Been shooting my Savage target model 17 HMR and getting bad groups. Got 1 inch groups at 50 yards but man they open up at 100. Only fired 75 rounds so far, and have heard they may take up to a couple hundred to break in. What's everyone else getting for groups? Fired 5 different brands of ammo. Plan on shooting a couple hunderd this weekend.
17 HMR?
- Thread starter avidflyer
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Re: 17 HMR?
Ammo brand will make no difference. They are all made by CCI. Lot # makes a big difference, though. I have had lots that just didn't shoot and lots that shot very well.
I am surprised that the groups really opened up at 100. I have found that my groups at 100 are roughly twice the size of groups at 50, which is not really a shocker.
Ammo brand will make no difference. They are all made by CCI. Lot # makes a big difference, though. I have had lots that just didn't shoot and lots that shot very well.
I am surprised that the groups really opened up at 100. I have found that my groups at 100 are roughly twice the size of groups at 50, which is not really a shocker.
Re: 17 HMR?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ammo brand will make no difference.</div></div>
My ass.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lot # makes a big difference, though.</div></div>
This is true.
Some people say the ammo brand doesn't matter, but I find this to be a bit off. My Savage 17 with the non-heavy barrel likes the Hornady 17gr VMAX's while my other Savage 93 FVSS with the heavy barrel seems to prefer CCI TNT's.
Don't ask me how, but while the ammo brands may not be FGGM to Brown Bear different, subtleties mean a world of difference when you're pushing 17 grains at 2550 FPS give or take.
Try some 20gr boxes through your rifle. If you're not grouping 17gr well, try 20gr XTP or FMJ's. Also don't clean the shit out of it. 17 HMR likes it dirty.
17's are the best rimefire out there, but you just gotta find what works with your gun as each is different.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ammo brand will make no difference.</div></div>
My ass.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lot # makes a big difference, though.</div></div>
This is true.
Some people say the ammo brand doesn't matter, but I find this to be a bit off. My Savage 17 with the non-heavy barrel likes the Hornady 17gr VMAX's while my other Savage 93 FVSS with the heavy barrel seems to prefer CCI TNT's.
Don't ask me how, but while the ammo brands may not be FGGM to Brown Bear different, subtleties mean a world of difference when you're pushing 17 grains at 2550 FPS give or take.
Try some 20gr boxes through your rifle. If you're not grouping 17gr well, try 20gr XTP or FMJ's. Also don't clean the shit out of it. 17 HMR likes it dirty.
17's are the best rimefire out there, but you just gotta find what works with your gun as each is different.
Re: 17 HMR?
I love my Dads 17hmr. I shoot under 1moa with it and it is a cheap mossberg 817. Couldnt tell you why yours wont group well though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have found that my groups at 100 are roughly twice the size of groups at 50, which is not really a shocker. </div></div>
I have found the same thing happens when I shoot. I think I see a trend here...
I love my Dads 17hmr. I shoot under 1moa with it and it is a cheap mossberg 817. Couldnt tell you why yours wont group well though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have found that my groups at 100 are roughly twice the size of groups at 50, which is not really a shocker. </div></div>
I have found the same thing happens when I shoot. I think I see a trend here...
Re: 17 HMR?
Something is wrong with yours. My Rem 547 shoots 3/4@100yds. Check the action screws ,bases,rings and the scope. Send it back if you can't find a problem.
Something is wrong with yours. My Rem 547 shoots 3/4@100yds. Check the action screws ,bases,rings and the scope. Send it back if you can't find a problem.
Re: 17 HMR?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ammo brand will make no difference.</div></div>
My ass.
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Thank you for you'r query Bob,
CCI, Federal, Winchester, Remington and Hornady all loaded here at CCI in Lewiston, Idaho with a V-max bullet are identical, with the exception of tip color. Manufactured on the same equip, to the same ballistic specs, using the same components other than color of the tip of the bullets. Obviously the shellcase 'head stamp' and packaging would be different on the various products.
Linda Olin
CCI/Speer Technical Services
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
</div></div>
Been there, done that. Obviously, when they change manufacturers, they start a different lot, but you are looking at a difference in lots, not a difference in manufacturer.
Now, different bullets will shoot differently as well. Now you are talking about an entirely different ammo build. FMJ, V-Max, Hollow Point, will all shoot differently. My experience based on the two 17's that I own are that the V-Max is the best, followed by FMJ, and then Hollow Point. I have talked to folks who swear that FMJ is the most accurate, and it may well be for their guns. I own an Anshutz and a Marlin and have put about 2,000 rounds through the both of them with a lot of ammo experimentation.
