< $1500 "just works" bolt action

[littlepod]

Hi everyone, long time lurker, and just starting to get into more precision shooting and looking for a bolt action. I am no gunsmith so I don't think I'd like to get into something custom where I end up having to investigate what might be wrong with a barrel or headspacing or my action not being properly set right, so I just kind of want something that just works and works well. Local range nearby is only out to 200 yards, and I think every few months I'll go out and try out longer distances, if I'm mainly staying under 700 yards, should I just stick with the .223? Another bonus is that I have a 5.56 SAKER that I could run with the rifle (not a fan of running it on my AR-15 right now, so it kind of just sits)

Looking at ammo prices, I'm seeing decent results for the PPU 168gr ~75c a round so I was considering trying out a .308 rifle (I've only ever shot my AR-15) The PPU 75gr on my AR-15 shoots well and I've heard sub moa results from the 168gr.

Rifle will mainly be used at an outdoor range, which has a small hike, and some outdoor trips when I get to shoot > 200 yards. So weight wise, would prefer towards the general usage direction.

So I guess to summarize.

1. If <= 600 yards, worth going for a .308 vs .223?
2. Any problem running my bolt suppressed? Forums say that it might increase accuracy if anything? I didn't like how dirty it made my AR-15 and the blowback and ejection issues I was having.
3. Rifles that I've been thinking of would be Savage Precision Carbine, Savage FCP HS, One of the Tikka rifles? Not sure yet, as they have so many models to read up on. T3 lite for $528, or move up to the Super Varmint ~900?
4. Are there any custom rifle shops that will have ~$1500 ish rifle with something like the X-Ray chassis on it? And also good enough customer support where if it doesn't work, they can just fix it and not leave me wondering what might be wrong? Any custom rifle I'm seeing is always 3k+

Edit: I know for $1500 I can probably just buy my own stock, my own action, and figure all this out. But I'm more valuing my time and peace of mind over the cost. I rather have the professionals make it work and I just get to enjoy it

Thanks for the help and feedback.

 

[0311 Hesco]

Stick with the .223 Especially if you have the can already.
Run it suppressed. Why wouldn't you if you already have the can! You wont have a problem. Gas gun problems like that don't happen in bolt actions
Tikkas are sweet shooting rifles.
If you want to spend $1500 on a rifle, my advice is get a stock rifle like the Tikka and then but $1000 glass. Get a Vortex Viper PST. Them you can get all the cool gadgets and stuff for it later. Remember its more the Indian than the arrow and if the indian can't see, the indian can't hit.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Theres a .223ai tactical in the classifides with some chassis system for $1200. If you reload that should fit your bill.

Otherwise id agree for 600 stick with a .223. Tikka tactical, remington tactical, savage all make nice rifles with 1/9 or faster twist barrels. They each have their goods and bads if you really break it down but all are great rifles.

 

[Apex360]

Stick with the .223 Especially if you have the can already.
Run it suppressed. Why wouldn't you if you already have the can! You wont have a problem. Gas gun problems like that don't happen in bolt actions
Tikkas are sweet shooting rifles.
If you want to spend $1500 on a rifle, my advice is get a stock rifle like the Tikka and then but $1000 glass. Get a Vortex Viper PST. Them you can get all the cool gadgets and stuff for it later. Remember its more the Indian than the arrow and if the indian can't see, the indian can't hit.

I agree with this guy! and.....Tikkas are magical right out of the box.

 

[Ledzep]

Some of my advice, take it or leave it.

Find the cheapest Remington 700 short action you can in whichever caliber you pick, get set up with LRI's group buy. Throw it in a B&C or HS precision stock with a mini-chassis and call it good. I recently did this with a rifle that's been in the family for 40 years or so and have about $1200 into it before optics.

New m700 ADL- $400
LRI group buy blueprint,barrel hanging, cerakote 1 color- $450
HS precision stock- $350
Match barrel- $330

$1530. Figure some shipping and whatever else, yeah you're probably looking at a bit more (Wait for sales, too, and you could easily cut $100+ from that), but it will SHOOT. You don't have to worry about anything, just send a box of parts and get a rifle back in the mail a few weeks later (if that). Chad will fix anything if it's wrong.

