Range Report 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

[anothervr6kid]

I have a factory remington 700 with a 1-12" twist. Will I get more accuracy out of a 175 vs a 168 bullet? I don't reload yet, but will in the future and I need some ammo soon. I shoot out to 600 yards at my local range but am going on a trip that will let me go out to ~1000 yards.

 

[5RWill]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: anothervr6kid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a factory remington 700 with a 1-12" twist. Will I get more accuracy out of a 175 vs a 168 bullet? I don't reload yet, but will in the future and I need some ammo soon. I shoot out to 600 yards at my local range but am going on a trip that will let me go out to ~1000 yards.</div></div>

Theoretically 155s would do good also. Best thing is to give em both a try. Even if your twist isn't suited for them you never really know. 1:12 is usually suited for 155s and 168s, i believe.

 

[Notso]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

Which Rem 700? For 1000 yds, I would definitely go with 175 SMKs or 178 AMAXs. Both work really, really well in my 1:12 SPS-T at 1K. The new Berger 175s and the Hornady 178 super performance sound interesting, but I have no experience with either.

As for the 155s, I think it totally depends on the gun. Most of the high BC 155s like the Scenar and Palma MK like to be pushed hard before you really see the benefit of them. I tried some of both in my 20" and they really sucked ass and I suspect because I could barely get them to 2800 fps.

One final note, if you're trying to shoot tiny groups at 100 yds, the 168 AMAX really shines in my 1:12 and it does really well out to 800. Beyond that the 175/178 really take over. And the heavier bullets are still very accurate in close.

If I had to choose only one bullet from 100-1000 yds, it would be the 175 SMK.

 

[thumper49802]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

175's you cant go wrong. On that note try searching for stuff first.

Snipers Hide Seach Engine

 

[winxp_man]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Notso</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which Rem 700? For 1000 yds, I would definitely go with 175 SMKs or 178 AMAXs. Both work really, really well in my 1:12 SPS-T at 1K. The new Berger 175s and the Hornady 178 super performance sound interesting, but I have no experience with either.

As for the 155s, I think it totally depends on the gun. Most of the high BC 155s like the Scenar and Palma MK like to be pushed hard before you really see the benefit of them. I tried some of both in my 20" and they really sucked ass and I suspect because I could barely get them to 2800 fps.

One final note, if you're trying to shoot tiny groups at 100 yds, the 168 AMAX really shines in my 1:12 and it does really well out to 800. Beyond that the 175/178 really take over. And the heavier bullets are still very accurate in close.

If I had to choose only one bullet from 100-1000 yds, it would be the 175 SMK. </div></div>


+++1 175 smk FTW

 

[EXSOCAL]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

Had equally as good of loads out of the 178 amax as the 175 SMK. I just completely switched gears and started out fresh with the 155 scenars, on the computer they are considerably flatter at a grand.... we shall see how I can get them to group in real life...

 

[Northland]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

I'm loading 168's just as a clone to FGMM so I can keep a zero on that rifle. But I'm about to load 175's and 155's for everything else

 

[bama110]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

I shoot 168 amax, they are good out to 1000. I went with the 168 amax so if I do not have time to reload I simple but 168 amax match ammo.

 

[Tunin]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

You just have to go play with it. I have a similar Rem 700 XCR, I went out and bought two boxes of everything I could get my hands on. In retrospect one box of each would have done ok initially. I thought the FedGMM's in 168 would be my gold standard, but for some reason my rifle _really_ likes Fiocchi's 175 SMK rounds. Will be putting SWAmmo's 175SMKs through it to try them out as soon as it's back from the shop.

Point is, play with it a while. You'll find that for whatever reason it may just love to digest a particular load. Then start pushing out and see how it does at longer distances.

 

[cooper_257]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

175 smk

 

[5RWill]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

My 5R shoots 155gr scenars pretty damn well. At around 2898fps when loads are consistent. I just ordered 100 168gr VLDs and 100 175gr berger BT LRs. Both have great BCs for .30 cal bullets and depending on what velocity you can get some bullets give about the same performance. According to both manufactures websites, (don't have applied ballistics yet) the G1 BC of the 155gr scenar is .460 and G7 of .230 (.238litz i believe). The 168gr VLD has a G1 of .473 and .242. Given similar velocities of both bullets they perform pretty closely. With the 168 bucking wind better with a little more drop depending on the speed of the 168gr, and the 155 having less drop but more windage.
http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading
http://www.bergerbullets.com/Products/Target%20Bullets.html

Distance:1000yds 10mph crosswind @ 90 degree angle
155gr @ 2875fps
Drop(mil) windage(mil)
-9.4 -2.7

168gr VLD @ 2800
Drop(mil) windage(mil)
-9.9 -2.7

175gr BT LR @ 2753
Drop(mil) windage(mil)
-9.6 -2.4

When it all comes down to it, see what your gun likes, i believe they all get the job done. Although i haven't seen many 168gr loads that push 2800, i'm going to try it and see what i can get.