I bought a couple of bricks of the Hornady on-line from MidSouth for cheap and unfortunately, those lots didn't work for me. I was pretty sure that my Annie sucked. I bought a different lot of the Hornady at Wal-mart and it shot lights out. I then went to every Wal-mart, Academy, and gun shop in town trying to track down that lot number. Pay attention to the lot number, not the brand. Or don't. What do I know?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ammo brand will make no difference.</div></div>
My ass.
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Thank you for you'r query Bob,
CCI, Federal, Winchester, Remington and Hornady all loaded here at CCI in Lewiston, Idaho with a V-max bullet are identical, with the exception of tip color. Manufactured on the same equip, to the same ballistic specs, using the same components other than color of the tip of the bullets. Obviously the shellcase 'head stamp' and packaging would be different on the various products.
Linda Olin
CCI/Speer Technical Services
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
</div></div>
Been there, done that. Obviously, when they change manufacturers, they start a different lot, but you are looking at a difference in lots, not a difference in manufacturer.
Now, different bullets will shoot differently as well. Now you are talking about an entirely different ammo build. FMJ, V-Max, Hollow Point, will all shoot differently. My experience based on the two 17's that I own are that the V-Max is the best, followed by FMJ, and then Hollow Point. I have talked to folks who swear that FMJ is the most accurate, and it may well be for their guns. I own an Anshutz and a Marlin and have put about 2,000 rounds through the both of them with a lot of ammo experimentation.
I bought a couple of bricks of the Hornady on-line from MidSouth for cheap and unfortunately, those lots didn't work for me. I was pretty sure that my Annie sucked. I bought a different lot of the Hornady at Wal-mart and it shot lights out. I then went to every Wal-mart, Academy, and gun shop in town trying to track down that lot number. Pay attention to the lot number, not the brand. Or don't. What do I know?
Re: 17 HMR?
I haven't seen a change with lot numbers, at least not yet, but my 93R BTVS shoots about the same (roughly 1 MOA at 100 yards) with everything I've tried (Hornaday, Federal, Winchester, and Remington, most 17 grain but some 20 grain) EXCEPT for CCI hollowpoints. With the CCI the groups open to 1.5 - 2 MOA.
I haven't seen a change with lot numbers, at least not yet, but my 93R BTVS shoots about the same (roughly 1 MOA at 100 yards) with everything I've tried (Hornaday, Federal, Winchester, and Remington, most 17 grain but some 20 grain) EXCEPT for CCI hollowpoints. With the CCI the groups open to 1.5 - 2 MOA.
Re: 17 HMR?
I agree with Brian. Check screws, rings, base and scope. Then send it back....or send it to me and I will take a try with it.
My Savage 17 is a prairie dog killing machine out to about 200 yards.
I agree with Brian. Check screws, rings, base and scope. Then send it back....or send it to me and I will take a try with it.
My Savage 17 is a prairie dog killing machine out to about 200 yards.
Re: 17 HMR?
I group under an inch a 100 with my BV, and I'm far from a good shot. It does seem to like Hornady 17gr Vmaxs too.
I group under an inch a 100 with my BV, and I'm far from a good shot. It does seem to like Hornady 17gr Vmaxs too.
Re: 17 HMR?
My savage .17HMR is shooting under a 1/2" at 100yds with the hornady 17gr Vmax. I bought it at cabelas with their .17 specific tactical scope put my smaller luepold 7x on it and dialed it in at 50 yds moved out to 100 and with the first 10 shots out of the box it had its first group under a 1/2"
My savage .17HMR is shooting under a 1/2" at 100yds with the hornady 17gr Vmax. I bought it at cabelas with their .17 specific tactical scope put my smaller luepold 7x on it and dialed it in at 50 yds moved out to 100 and with the first 10 shots out of the box it had its first group under a 1/2"
Re: 17 HMR?
I'm in the same boat as the OP with the same exact rifle.
The first one i took back because it shot like total sh*t. At its best was 2 moa at 100. They argued with me at the shop and said accuracy is subjective and someone else might think that is good, that is until they saw the crown was fubard up and with closer inspection saw the rifling had a bad "scratch" in it.
The smith said it was prob a chip that went in when they rifled it.
Second one is better but not moa yet, 17 v'maxs are the worst 1.7 moa usually. 20 grain cci hp's bout 1.3 moa, 20 grain hornaday hp's just over moa.
Not to hyjack OP's thread but my groups are much bigger vertically than horizontally(taller than wider) almost twice on all accounts.
Any ideas.