I don't think a chassis system is going to fit in with a "custom" build under a $1500 budget. If you want DBM, or a chassis, you can either just get a standard factory action, or raise the budget.

As far as caliber, .223 is fine within 600. Run 65-75gr projectiles and you'll likely be happy with it. I definitely suggest getting into reloading.

If it's a .223 you go with, absolutely run the can. There's no semi-auto cycling, so you won't have blow-back, and you won't be throwing carbon fouling everywhere in the action like a semi-auto does.

 

[littlepod]

Theres a .223ai tactical in the classifides with some chassis system for $1200. If you reload that should fit your bill.

Otherwise id agree for 600 stick with a .223. Tikka tactical, remington tactical, savage all make nice rifles with 1/9 or faster twist barrels. They each have their goods and bads if you really break it down but all are great rifles.

I saw this post http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/firearms-sale/273120-223-ai-sale-price-drop.html is this something you would recommend for that price? I'm always weary not knowing much about tinkering/fixing my guns to be able to diagnose if something was wrong or mishandled when buying used. You also mentioned about reloading, why wouldn't 77gr SMK just "work" for a 1/8 twist barrel? Are they super picky?

Tikka doesn't seem to have an offering of .223 with the 1/2x28 threading which my suppressor QD mounts to so I'd need to pay an additional $ for a gunsmith to do it right. Savages are 1/9, and I think for shooting 75gr+ I should stick with the 1/8 or faster.

 

[FailToObserve]

I think the Tikka T3 Lite is your best bang for your buck. Spend the rest on glass as mentioned earlier. And you can always thread the muzzle later. Retail is $578 on eurooptics.com. It certainly fits your "just works" needs.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

The .223ai has a steeper neck angle and there are no factory loads (that in aware of) for that. So you would have to reload.

 

[fdkay]

Sig SSG 3000.
Available for around 1300 bucks and I have not seen a bad review yet.

 

[littlepod]

I think the Tikka T3 Lite is your best bang for your buck. Spend the rest on glass as mentioned earlier. And you can always thread the muzzle later. Retail is $578 on eurooptics.com. It certainly fits your "just works" needs.

With regards to glass I already have budgeted out the Burris XTR II 3-15, so this is just the $1500 upper bounds for the rifle. I'll take a look at the T3 lite, the "lite" moniker does that mean super light barrel, so after a few shots I'm going to get group spread due to how quickly it heats up?

 

[FailToObserve]

< $1500 "just works" bolt action

Oh I see. My bad. And yes thinner barrel would generally mean heats faster/cools faster. Tikka has other versions with heavier barrels. Either way I would push tikka because it really suits what you're looking for. Out of the box awesomeness for a great price.

Edit: forgot to add groups will open up when barrel is too hot.

 

[Randoman5]

You can still buy a Tikka T3 varmint in .223. It comes with a heavy barrel. If that's the caliber you pick I can't think of a better choice for your budget. I think it's $900 It leaves you money for a chassis.

If you decide to go to the .308 range the SSG 3000 is awesome. There's one at my local gun store and I'm thinking very very hard about selling my 700 and Mcree chassis to buy one.

 

[The Gump]

If you're into the R700 you could get an SPS TAC in .308 with a threaded barrel and put it in an XRAY. I think that along with a decent scope and you should be good till you want to upgrade the trigger, barrel, etc. R700's might not shoot the best but they have the upper hand in the aftermarket. I would not get a .223. .308 isn't that much more expensive and you will be able to see splash more effectively.

 

[Apex360]

With regards to glass I already have budgeted out the Burris XTR II 3-15, so this is just the $1500 upper bounds for the rifle. I'll take a look at the T3 lite, the "lite" moniker does that mean super light barrel, so after a few shots I'm going to get group spread due to how quickly it heats up?

The stock is very light weight. Trust me, the groups do not spread on this rifle after a few shots. It's a Great Bang for your buck. All you would need to do is get the muzzle threaded later.

 

[littlepod]

The stock is very light weight. Trust me, the groups do not spread on this rifle after a few shots. It's a Great Bang for your buck. All you would need to do is get the muzzle threaded later.

