at all distances and my Novese 14.5 .223 shoot better that my DPMS standard ofcourse at the same length! Just remember: shhorter barrel "USUALLY" means less gas expanding behind the projectile before exiting the barrel therefore resulting in decreased range & terminal velocity & longer range capability! LAST: Get a sure fire break instead of a flash hider if option is there! They are worth it & there is a reson they r hard to find!!
 
#29
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3wide</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A pinned and welded muzzle devise still can be removed and changed if you want. Alittle more work but still possible. </div></div>

Yup. To me the 14.5" is fine as I have a muzzle device that I'm happy with and I prefer the lighter, shorter barrel.
 
#30
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

One thing you guys have left out is "dwell time". "Carbine" AR's are noted for being "hard" on the parts and the shooter and this is directly related to dwell time. This is also why a lot of folks like how a 20" AR shoots (with a rifle length gas system).

A 14.5" barrel with a carbine gas system has a similar dwell time as a 20" rifle length gas AR. A typical 16" barrel with a carbine gas system is generally overgassed. Midlength 16" corrects that problem for a 16" (as does an adjustable gas block or a correctly sized gas port).

I personally prefer a 14.5" with a perm. attached muzzle device. Outside of having a desirable dwell time, you get a shorter gun and you not only loose weight overall, you loose it off the muzzle end of the gun.
 
#32
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

The gas driving the action is collected from the gas port to the end of the muzzle. As the projectile acts like the plug until it leaves the muzzle. Gas systems being equal, a shorter barrel will collect less gas than a longer one.
 
#33
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MX124</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The gas driving the action is collected from the gas port to the end of the muzzle. As the projectile acts like the plug until it leaves the muzzle. Gas systems being equal, a shorter barrel will collect less gas than a longer one. </div></div>
This.
 
#34
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

Makes sense. And I'm guessing when the bullet is past the gas port, it doesn't change the pressure curve exponentially. And I am imagining that only when the round leaves the barrel the pressure drop very quickly.
 
#35
Re: 14.5 vs 16 inch barrels

A Mark 18 would be ideallic. Not a reality based option for me. Life strikes again, Darn!

A 14.5 inch barrel is a good a I can get. That's why I asked the question.

Let's put this in perspective: Hold out for Jenna Jamison or be happy with a great wife? Drive a Corvette Z06 or hold out for the F1 Ferrari? Work an good job or hold out for Nobel Prize award?

I'll take the 14.5 inch rifle, great wife, Z06 and good job. Depending on the day, the order may change, but content will be the same.

The choice is yours. The Jenna Jamison option though is a tough one.
 
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