F T/R Competition 168 Berger Target Hybrid

[BC 6.8]

I finally found some of the 168 Hybrids to work with. Found a load with IMR4064 that got me to 2915 fps in my 28" barreled F-TR rifle with no signs of pressure. Two 5 shot groups at 200 yds (longest range close to me) today averaged 1.15" and I haven't adjusted seating depth yet. With a little more tuning, I think I can get it to shoot 1/2 MOA. If JBM ballistics is right, this load only has 25" of drift at 600 yds and 80" of drift at 1,000 yds with a 10 mph crosswind. That should be able to hang with a 185 LRBT running at 2875 fps or a 200 Hybrid running 2625 fps. I had another accuracy node that would get me to 2955 fps, but the bolt was a little sticky.

My question is who else is using these bullets for long range? They seem to have good demand because it has taken a few months to find some. I really like the bullet because it can run well with alot heavier bullets with less recoil.

 

[gstaylorg]

I've been playing around with them for the exact same reasons you mentioned. The short bearing surface allows them to be pushed pretty hard. However, I think for most people your velocities would seem well on the fast side (2955 fps for a 168 Hybrid, 2875 fps for a 185). Pressure-wise, I was seeing high end velocities just slightly over 2900 fps with H4895 out of a 27" barrel, but Quickload was predicting pressures for that load well beyond what I felt necessary. Even though I wasn't seeing "visible" pressure signs, I backed the load for that rifle down a bit and it's currently running about 2825 fps. The amount of wind resistance I gave up by doing that wasn't really all that much and the load shoots very well. I suspect the brass will last a bit longer as well.

If you're going to run the 168s at those velocities, I would recommend using Lapua Palma brass. It should give you longer brass life. Also, I suspect you're not going to see a huge difference in felt recoil as compared to the 185s. My 185 Varget load is running 2770 fps out of a 30" barrel and I have not noticed any major difference in felt recoil between it and the 168s. It may be there, bit it's slight.

The major advantage of the 168 Hybrid in my mind would be for those that don't have chambers with freebores long enough to load bullets like the 185 (or longer). The 168 Hybrid has a very good BC, and doesn't require excessive freebore to load it to decent velocity. For that reason, it ought to be a great choice for LR shooting with a wide range of rifles that may not be optimal for some of the heavier (longer) high BC bullets currently in favor.

One thing I found improved the performance of the 168s was pointing them. On paper, the meplat on the 168 is only slightly larger than that of the 185 Juggernaut (.064" vs .062"). However, they appear much larger to the eye for the various lots those bullets that I have, and the 168 meplats are not nearly as uniform as the 185s. A little length sorting and pointing fixes that right up and makes a noticeable difference on the target, even at distances as close as 300 yd.

 

[BC 6.8]

The load I'm choosing to go with is running 2915 fps in 90° F temps. It is 0.8 gr lighter than the load that ran 2955 fps and had sticky bolt lift. I'm using Lapua large primer brass on its second firing. Hopefully the lighter load will not be too hard on brass. I put the references to the 185 LRBT @ 2875 fps just for reference because when I ran JBM ballistics, it said the two bullets would be about equal for wind drift. My rifle only has 0.090" freebore, so that is another reason I like the 168s. I haven't had the opportunity to shoot the 168s long range yet, but if I see vertical issues I may get some pointing dies.

 

[captcoop]

I finally found some of the 168 Hybrids to work with. Found a load with IMR4064 that got me to 2915 fps in my 28" barreled F-TR rifle with no signs of pressure. Two 5 shot groups at 200 yds (longest range close to me) today averaged 1.15" and I haven't adjusted seating depth yet. With a little more tuning, I think I can get it to shoot 1/2 MOA. If JBM ballistics is right, this load only has 25" of drift at 600 yds and 80" of drift at 1,000 yds with a 10 mph crosswind. That should be able to hang with a 185 LRBT running at 2875 fps or a 200 Hybrid running 2625 fps. I had another accuracy node that would get me to 2955 fps, but the bolt was a little sticky.

My question is who else is using these bullets for long range? They seem to have good demand because it has taken a few months to find some. I really like the bullet because it can run well with alot heavier bullets with less recoil.

What was your charge weight. ?

 

[captcoop]

The reason I ask , I was using IMR 4895, i have several pounds of 4064 available, and some 168 hybrids left over for testing

 

[BC 6.8]

captcoop - I loaded from 43.4 gr to 46.2 gr with IMR4064. The top end is where I was getting sticky bolt lift. I have settled on a load of 45.4 gr for now. I still need to test loads 0.2 gr on either side to see if they are the same or better for accuracy. When I first loaded the 168 Hybrids I was only looking to get to 2850 fps, so if my final load is a little bit lighter than the load I've settled on for now I'm OK with that. One other note, I'm loading out to about 2.920" COAL. Also, my load is more than Berger's recommended max, so work up to it.