Thanks for the info. Definitely considering the T3 lite. Some people mentioned that given how the barrel thins out, threading it / running a suppressor at the end might not be the best idea. I'm researching that model, and maybe the varmint model. The extra few hundred doesn't bother me if it buys me decent improvements.

 

[Apex360]

Thanks for the info. Definitely considering the T3 lite. Some people mentioned that given how the barrel thins out, threading it / running a suppressor at the end might not be the best idea. I'm researching that model, and maybe the varmint model. The extra few hundred doesn't bother me if it buys me decent improvements.

No problem. I didn't think the barrel thins out that much, but I can measure mine and let you know. I will be stateside back home this next weekend and can let you know for sure then.

 

[littlepod]

Tikka T3 Lite, I'm able to get around here for $550. Then pay the extra $100 to get it threaded. The Savage 10 Precision Carbine I can get around $750, and is already threaded. Though I haven't heard much about factory Savages, everyone seems to have theirs pretty after market tuned. Out of the box are they pretty close to Tikka's? Also I hear Savage CS is much better than the Beretta support in the US for dealing with Tikka?

Savage would be 1:9 instead of 1:8, so I'd drop to 69gr ammo. I would prefer a 1:8 but there aren't any Savages stock like that.

 

[FailToObserve]

I have a stock Savage PC (non-threaded version) in 308. Love it. Almost had to sell it... My best so far is about 1 MOA out of the box accuracy. The bolt is not nearly as smooth as a tikka. It's a bit of a rugged action. When I did my research I got a lot of mix reviews. My personal experience is that it's a "just works" rifle.. but this is very anecdotal. The reviews from other owners show a lot of problems but many other reviews show it's great out of the box. I feel I lucked out in getting a Savage that doesn't have any problems. The biggest reason why I wouldn't suggest a Savage to you is because it's design allows you to tinker with it yourself. But your original post seems to suggest you would rather not mess with the rifle. Oh and the rifle is 9-10 lbs unloaded/no scope. :/

I heard Eurooptics.com is essentially what Berretta should be. I don't think you need Beretta for anything. A lot of aftermarket items out there now. Just not nearly as big as the 700.

 

[littlepod]

I have a stock Savage PC (non-threaded version) in 308. Love it. Almost had to sell it... My best so far is about 1 MOA out of the box accuracy. The bolt is not nearly as smooth as a tikka. It's a bit of a rugged action. When I did my research I got a lot of mix reviews. My personal experience is that it's a "just works" rifle.. but this is very anecdotal. The reviews from other owners show a lot of problems but many other reviews show it's great out of the box. I feel I lucked out in getting a Savage that doesn't have any problems. The biggest reason why I wouldn't suggest a Savage to you is because it's design allows you to tinker with it yourself. But your original post seems to suggest you would rather not mess with the rifle. Oh and the rifle is 9-10 lbs unloaded/no scope. :/

I heard Eurooptics.com is essentially what Berretta should be. I don't think you need Beretta for anything. A lot of aftermarket items out there now. Just not nearly as big as the 700.

I wonder if that's an older model. The new ones look to only come threaded and are 8lbs now. I'm contacting Eurooptic to see what threading options they might have with the Tikka.

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

I am surprised the nobody has mentioned the FN SPR A1 that Tactical Coordination has been selling for $1200.

Mine has worked very well. So well, I bought another.

 

[R Moran]

I would not let something like a threaded barrel or lack of one, influence my decision either way.

 

[Apex360]

I would not let something like a threaded barrel or lack of one, influence my decision either way.

I agree with you, but the OP wants to run his suppressor on it. I'm sure either way he chooses will have or can have threads for QD Suppressor.

 

[Downzero]

The .223ai has a steeper neck angle and there are no factory loads (that in aware of) for that. So you would have to reload.

An AI will shoot factory ammo in the same cartridge. A .223 rem will shoot in a .223 AI.

 

[Apex360]

Tikka T3 Lite, I'm able to get around here for $550. Then pay the extra $100 to get it threaded. The Savage 10 Precision Carbine I can get around $750, and is already threaded. Though I haven't heard much about factory Savages, everyone seems to have theirs pretty after market tuned. Out of the box are they pretty close to Tikka's? Also I hear Savage CS is much better than the Beretta support in the US for dealing with Tikka?

