168 FGMM Group Sizes?

[LoneWolfUSMC]

What kind of groupings (5-shot or more) are you guys getting out of 168gr Federal GMM from a stock Remington chamber/barrel?

I ask because up until now I have been shooting hand loads and getting reasonable accuracy from my rig. For training yesterday I had to run 168gr FGMM (our duty round) and accuracy was no better than 1.25" at 100 yards. This was the same no matter if it was a 5 round or 10 round group. One of the other shooters was running an LTR and seemed to get about the same accuracy. Our custom M70's seemed to be doing a little better.

At the end of the day I broke out some of my hand loads to check myself and they shot at about 3/4" which is what I would expect for a shitty shooting day.

The strange part about it is that the first group I fired for the day with the Federal measured just about 1" center to center with three rounds grouping almost through the same hole. This also makes me wonder if it was just my performance on that day.

I was also coming up on 200 rounds between cleanings, so hopefully next time with a clean bore it will group better.

So those of you with stock Remmy's...how's FGMM treating you?

 

[Metalhead0483]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

Huh, I've never had a problem with the 168 FGMM. It shoot's maybe a little worse than my handloads out of my SPS Tac. It's consistantly sub MOA anyway...

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

This was all from lot# 121Y655. Maybe it was just a "monday" or "friday" lot...

or, maybe I just couldn't shoot for shit that day?

 

[akrapovic]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

It's has always been good for me, sub moa, mostly 1/2moa at 100yds.

 

[nolo263]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

I have shot in competition with my crusader and 168 fed. match a group measuring under .1 but most my groups with the 168 gold medal is in the .2's to .3's.. Usually when I use this rifle and load combo for benchrest comps I can shoot the whole match of 25 rounds in under .5 pretty easy and that is overlapping all 5 targets and measuring.

 

[GasLight]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

My best group to date with 168 FGMM in a 1:10 twist broughton is .212" So, I think the ammo is GTG, I can't shoot that type of group very often but I know it isn't the rifle or ammo's fault LOL... I do know some chambers or barrels seem to like different loads though, so I am not sure FGMM will work for every setup out there, but from what I can see it is pretty consistent

DD

 

[NaHa]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

Could be a bum lot, even though I've not yet found FGMM that won't shoot extremely good in any of my .308 rifles.

Several years ago, I had a scheduled match and didn't make time to put enough handloads together (my preferred 175 SMK, etc.) so I tossed a couple of boxes of FGMM 168 in the rig at 0600 and sallied forth.

This match began at 200y and went out from there. Using a factory original Rem 700 VSSF, I had a perfect score, through the 600y stage. (I was leading the whole thing, I coulda been a contender, I coulda been somebody!!)

Unfortunately, the 168 ammo (and my SWAG comeups to account for differences between it and the 175 handloads) fell off rather dramatically at 800, 900, and 1,000y. (At 900 and especially 1,000y, I was getting the dreaded keyholes).

I cite this boring anecdote because FGMM 168 has been bery, bery good to me over the years, within its limits.

But, it's certainly possible you got a stinker lot. Regarding supposedly comparable match ammo from other manufacturers, I found significant differences from lot to lot. Winchester Supreme Match, Black Hills, and Remington Premium, for example. Ya gotta test those and then if you find a good lot, buy more of it. With FGMM, I stopped testing lots, and just use whatever I have on hand. Mebbe I'll keep an eye out for the lot number you mention.

 

[mcm308]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

My Remington 700VS when I 1st purchased it would consistently do .3-.5 groups at 100.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

I don't usually make any decisions based on one range session. I will keep at it and maybe buy some newer FGMM to make sure I get a different Lot.

If it IS a bad lot, we definitly need to pull it, or at least not shoot it in my gun since the Winchesters seemed to shoot it just fine.

Like I said.....maybe I was just having a bad day.

 

[dmg308]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

Most of the pss rifles I've seen were around an inch consistently with GMM.I believe most of it was the long throat from remington.A few had the barrel set back rechambered and recrowned.That seemed to bring them around .6-.8 guns consistently.These were all LE guys that did'nt reload but as in your case if you can develop a load and seating depth the rifle likes the work is probably not necesary.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

The problem is I will continue to reload MY practice ammo, but my "Training" ammo and "Duty" ammo is FGMM.

I also have the problem of my rifle's current favorite load shoots 1" high compared to the FGMM. So now I have to zero for FGMM and re-write my ballistic tables for my hand loads to adjust off of the FGMM zero. Not a big deal, but irritating.

