155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA ** Now .6-.7 MOA**

03psd

03psd

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 27, 2006
567
33
Oklahoma
#1
Am I the only person who can't seem to get Lapua 155gr Scenars to shoot worth a damn? Today I tried to work up a Varget load based on what I read here: 45.5, 46.0, 46.5gr Varget Federal brass CCI200 primers, 2.85" COAL. None of these loads shot well. All were 1.5" MOA. So bad I didnt have anything to work from to take a next step.

I really want these bullets to shoot well but I havent found anything that shoots better than 42.8gr 4064 under a 168gr SMK loaded to 2.91". I am perfectly happy if my gun doesnt like boutique bullets but I want to be sure my loads arent what's queering the deal.

Its a 700 LTR.

Suggestions?

<span style="color: #FF0000">ETA: Thanks all, I took your advice and loaded some more starting at 46.5gr Varget and working up to 48.0 I loaded them long 2.91" COAL. Between 47.3 and 47.5 the magic happened. My 5 shot groups shrank to between .6-.7". I did try some loaded with 47.7gr but I was getting a heavy bolt lift and some flattening of the primers. The groups also started to open up as well. Never did shoot the 48.0 gr loads.

I plan a little more fine tuning to see if I can get them down to .5" but I am encouraged. Any ideas on the velocity with 47.5gr Varget and 155 Scenar out of a 20" 1:12 barrel?

Thanks to all for the direction. You were right, as usual...</span>
 
#3
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

When I'm ready to reload for my SPS-T, I plan to try 155 Scenars. My target powder charge will be based around Dan Newberry's optimum charge weight experiments.


<span style="font-weight: bold">308 Winchester using IMR 4895</span>
<span style="color: #3333FF">155 grain bullet, 45.6 grains</span>
168 grain bullet, 43.6 grains
175 grain bullet, 42.4 grains
178 grain bullet, 42.0 grains
<span style="font-weight: bold">
.308 Winchester using Varget</span>
<span style="color: #3333FF">155 grain bullet, 47.8 grains</span>
168 grain bullet, 46.0 grains
175 grain bullet, 45.0 grains (an all around favorite)
180 grain bullet, 44.1 grains
200 grain bullet, low node 41.5 grains (10 twist barrel)
200 grain bullet, high node, 43.1 grains (10 twist barrel)
 
#4
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

03,

Nope. Never got them to run in my .308. It only likes heavies, the heavier the better. I know few other folks who had the same results.

HTH,
DocB
 
#5
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

Run them fast. On the Chronograph, they didn't shoot well until they were at least 2900fps. If you want to stick with that powder, speed them up. I use 46.2g of Reloader 15. Gets me at least 2950 depending on the temp.
 
#8
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

I was running 48 grs of Varget in Win cases for a bit over 2900 from my 26" FN, nothing to write home about at 300 (1 moa), but an absolute laser beyond that, it was wierd. In my 24" A3G, I never could get them to shoot, more like patterns. I did not play with seating depth, as I wanted to use them in both guns.
 
#9
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

I'm running 47gr varget in Federal and WCC brass. 2.815 oal. Haven't played with seating depths yet. But will do sub moa if I'm doing my part. 26" bbl.
 
#10
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

I am one of those who happen to use the heavy load of 47.8 gr. In my gun (Remmy M40 VNC) these things just flat out perform. From a typical box of 20, I get on 5-round group near 0.35", 2 groups near 0.45" and one group near 0.65".

{Std disclaimer about working up slowly watching pressure signs along the way as this load is right on the edge of sane pressures. Also note, you might not be able to find the accuracy node if you make your sweep in 0.5 gr increments.}

Note: I use Win brass and CCI primers and an OAL of 2.943" (not magazine length) or 0.015 from the lands.
 
#11
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

A couple 10-round groups from 100 yards.

Factory Rem varmint barrel, cut/braked.
45gr AA2230C, 2800 fps.
OAL 2.81" to fit magazine, jumping .15" to lands.

Copyof308208_155100yds.jpg


Img_8800.jpg




A couple 5-shot groups at 560 yards,
Img_9094.jpg
 
#14
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

how do you get 48grs of varget in a case and still put the bullet in there? I loaded up some with 46 grs and put the bullet in there and heard all kinds of crunching going on. are you all using compressed charges to get the best accuracy? I am going back out to the range tommorrow with 46.5 of varget. Should I start working up in .1 increments or is it ok to go up like 1/2 grains? Also, I am using an forester match grade bullet seater and when I put the bullets in the cases it leaves a ring on the area it comes in contact with the bullet because of hitting the powder in the cases. Will this cause accuracy problems? Thanks,RG
 
#15
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

I know a Remington 700 bought new in the box that throws flyers with every ammo ever fed it--if the group isn't a full MOA or bigger. That includes Lapua 155s fired from Lapua brass, weighed powder charges and the whole shebang. It will do a few shots into about 3/4-MOA, but the 10-round groups are always around 1.5 MOA.