 

[l115a3]

Based on my tested, I also can felt less recoil of 168 Hybrid than 185 LRBT when fired out of my 24" FTR rifle.


My ftr rifle was 24" Barrel 1:10"tw with chamber spec .343"nk , .098" fb , 1-30

My best load was 185 LRBT @ 2,560 fps
SD 3.4 , ES < 9

 

[captcoop]

captcoop - I loaded from 43.4 gr to 46.2 gr with IMR4064. The top end is where I was getting sticky bolt lift. I have settled on a load of 45.4 gr for now. I still need to test loads 0.2 gr on either side to see if they are the same or better for accuracy. When I first loaded the 168 Hybrids I was only looking to get to 2850 fps, so if my final load is a little bit lighter than the load I've settled on for now I'm OK with that. One other note, I'm loading out to about 2.920" COAL. Also, my load is more than Berger's recommended max, so work up to it.

Thanks for the tip, I will be trying 4064 next weekend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[avidflyer]

I finally found some of the 168 Hybrids to work with. Found a load with IMR4064 that got me to 2915 fps in my 28" barreled F-TR rifle with no signs of pressure. Two 5 shot groups at 200 yds (longest range close to me) today averaged 1.15" and I haven't adjusted seating depth yet. With a little more tuning, I think I can get it to shoot 1/2 MOA. If JBM ballistics is right, this load only has 25" of drift at 600 yds and 80" of drift at 1,000 yds with a 10 mph crosswind. That should be able to hang with a 185 LRBT running at 2875 fps or a 200 Hybrid running 2625 fps. I had another accuracy node that would get me to 2955 fps, but the bolt was a little sticky.

My question is who else is using these bullets for long range? They seem to have good demand because it has taken a few months to find some. I really like the bullet because it can run well with alot heavier bullets with less recoil.

What do you think of these vs the 155 full bores? Been using the 155's the last 4 matches and really like them in a 1/13 with the Bisley. Shot high master with them in all matches.

 

[XTR]

What do you think of these vs the 155 full bores? Been using the 155's the last 4 matches and really like them in a 1/13 with the Bisley. Shot high master with them in all matches.

At 600 or 1000?

 

[BC 6.8]

What do you think of these vs the 155 full bores? Been using the 155's the last 4 matches and really like them in a 1/13 with the Bisley. Shot high master with them in all matches.

I have not tested the 155.5 fullbores. I tried the 155 Sierra Palma with Varget and did not get good groupings in my rifle, but I have an 1/11 twist.

 

[chefcam864]

Blake, I wonder if there really is much difference in felt recoil between the 168 running 2,900 and the 185 running 2,750? On paper, that 168 sounds terrific. My old bbl wouldn't shoot them, but I never tried them in the Lilja. My rifle is chambered specifically for the 185, and that bullet shoots better than anything else I've run through it. As a matter of fact, I'd compare the 185 Jug to the 168 SMK in terms of easily attainable accuracy. I have some 185's laying around the house you can try. I'd be surprised if your rifle didn't shoot like a house afire with em, and you could shoot them side by side with the 168's to gauge the difference in recoil. IMO, if there is no, or little, difference in recoil, then the 185 would be superior. It has a better BC, is slightly less expensive, and easy to make shoot.

 

[BC 6.8]

Blake, I wonder if there really is much difference in felt recoil between the 168 running 2,900 and the 185 running 2,750? On paper, that 168 sounds terrific. My old bbl wouldn't shoot them, but I never tried them in the Lilja. My rifle is chambered specifically for the 185, and that bullet shoots better than anything else I've run through it. As a matter of fact, I'd compare the 185 Jug to the 168 SMK in terms of easily attainable accuracy. I have some 185's laying around the house you can try. I'd be surprised if your rifle didn't shoot like a house afire with em, and you could shoot them side by side with the 168's to gauge the difference in recoil. IMO, if there is no, or little, difference in recoil, then the 185 would be superior. It has a better BC, is slightly less expensive, and easy to make shoot.

I think the 168 Hybrids will work better with my chamber, and I have 300 of them. I may try some 185 LRBTs after I burn through the Hybrids. I don't plan to use Bergers on anything but long range because of the cost. I doubt there is much difference in recoil between the two bullets with comparable loads. It would be interesting to see what kind of pressures my 168 Hybrid load vs your 185 LRBT load.