Savage would be 1:9 instead of 1:8, so I'd drop to 69gr ammo. I would prefer a 1:8 but there aren't any Savages stock like that.

I have a Savage axis, but have never had a Savage 10 model though i have shot them. Savages are also a great out of the box rifle for the most part. The action is pretty stiff compared to the Tikka. The Tikka action is hard to beat in this price range, it runs as smooth as butter. One of the best stock actions i've ever ran out of the box. Though the accuracy is outstanding straight out of the box with the Savage, I have to give the best accuracy between the two to the Tikka. The Savages accu-trigger is awesome and the Tikka's is really good as well, but I can't decide which I like better.
This is my 2cents. Hope it helps a bit.

 

[R Moran]

I agree with you, but the OP wants to run his suppressor on it. I'm sure either way he chooses will have or can have threads for QD Suppressor.

I don't know if the Saker is direct thread or needs an adapter. But,

I had an AR barrel from a very well respected custom barrel maker that had the threads cut so far out that it would've caused a baffle strike.
The amount of time I've been dealing with the issue, and trying to get a replacement has been ridiculous. I coulda just had a a good smith cut the thread properly and be done with it.

I spoke to Dave Sams about threading a Buckmark barrel for a Innovative Ordnance 22 can..direct thread on. It was thread a factory barrel or a TacSol,,,he wanted me to send him the can with the gun, and he would match the threads exactly. He noted many of the threads on the suppressor are off.
I understand this is why Surefire uses adapters.

I don't have the experience or knowledge that many here do, that why I'm here, but if I were looking for a new precision rifle to run a suppressor on...I would just plan on have it threaded by a good smith, who understands its for a suppressor and not a flash hider or brake.

If you can get a SPR for 1200...that's the way I'd go...pretty happy with the one I have in the safe now. My other one drove nails, but it did it 2 feet to the left..

Bob

 

[shootin]

Weren't the SIG SSGs around $1500? I would check those out along with the SPR.

If you want an aftermarket chassis then a Tikka and swap out the factory stock... Which is crap but the rest of the rifle is beautiful.

 

[littlepod]

Wow, thanks everyone for your feedback. If I were to get a .308 I think the options of SSG and FN SPR or the Tikka T3 CTR are all pretty damn good options. I have a Saker 556 that uses their own quick detach flash hider or muzzle brake, it threads on 1/2x28 so I was hoping to get something that I can just get my flash hider mounted, and then be good to go with mounting the suppressor when I wanted to use it. Baffle strikes are what scare me the most, so I want to make sure that whoever threads my barrel, will get it threaded properly and mount the QD mount on it correctly so that when I use the suppressor, I'm not going to have to worry about baffle strikes.

I spoke to Eurooptic, it looks like almost all the Tikka's in .223 they can get are on a few month back order and are also 1/10 twist. Also Tikka doesn't have a 1/2x28 option, it's all the metric thread, so at that point I might as well just find a non threaded and find a gunsmith to do it. If I go with Tikka, it'd mean a Tikka T3 Varmint for around $800, and then a $120-200 threading job to find a reliable gunsmith who won't damage the crown and make sure threads are concentric. Puts me at about a $1000. Which kind of ruins the $ for $ value in what Tikka offers. Tikka also used to offer a Scout CTR .223 model, and I might be able to keep looking to find one used. Seen them go for around $650.

At this point, I think I'm going to just go with the new Savage Precision Carbine 20" barrel, 8lbs unloaded, and comes threaded for $750. Take the saved money and invest it into a future .308.

Thanks again for everyone's feedback. I've been taking everything into consideration and spending my evenings after work just looking and looking.

 

[Apex360]

Either way you choose to go, you will not be disappointed. These are some fine rifles. Best of luck and let us know what you get.

 

[scotharr]

Lot's of great feedback, I'll just comment on the 223 vs 308 decision. With the right bullet (80 grain berger, SMK, or AMAX), the 223REM is every bit the equal of the 308WIN in the accuracy & wind drift department: out to 700-800 yards. We shoot 500 yd and 1000 yd F-class matches every weekend and the 223REM wins the matches at least as often as the 308WIN. Now, a 9-twist 223REM barrel is not going to cut it. you will need an 8-twist or faster barrel to make use of any of the really good 80 grain long-range bullets. The 223REM can also perform well at 1K ....IF.... you use the 90gr Berger VLD(7-twist required). But, you never said anything about shooting that far.