Even with FGMM. Most groups are round by the time you fire 10. Some of the 5-round groups are two touching, and the other three touching an inch away. Two shooters, too, and they get nice round groups with a less-accurate rifle that does an honest 1 MOA and no better--no two-grouping like that blasted Remmie.

To load to the lands, the Lapua bullet would be seated about .15 into the neck.

The owner is turning it into a 6.5 Creedmore.

So no, I'd say it just might not be you.
 
#17
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how do you get 48grs of varget in a case and still put the bullet in there? </div></div>

The powder is half way up the neck, the bullet goes crunch--big time (and its 47.8 gr; by 48 gr the bullet does not shoot in my gun and prssure signs are present.)
 
#18
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

i have yet to try the scenars, but my model 700 loves the 155 amax. infact it out shoots any 168 load i have shot so far. planning on starting to work up a load for that amax, to outshoot factory load that does so well in my rifle
 
#19
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how do you get 48grs of varget in a case and still put the bullet in there? I loaded up some with 46 grs and put the bullet in there and heard all kinds of crunching going on. are you all using compressed charges to get the best accuracy? I am going back out to the range tommorrow with 46.5 of varget. Should I start working up in .1 increments or is it ok to go up like 1/2 grains? Also, I am using an forester match grade bullet seater and when I put the bullets in the cases it leaves a ring on the area it comes in contact with the bullet because of hitting the powder in the cases. Will this cause accuracy problems? Thanks,RG </div></div>

Thats the same issue I had using Lapua brass and Varget..In my stock Howa, the 155's seem to shoot best at 2650fpd -2700fps with either Varget or RL-15.

The Lapua factory load of 155grns shoots very well from the same rifle and I chrono'd those at 2700fps...Maybe some barrels have a velocity sweet spot?

Regards,

Peter
 
#21
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

Mic. your barrel: Scenars like a tight bore. Some factory 700's won't shoot them well.

+1 for more powder: I use 45.9 RE15 in Lapua brass.

Seating depth probably won't be a big issue in getting them to shoot well, but velocity probably will.
 
#22
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

My LTR loved em...

48gr IMR4895, WIN/BHA brass, fed 210


My current rifle loves em as well

47.5gr Varget
WIN brass
210 primer
2.86 (2.4 from ogive) (feeds well in AICS mags)

gets me over 2900fps with zero pressure signs IN MY RIFLE!
 
#23
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how do you get 48grs of varget in a case and still put the bullet in there? I loaded up some with 46 grs and put the bullet in there and heard all kinds of crunching going on. are you all using compressed charges to get the best accuracy? I am going back out to the range tommorrow with 46.5 of varget. Should I start working up in .1 increments or is it ok to go up like 1/2 grains? Also, I am using an forester match grade bullet seater and when I put the bullets in the cases it leaves a ring on the area it comes in contact with the bullet because of hitting the powder in the cases. Will this cause accuracy problems? Thanks,RG </div></div>

You need a lot more powder than that. And I've never heard any crunching, although I'm not worried about whether it's a compressed load or not. I got 2899 FPS with 47 grains. I'd like to push it some more as others here have done.
 
#24
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

I briefly tried 155 Bergers in my PSS with nothing under 1 MOA, and ended up going back to 175 SMK's. I think I'm going to give it another try, but with the new 155 SMK Palma bullets.
 
#25
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

In my experience with the 155 scenars, they like to be pushed hard, do the CKA charge wieght method, keep adding powder until you reach pressure signs, then back off .2, this has worked with every bullet powder brass primer combo I have tried.

I currently shoot
45.9 RL15
Lapua Brass, 2 thou neck tension
CCI BR2 primers
HbN coated
2.86 COAL
 
#26
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA

I am going to try and start inching the powder charge up and setting the bullet out a little farther in the case. This should help me out pretty good with getting them up to speed.
 
#30
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA ** Now .6-.7 MOA**

not scenars, but mine shoots Hornady 155 A-max's excellently at what they call a max velocity of 2850. i have yet to try scenars, but if i do i will post my info
 
#31
Re: 155 Scenars: 1.5 MOA ** Now .6-.7 MOA**

glad you got it worked out. i need to get some more scenars and do another round of load development for my rifle and see if I can dial them down and keep it at mag length. single load doesn't do me any good.

I also need to work them up with Federal brass so I am not burning up my Winchester or loosing it in the field.
 
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