Anyone mess around with a 16” 6.5 creedmoor? I keep eyeballing a craddock 16” with rifle gas and it seems like it would make a really handy deer rifle. I’m curious how bad the port erosion would be and how bad it will beat brass.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
I have both 2 6.5 CM's and 8 308's ...so I know what they are capable of ...if you handload, and chamber your own rifles, use heavy high BC bullets, 9 and 8 twist barrels, the 308 can easily out perform the 6.5 CM.6.5 creedmoor is still ballistically superior to 308, even out of a 16" barrel.
Grind it into a fine powder...
I have both 2 6.5 CM's and 8 308's ...so I know what they are capable of ...if you handload, and chamber your own rifles, use heavy high BC bullets, 9 and 8 twist barrels, the 308 can easily out perform the 6.5 CM.
You need hybrid cases to bring the CM back into contention. Then it's pretty good again. I use the both, but dropped the 6.5 CM for awhile, because it couldn't keep up...until I acquired hybrid cases, and run high pressure handloads with RL 26, so now it's back in the lineup...plus a new 26" Bartlein 6.5 CM barrel, ready to go.
Drugs are cheaper and easier to find. Just sayin.Lines of RL26? It's making more sense now.
RL26 ran some wildly fast numbers for me in 6.5 with no pressure signs, although out of a 22” barrel with a Sandman L.How do you run high pressure in 6.5CM with RL26?
Could you elaborate on these hybrid 6.5 cases? And where you are acquiring them from. I'd like to seem yours.
What powder are you running to get 2750 with a 168 out of a 16" barrel ?Nope not in a 16" barrel...my 6.5 CM in AR is 24".
But I have a 16" barreled 6 lb 2 oz 308 AR 10 that is a delight to shoot and carry.
It is also accurate, and fast with the right powders. Running 168eldm at 2756 fps with .5" accuracy.
Made with magnesium upper, titanium bolt carrier, titanium muzzle brake, carbon fiber hand guard, but not a pencil barrel... But a light fluted 16" Wilson Combat Recon.
Running 155s in photo at 2813 fps, but went to 2922 fps, but that load was inaccurate, settled on 2877 for the 155 Palma. But the 168, 169, & 177 are the accuracy bullets. Or 208s at 2442 fps, The 168 eldm at 2756 ave velocity is good to 1200 yds...
And it doesn't beat up brass.
You could build a 6.5 CM, AR 10 with the same components, the hole in the barrel being smaller will add a few ounces.
I have a couple thousand, and I purchased the last 300 available...for now.Could you elaborate on these hybrid 6.5 cases? And where you are acquiring them from. I'd like to see yours.
SameWhat powder are you running to get 2750 with a 168 out of a 16" barrel ?
The best I've ever done with a 16" gasser and 168's is at least 200 fps slower than that.
So does the steel case head provide more powder capacity?I have a couple thousand, and I purchased the last 300 available...for now.
I use them for 8.6 blackout, 6.5 CM, 308 Win, and 358 Win.
Here are some pics, and one string of 308 Win 200 gr SMK .715 BC at 2874 fps ave, probably out shoots your factory 6.5 CM, in every category, and they have been up to 2952 fps in the long barrel.
So that's why the cases are needed to bring my anemic 6.5 CM back in contention with the 308, using 150gr SMK or 153 Atip bullets.
Yes...So does the steel case head provide more powder capacity?
RL26 ran some wildly fast numbers for me in 6.5 with no pressure signs, although out of a 22” barrel with a Sandman L.
Worked up load was 2850 with a 140 Hybrid. Book max shot 2925 although the primer looked like an accident waiting to happen. Berger stated over the phone their max was 2917 FPS with a 140 with a 24” barrel, but real world came out faster. Probably temp related - RL26 is very temp sensitive and I live in Louisiana.
Data was direct from Berger off the phone and some of it was close to 6.5 PRC territory. I think it let you stuff 10-20% more powder in than H4350 while remaining within Capstone’s published (sort of) data.
It’s a slow powder though - surprised it worked well with a 16” barrel. Accuracy was mediocre compared to the one hole groups Varget and 4350 were capable of - ultimately decided I didn’t need all that speed and I could just reach for a bigger rifle if I wanted the horsepower.