I will probably call up Geoff Corn next week and see if it's financially feasible to have my barrel setback and chambered for FGMM. I have been looking to get it cut back to 20" and threaded anyway, but if it's going to cost me the same labor as a re-barrel then I don't see any reason to go through that with a 1K round barrel.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

If it helps....just run my targets through "On Target" and shows a 0.621 MOA and 0.577 MOA with 168gr GMM yesterday at 100m - both 5 shot groups. Ammo looks like Lot number SQY433, but the stamp is a bit smudged.

My best on this lot to date was 0.417 MOA

It has been really consistent and performs well out to 600yds

.....These figures are more a comment on me than the ammo/rifle which I am sure are capable of better )

I've just restocked with GMM 168Gr...Lot Number 121W516. Hope this is going to be OK!

 

[dmg308]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

With the set back you will still get thousands of rounds through it.Most of the guys here saw between 6-8k before they were finally rebarreled.I would be suprised if there was any real wear on a .308 barrel with 1k through it.You may have some carbon built up at the throat(GM carbon cleaner)or just needs a deep cleaning(I prefer chemicals to brushes).I would try that first as its free before exploring other options.

 

[chadg]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

Hello lonewolf
iget consistent half inch groups with gmm 168 with a savage 10 bell and carlson medalist stock, sss recoil lug ,sss over sized bolt handle, warne 0moa base, millet 30mm zee rings, w.o. 4-14x50 scope.
about 6 months ago i bought a case of gmm 168 from cheaper than dirt trying to save some money.when i started shooting this ammo my groups started going from consistent half moa 5 shot groups to over a inch.Needless to say iwas extremly concerned.I thought maybe copper build up.I cleaned the rifle complety but found no fouling of any sorts.next i inspected the cartriges and guess what. almost every round had copper shavings around the mouth of the case.You could see where the shavings had been there when the bullets were pressed.
I was totally amazed.
I contacted cheaper than dirt and federal. So far no response from either

 

[Turk]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

Definitely sub moa, bordering .75 moa out of factory rifles. Naturally better w/ customs!

 

[shawn_40312]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

My tightest groups so far were with 168's. 5 shot group measuring just under .5 at 100 yards. The rifle can shoot better than i can.

 

[BobM]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

My issue 700P and my personal LTR both go about 1/2-3/4" consistently with the Federal Match. However, that is for 3 round groups-I don't think I've tried a 5 rd group in quite a while.

 

[krink85]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

I dont know the size of the groups but at 100 I got small enough groups to bring the target home and show the wife. At 200 (longest range around here is 200) it shot alittle over MOA. I was happy enought with it to buy a few more rounds!

 

[jimbob]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

with a sps tactical I get .5 to .75

 

[Phylodog]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

Our HS Precision HTR rifles will shoot around .5MOA consistently with GMM 168's.

 

[diggler1833]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

The box of FGMM that I put through my 5R a couple of years ago averaged right around 1.5" at 200 meters. Black Hills 168gr averaged around 1" and I can get to around .75" with several various handloads.

 

[Terry Cross]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

LoneWolf,

We have seen many, many stock 700's shoot the GM308M rounds extremely good. Federal brass may be soft when reloading and the 168MK may not be the ultimate long range bullet but I'll be damned if I can find any commercial ammo that comes close to that load consistently, from lot to lot, over years of production. Whatever the hell they are doing on their loading machines, they are doing right.

I know your question was about "stock" rifles but I must throw in that I do not even trouble with handloading for any .308s I shoot prior to shipping. I totally trust that shit to shoot extremely well if the gun is healthy. I also know that agencies will not be reloading for their duty rifles. They could care less what 43.3 Varget and 175MK does. They have to shoot issue ammo so I feel double good about testing with the GM308M.

Maybe give it another chance at the range. Always possible your particular rifle may just hate the stuff. Also possible that your rifle needed cleaning. Remember that a lot of otherwise good factory tubes just can't handle a couple of hundred rounds between cleaning like a custom barrel might.

Best of luck with it. Remember, even if you are only staying around 1 m.o.a., train to do that in all sorts of positions and weather,. . . in a hurry and you will be able to handle anything that comes your way.

Terry

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

Thanks for the input Terry.

I am betting that it's just a dirty bore right now, since that is the easiest thing to check. I am going to give it a good clean and throw a couple boxes through.

Hopefully Sunday will be nice and I can take some variables out of the equation.

 

[USCG Flyer]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

I'll echo some others here with the results. Shooting it from my PSS it usually went right around 1/2 to 3/4 MOA. One thing I do recall is that from the same PSS the 175 did a bit better than 168, often sub 1/2. As you said though, issue ammo is issue ammo... re-dope and drive on...

 

[sherlok]

Re: 168 FGMM Group Sizes?

168 grain GMM has been OK in my SPS Tac (about .75 moa), but I can out hand load it.

I was very disappointed in their 69 grain load in .223. Did not seem like the gold standard to me.

Regards, Sherlok