 

[LRS_Ranger]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

Try 'em all! For me, 155 Scenars get it done, closely followed by 175 SMK's. Since most of my shooting is 600 yards and under, I prefer the 155's as I get a little flatter trajectory..

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRS_Ranger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try 'em all! For me, 155 Scenars get it done, closely followed by 175 SMK's. Since most of my shooting is 600 yards and under, I prefer the 155's as I get a little flatter trajectory.. </div></div>

This^, though as of now I prefer the 155s at all ranges, with the 175s a close second.

 

[BryanLitz]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: anothervr6kid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a factory remington 700 with a 1-12" twist. Will I get more accuracy out of a 175 vs a 168 bullet? I don't reload yet, but will in the future and I need some ammo soon. I shoot out to 600 yards at my local range but am going on a trip that will let me go out to ~1000 yards. </div></div>

Consider this:
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/TacticalAmmo.html

Regardless how it shoots for you, consider that you'll be left with fire formed Lapua brass for when you start to reload yourself.

-Bryan

 

[Graham]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRS_Ranger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Since most of my shooting is 600 yards and under, I prefer the 155's as I get a little flatter trajectory.. </div></div>I would say the reverse: That one might prefer 155's beyond 600 yards because of the flatter trajectory. Out to 600 yards what is the difference in the trajectory between a 168 SMK at 2650 and a 155 Scenar at 2950?

Accuracy between 168's and 175's will depend on bullet quality. Assuming 168SMKS vs 175SMK's there is no measurable accuracy difference. Between 168 hunting bullets and 175JLK's there will be a noticeable accuracy difference.

If you want to shoot Scenars make sure you have a tight bore, as they don't shoot well through all factory barrels. If you want to shoot 168's stay inside of 700 yards, as they won't fly properly at extended ranges. If you want to shoot your .308 to 1000 yards use 175's.

 

[Old TOW Gunner]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

I'm going to load .308 155g 168g & 175g any suggestions on powders, want to shot as far and fast as possible

 

[Longguns]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=323517&nt=10&page=1
Try this link. Many guys have posted their loads and weapons.

 

[5RWill]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

TOW, i haven't gotten deep into trying many bullets for my .308 yet, but i can honestly say varget is one of the best all around powder's i've used for many calibers and seen from other's load data. It will be the first powder i try on these 168s and 175 bergers coming in. Hopefully i can push 2700+ out of the 175gr.

 

[Crook79]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

168 Amax match ammo has been stellar in my SPS Varmint...haven't had them out past 600 yet but have heard they transition better than the 168 SMKs. I am going to develop my 1000 yard round with the 178 Amax however.

 

[Wylie Custom]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

I am showing really good accuracy with Reloader 15 in the 168 and 175 Bergers. I load 45 grains for the 168 and either 42.5 or 44 for the 175. 42.5 seems to be a little more accurate for the 175.

 

[5RWill]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sledge Hammer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am showing really good accuracy with Reloader 15 in the 168 and 175 Bergers. I load 45 grains for the 168 and either 42.5 or 44 for the 175. 42.5 seems to be a little more accurate for the 175.</div></div>

Good to hear i'll have to pick some up. Just got my berger 168s and 175s in but haven't had time to load.

 

[Leaddog]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Hopefully i can push 2700+ out of the 175gr.</div></div>

Why? At 60 degrees, 2650 will be fine for all ranges. At 90, you will have your 2700 without adjusting the load.

 

[5RWill]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

Why not? If i get to shooting my 175gr loads and i find a load that is deadly accurate while pushing 2700, without pressure signs..whats not to like? I'll gladly take 2650 or a little over don't get me wrong, but if i had my choosing i would love to be running a 175gr around 2730-2750fps.

 

[vman]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

Im a big fan of the 175smk

 

[winxp_man]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

My rifle does really good with the 175 and Varget powder!