But back to the 6.5 vs 308 debate - I’m building an 18” 6.5 right now, the numbers substantially favor 6.5 for the range at least. A 16” 308 might hit harder, but you don’t need the extra bullet weight for deer. You’ll want a can or double hearing protection though. Lots of unburnt powder traveling out of that barrel.
For your information:You may have reached some pressure due to chamber shape/size/whatever but that isn't "high pressure" as it pertains to what @45-90 is doing. It's pretty difficult to reach 70kPSI+ in 6.5CM with 140's, traditional brass, and RL26. Even adding two grains extra doesn't get you there.
I'd be pretty concerned running 70kPSI in an AR10. Mauser actions have the safety margin, AR10's don't.
For your information:
The 16" 308 168 eldm at 2756 fps is .5 gr under max in the Speer loading manual, and their fastest powder listed.
It only loses less the 16 fps per inch compared to 16" and 24" they are not hybrid cases.
The hybrid case loads can actually handle and is designed to handle 80,000 psi and will run there for the military in full auto weapons.
Some Hybrids loads reach close to 70,000 psi and operate just fine there, and hybrid cases have more capacity for powder. Some have been loaded 4 times and snug primer pockets,.. with regular dies.
My equalizing 308 load for 6.5 CM RL 26 153 gr Atip is 2953 fps from a 24" barrel at my COAL, with my chamber, and hybrid case capacity.
QL says I'm at 67,593 psi, but I believe it to be right at 70,000 psi.
Many of todays magnums run at 65,000 psi with larger square inch surface area for more bolt thrust on the action.
I run the hybrid cases by the hundreds in various calibers. They offer a significant improvement in performance.
My standard 308 Lapua brass long barreled load offers over 3600 ft/lbs but hybrid case has reached 4000 ft- lbs of energy out of a 308 case and the 6.5 CM hybrid can reach over 2900 ft-lb.of energy.
You don't have to do any of it, I don't care, but the information and the availability to do so is.
So yes the 6.5 CM in normal factory, & handloads loads is way behind the 308 Win cased handloads in performance with modern components, 9, and 8 twist barrels starting at 200 gr .715 BC SMK and moving to the 230 gr Atip...then add the hybrid cases for and even greater increase in performance, where the 6.5 CM benefits the most, where RL 26 and hybrid cases and 2 high BC bullets 150 SMK and 153 Atip bring it back to compete with my 308s..and why I have so many 308s.
My 16” Criterion 6.5 CM AR10 is very pleasant to shoot. It wears a BCM Mod 1 comp.Hope you’ll be shooting it suppressed. 16” large frames are for masochists.
My rifle gassed 16” chrome lined Criterion is great. Relatively easy to reach out to 1k with 140gr+ ELDs. 2520 -2550 fps with factory 143gr ELD-X depending on lot/temperature.Anyone mess around with a 16” 6.5 creedmoor? I keep eyeballing a craddock 16” with rifle gas and it seems like it would make a really handy deer rifle. I’m curious how bad the port erosion would be and how bad it will beat brass.
Me too. Got it for the weight, but what a piece of garbage. Failures to extract all over the place.I built one using a faxon big gunner barrel. I liked the size and weight savings it offered. I will not ever be buying a Faxon barrel again though. The chamber is rough as hell and overall just not a nice barrel, shouldve sent it back immediately but impatience bit me in the ass. I have a 20" proof stainless to replace it eventually. Go 16", it's fun.
You don't.How do you fit a 230 atip in a 2.80in coal AR10 magazine ?
Which ones? The 185 jugger / hybrid is probably the the best 308 bullet out there but once you go above that in BC (and grains) you loose way too much velocity to take advantage of the higher BC.The newer bullets for .30 cal with more modern shaping and high BCs really brought the .308 back in capability, though self-spotting isn’t as easy. When I eventually get down to loading for my 16” .308, I’ll be looking at some of the newer bullets for sure.
I’ve been eyeballing 168gr and 178gr ELD-Ms, 169gr SMKs, 155gr Scenars, 175gr TMKs, 168gr Bergers, 185gr Bergers.Which ones? The 185 jugger / hybrid is probably the the best 308 bullet out there but once you go above that in BC (and grains) you loose way too much velocity to take advantage of the higher BC.
You are also going to get into OAL and mag length issues with the longer bullets.
That's my point. If the argument is that 308 is superior at range to a 6.5 creed out of a gasser because of the 200gr+ 30cal projectile then I beg to disagree.You don't.