For your stated goals, I'd recommend a 1:7.7 to 1:8 twist 223REM. Also, Tikkas are nice actions but you will find a LOT more aftermarket parts for a Remington 700 and I'd go that route.

Regards,
Scott

PS. We just shot a 1000 yard F-Class match last weekend. On day 2 my 308WIN had the winning score of 393/400 and my 11-yr old, using 90 VLDs, got second with a score of 389/400. Virtually all the adults he beat were using 308WINs. So, even at 1K, the 223REM can do well....but the 308WIN is a safer bet at that distance.

 

[littlepod]

Lot's of great feedback, I'll just comment on the 223 vs 308 decision. With the right bullet (80 grain berger, SMK, or AMAX), the 223REM is every bit the equal of the 308WIN in the accuracy & wind drift department: out to 700-800 yards. We shoot 500 yd and 1000 yd F-class matches every weekend and the 223REM wins the matches at least as often as the 308WIN. Now, a 9-twist 223REM barrel is not going to cut it. you will need an 8-twist or faster barrel to make use of any of the really good 80 grain long-range bullets. The 223REM can also perform well at 1K ....IF.... you use the 90gr Berger VLD(7-twist required). But, you never said anything about shooting that far.

For your stated goals, I'd recommend a 1:7.7 to 1:8 twist 223REM. Also, Tikkas are nice actions but you will find a LOT more aftermarket parts for a Remington 700 and I'd go that route.

Regards,
Scott

PS. We just shot a 1000 yard F-Class match last weekend. On day 2 my 308WIN had the winning score of 393/400 and my 11-yr old, using 90 VLDs, got second with a score of 389/400. Virtually all the adults he beat were using 308WINs. So, even at 1K, the 223REM can do well....but the 308WIN is a safer bet at that distance.

Thanks for the info... I was about to pull the trigger on the Savage Precision Carbine, but that 1 in 9 twist is still bugging me as I would like to be able to shoot my current stash of 75-77gr ammo. Ignoring my current ammo stash, for a range of 600 yards, is BlackHills 77gr OTM in a 1 in 8 going to perform better than the Black Hills 69gr OTM in a 1 in 9?

With everyone's feedback I am basically now converting this project to a precise < 600 yard bolt action to run my suppressor on. My PWS 16" 1 in 8 AR-15 has been putting in .7-1.0 moa groupings (center to center) at 100 yards using PPU 75gr. I was assuming that a bolt would be able to tighten up the groups a little bit.

I definitely want to get a .308 to push out longer ranges (again using factory ammo, don't have the space/wife approval to get into reloading). So I still will get one in the future. For now, looking at that .223 budget tack driver and suppressor host.

EDIT: 1 in 8 twist, threaded factory, there's the Ruger American Predator in .223 22" barrel. I have no idea how these perform. Everyone talks about Savages/Remington/Tikka, I am guessing due to the fact you can customize it with aftermarket stocks, rebarrelling, actions, etc, but as a stock rifle, would a ruger american suffice. For something that's $375 street price, I wouldn't assume it could really put in the accuracy/value of components for that little expense.

 

[R Moran]

I'm sure someone will let me know if I'm off base, but...I think you should choose the action you want first, then worry about extra's like threading. You can change triggers, stocks, barrels, add threading, etc. But, the action is the action, no changing that.

Not sure how much is out there for the Ruger yet, or smith willing to work on them. Most smiths on this site, seem more then willing to work on Remington. Winchester/FN and Savage. So, if it son't shoot outta the box, you can fix it.

I just put some rounds threw my older Winchester Coyote .223, my friend shot it, and now wants a 223 bolt gun. I think I'll end up re-barreling it though, as it don't seem to want to shoot, and like you, I don't reload. They are fun, & pleasant. I'll also add a Surefire adapter for my socom.