 

[Leaddog]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why not? If i get to shooting my 175gr loads and i find a load that is deadly accurate while pushing 2700, without pressure signs..whats not to like? I'll gladly take 2650 or a little over don't get me wrong, but if i had my choosing i would love to be running a 175gr around 2730-2750fps.</div></div>

Many times faster is not always better with a .308, especially with heavier bullets. If you want something that is 'deadly accurate' as you say, get your reloading tweaked so that your ES is in the low teens and your SD's are in the single digits. Runout less than .001 is another important consideration. These are the things that will make a difference, more so than just a velocity number.

 

[5RWill]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Leaddog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Many times faster is not always better with a .308, especially with heavier bullets. If you want something that is 'deadly accurate' as you say, get your reloading tweaked so that your ES is in the low teens and your SD's are in the single digits. Runout less than .001 is another important consideration. These are the things that will make a difference, more so than just a velocity number. </div></div>

Thats why i said "if" and i would like. If i get an accurate load at 2600+ that has a low ES and good SD as you say i'm not going to toss it because it's not as fast as i would like. I would simply like to have 2700+ is all. I wasn't meaning that i'm only going to take the load that was shooting at 2700+ the most accurately. Going to load and shoot today, got some more nosler brass in. Going to load some 175gr berger BT LRs, trying varget and R15, with CCI BR-2s. Also going to take my time loading powder charges and prepping to make sure everything is uniform

. Will let ya know how everything goes.

 

[Notso]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoreSnake08</div><div class="ubbcode-body">168 Amax match ammo has been stellar in my SPS Varmint...haven't had them out past 600 yet but have heard they transition better than the 168 SMKs. I am going to develop my 1000 yard round with the 178 Amax however. </div></div>
168 AMAXs have become my favorite load in my SPS tactical. For everything short of about 900 yds, the 168 AMAXs outperform everything else I've tried, and I've tried pretty much everything out there in .308. The 168 AMAXs do surprisingly shoot well at 1k, but it seems like the 175 SMKs and 178 AMAXs are just a tiny bit more consistent at that range. But having said that, I use the 168 AMAXs for our TAC matches because we shoot 700m down to 100 yds and that bit of extra accuracy makes a difference in scores.

 

[5RWill]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

Here are the groups from today. Velocities were consistent groups were ok i'm not entirely pleased with them. Loaded 43gr- 45gr of varget in 1/2 gr increments. Groups seemed to start tightening up as i went up. I screwed up on 44 1/2 just got jumpy wasn't holding steady. Would more than likely be alot tighter if i would've been shooting better. Overall pretty good i guess, i would like to load another batch just to see if i could tighten some of them up, and also give 44 1/2 and 45 another try. While at the same time see what i could get with 45.1 or 45.2. That being said i'm going to try R15 next round to see how it turns out.
Velocity for 45gr had the biggest ES, but i could've been more patient loading the 45gr. Velocity for the 43 and 43.5 i got Errors on the chrono but they were looking good. 43gr was 2552 and 2554. 43.5 was 2597, 2602, and 2602. 44gr was 2618, 2617, 2613, 2623, and 2624. The rest you can see on the pictures.
Load Data:
Nosler custom .308 brass
Federal 210m primers
175gr Berger BT LRs
2.800 0AL

 

[Leaddog]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here are the groups from today.
The rest you can see on the pictures.
Load Data:
Nosler custom .308 brass
Federal 210m primers
175gr Berger BT LRs
2.800 0AL
</div></div>

Forget the Nosler Brass. Use Lapua.

What were your ES and SD's?

You have a loose bore according to the speeds you are getting with those loads. Is this a factory rifle? What barrel length and twist?

Why are you experimenting with so many types of powder, brass, and bullets?

Pick one and work on your marksmanship.

 

[5RWill]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

I don't see a problem with nosler brass, so i can't say i'll be switching especially since i have 100 cases. I do have to ask why should i switch? I've only done one shooting with these bullets and only used one powder. I wanna try RL15 and maybe IMR 4350 to see what kind of accuracy i get out of them.. I have been using nosler brass from the very beginning, have only switched bullets once and switched primers once. The rifle is rem. 700 5R (11.25 twist) bedded in a McM A-5. How could you tell i have a loose bore just from my velocities? Not enough jump from grain to grain?