Bob

 

[berms03]

If you want to shoot at any range with a 223, you are going to need a barrel with at least a 1 in 8 twist, this way you can shoot the heavier bullets for further distance and can buck the wind better. You can easily modify a remington 700 AAC 20" barrel, new stock, trigger, decent glass, with scope and rings under 1500. You may want to check this out Sniper Central - Remington 700 Entry Package ,not a bad way to go for a beginner

 

[slm9s]

Its hard to spot misses at distances with a 223.
A 308 tactical rifle could double as a deer/elk rifle in a pinch, 223 isn't legal in some states. Some wouldn't use it even if it was legal.
If you've got a nice 223 AR, I'd get a 308 just to have some variety. Though if it were me I'd get a 260 or 6.5creed, less recoil and you could shoot to 1000+ should the opportunity arise.

 

[4Quangs]

Don't overlook the 308 Rem 700 Milspec with SS 5R barrel. Comes with HS Precision stock, optional threaded barrel; shoots better than 1 MOA out of the box. It looks good, feels good, shoots good and Less than $1200.

 

[berms03]

I have a 308 remy 700 5R and its a shooter, with the right load under 1/2 moa, I was able to shooter a 5 shot group at 550 yards under 1.5 inches, most of that luck but shows the guns potential. The stock however is just okay, and the X-Mark pro trigger is a piece of junk, get rid of it and replace it with a timney or jewell.

 

[valkyries]

Hi everyone, long time lurker, and just starting to get into more precision shooting and looking for a bolt action. I am no gunsmith so I don't think I'd like to get into something custom where I end up having to investigate what might be wrong with a barrel or headspacing or my action not being properly set right, so I just kind of want something that just works and works well. Local range nearby is only out to 200 yards, and I think every few months I'll go out and try out longer distances, if I'm mainly staying under 700 yards, should I just stick with the .223? Another bonus is that I have a 5.56 SAKER that I could run with the rifle (not a fan of running it on my AR-15 right now, so it kind of just sits)

Looking at ammo prices, I'm seeing decent results for the PPU 168gr ~75c a round so I was considering trying out a .308 rifle (I've only ever shot my AR-15) The PPU 75gr on my AR-15 shoots well and I've heard sub moa results from the 168gr.

Rifle will mainly be used at an outdoor range, which has a small hike, and some outdoor trips when I get to shoot > 200 yards. So weight wise, would prefer towards the general usage direction.

So I guess to summarize.

1. If <= 600 yards, worth going for a .308 vs .223?
2. Any problem running my bolt suppressed? Forums say that it might increase accuracy if anything? I didn't like how dirty it made my AR-15 and the blowback and ejection issues I was having.
3. Rifles that I've been thinking of would be Savage Precision Carbine, Savage FCP HS, One of the Tikka rifles? Not sure yet, as they have so many models to read up on. T3 lite for $528, or move up to the Super Varmint ~900?
4. Are there any custom rifle shops that will have ~$1500 ish rifle with something like the X-Ray chassis on it? And also good enough customer support where if it doesn't work, they can just fix it and not leave me wondering what might be wrong? Any custom rifle I'm seeing is always 3k+

Edit: I know for $1500 I can probably just buy my own stock, my own action, and figure all this out. But I'm more valuing my time and peace of mind over the cost. I rather have the professionals make it work and I just get to enjoy it

Thanks for the help and feedback.

I just put a bolt gun together with very similar goals. I did a lot of research and saving Here's what I came up with. Savage model 11 hog hunter in .308, 20" medium contour threaded barrel, swfa 3x15 scope, Burris two piece mount, Burris extreme tactical rings, mountain shooter sling, Harris 9-13" bipod, and triad stock pack. I've only had it to the range twice so have not done a lot of shooting yet. Best 5 shot group so far was about two inches, at 100 meters. But I know its me and not the gun since I'm just getting things dialed in. I spent more on the scope ($600) than the gun. Probably have around $1200 in it. I am really pleased with everything so far and would recommend any of these products. I could probably leave it as it is and be happy forever but... now I'm thinking about a one piece mount, aftermarket stock (similar style to retain iron sights), and new bottom metal for a ten round detachable mag. That would put me over $1500. When is it going to stop!? I guess that depends on you.