44gr

SD: 4.5
ES:11

44.5gr

SD: 4.4
ES: 12

45gr

SD:10.75
ES:29

 

[JeffBeck]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

Superperformance 178s worked extremely well out of three 700s with 22 inch tubes (12 twist) out to 1000 yds. Flatter than the other match ammo we saw out to 1000. They did not like my 17 tube 700, which usually shoots 1/3 inch groups at 100 with 168s. Not sure what twist (Douglas tube).

 

[Leaddog]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

I would stay with the 43.5 unless you are regularly shooting at 1000 yards, and then I might try the 45. Watch out for pressure signs this summer. 45 grains will be a hot load with a 175.

 

[5RWill]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

Yeah i felt like 44 was tighter than 43.5 but i might work between 43.5 and 44. I'm happy with the ES and SD though. Just got to load up some more and get to shooting.

 

[Leaddog]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah i felt like 44 was tighter than 43.5 but i might work between 43.5 and 44. I'm happy with the ES and SD though. Just got to load up some more and get to shooting.</div></div>

Just two weeks ago in another thread, you didn't know what ES was but you said that you had variances in your loads of 20fps to 122fps. That was back when you said you were sticking with the 155's. Remember?

What miracle of reloading did you discover to get the ES/SD numbers you post above? What reloading equipment and model Chrono are you using? Benchrest shooters are hard pressed to see those numbers and they are anal about everything.

 

[5RWill]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Leaddog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Just two weeks ago in another thread, you didn't know what ES was but you said that you had variances in your loads of 20fps to 122fps. That was back when you said you were sticking with the 155's. Remember?

What miracle of reloading did you discover to get the ES/SD numbers you post above? What reloading equipment and model Chrono are you using? Benchrest shooters are hard pressed to see those numbers and they are anal about everything.


</div></div>

Haha yeah i remember. Idk i just like the 175s now, never thought i would, but i like the idea of shooting a decently sized bullet with a high BC.

One thing i have to account for is this was only through 5 shots. Still pretty consistent though compared to last time. The main thing i did was switch from Winchester long rifle magnum primers to Fed 210m. Tried to be as precise as i could when loading powder charges. Reloading equipment was RCBS rock chucker, RCBS hand prime, RCBS scales, and a Chrony F1. I would save up for a Oelher but this seems to work, and recording real data when shooting will be more valuable anyway.

Probably going to seat the bullets out maybe a tenth or so to get closer to the lands to squeeze some more accuracy out of the load. To make the load i looked at reloaders nest and 6mmbr.com looked all the data for accurate loads with 175gr bullets and sort of formed my own

.

Load data:
Nosler .308 Brass
Berger 175gr BT LR
44gr Varget
Fed. 210 match primers
OAL 2.800.

 

[Leaddog]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

You are hurting my head. Just stop experimenting with everything in town and burning up your barrel. You have a load now. Go out and shoot for awhile and forget all this talk of BC's, this bullet and that bullet, chronoes, and seating a 'tenth' more whatever that means, etc.

Get away from group shooting at 100 yards and go shoot some distance like 600-1000 and learn what really matters... wind/mirage reading. Find a mentor to shoot with.

 

[5RWill]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

Haha i am. I have my load now.

 

[Leaddog]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Haha i am. I have my load now.</div></div>

Glad to hear it. Once you have a good load, the rest is like a dog chasing it's tail. Now go out and have some fun!

 

[javi_559]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

i get great results with 168 AMAX and RE 15

 

[treemonkey]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

i like the 168 for target.
180 for hunting but the best i do is 500 yards

 

[XTR]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

I haven't proved it to myself, but everyone on the line at 1000 tells me that the 168 won't get there if you want to shoot 1000 you need to use either the 175 SMK or the 155 Scenar,

 

[5RWill]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

Well theoretically if you could get the berger 168gr (G7 BC .242) VLDs around 2700+ it will remain supersonic out to 1000yds which should help.

 

[vman]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I haven't proved it to myself, but everyone on the line at 1000 tells me that the 168 won't get there if you want to shoot 1000 you need to use either the 175 SMK or the 155 Scenar, </div></div>

Some 168's will. The 168 SMK has a very steep boat tail which is responsible for its instability problems at long range.

So its a good choice for 600 yards, but imo if your going past it the 175 is a better choice.

 

[airborne6.8]

Re: 168 or 175 gr on a .308?

168 work great out to 720 out of my gas gun..