Also, anyone pillar bed one, saw a review but it looks intense for a 450$ gun?
I'm in the same boat as the OP with the same exact rifle.
The first one i took back because it shot like total sh*t. At its best was 2 moa at 100. They argued with me at the shop and said accuracy is subjective and someone else might think that is good, that is until they saw the crown was fubard up and with closer inspection saw the rifling had a bad "scratch" in it.
The smith said it was prob a chip that went in when they rifled it.
Second one is better but not moa yet, 17 v'maxs are the worst 1.7 moa usually. 20 grain cci hp's bout 1.3 moa, 20 grain hornaday hp's just over moa.
Not to hyjack OP's thread but my groups are much bigger vertically than horizontally(taller than wider) almost twice on all accounts.
Any ideas.
Also, anyone pillar bed one, saw a review but it looks intense for a 450$ gun?
Re: 17 HMR?
This is a ten shot group at 100 yds with my Savage Model 93. Scope is a cheap Burris 3-9X but it's good for practice. I have shot all the different brands of ammo and prefer the Hornady with the 17gr VMAX. I did install a Rifle Basix trigger.
This is a ten shot group at 100 yds with my Savage Model 93. Scope is a cheap Burris 3-9X but it's good for practice. I have shot all the different brands of ammo and prefer the Hornady with the 17gr VMAX. I did install a Rifle Basix trigger.
Re: 17 HMR?
I have seen the e-mail regarding all of the hmr stuff being made in the same plant, and I am aware that the lot numbers and rim thickness plays a role in accuracy but I have shot all of the ammo through my Marlin including various lots of the same brands.
The winchester stuff will not shoot in my gun, the remington is almost as bad. The most accurate at 100yds and 200yds is Federal JHP 17gr although I tend to shoot ghogs with the Hornady 20xtps as they are faster than listed on the box and actually hit higher than a lot of 17gr's at 200yds, including some of the v-maxs, the wind also doesn't move them around as much.
Anywho, all of the various brands chrono differently (different lots chrono the same within that particular brand) so there has to be something different among the brands.
Be gentle on the rifling, I think it's only like .002-.003" deep...I actually made a diy patchworm out of weed wacker line and don't use any type of rod. Mine also shoots better after 50 or so rounds when it's fouled up well.
Goodluck.
I have seen the e-mail regarding all of the hmr stuff being made in the same plant, and I am aware that the lot numbers and rim thickness plays a role in accuracy but I have shot all of the ammo through my Marlin including various lots of the same brands.
The winchester stuff will not shoot in my gun, the remington is almost as bad. The most accurate at 100yds and 200yds is Federal JHP 17gr although I tend to shoot ghogs with the Hornady 20xtps as they are faster than listed on the box and actually hit higher than a lot of 17gr's at 200yds, including some of the v-maxs, the wind also doesn't move them around as much.
Anywho, all of the various brands chrono differently (different lots chrono the same within that particular brand) so there has to be something different among the brands.
Be gentle on the rifling, I think it's only like .002-.003" deep...I actually made a diy patchworm out of weed wacker line and don't use any type of rod. Mine also shoots better after 50 or so rounds when it's fouled up well.
Goodluck.
Re: 17 HMR?
I have a CZ452 varmint 16" barrel moderated with nice trigger job and it is all neatly dropped into a Boyds Evo stock, I'm quite happy with it, it shoots 1/2" @ 100yds all day every day and I regularly shoot UK bunnies with it out to 250yds and have shot masses of foxes with it.
Edit. Ammo choice definately does make a difference regardless of who actually manufactures it, because my rifle definately knows whether or not it says Hornady 17grn V-max on the box or not!!
happy days
I have a CZ452 varmint 16" barrel moderated with nice trigger job and it is all neatly dropped into a Boyds Evo stock, I'm quite happy with it, it shoots 1/2" @ 100yds all day every day and I regularly shoot UK bunnies with it out to 250yds and have shot masses of foxes with it.
Edit. Ammo choice definately does make a difference regardless of who actually manufactures it, because my rifle definately knows whether or not it says Hornady 17grn V-max on the box or not!!
happy days
Re: 17 HMR?
If changing ammo doesn't sort it out, you might try a Limbsaver De-Resonator. One of the problems with rimfires is you have very limited ability to tune your ammo to the barrel. This gizmo lets you tune the barrel to your ammunition. It works the same as a bughole tuner (or Browning's B.O.S.S.), only adjustment increments aren't so fine and the device is a lot less expensive.
Yeah, it might look goofy but I've been able to tighten the groups on just about every rimfire I've tried them on. They're more effective on skinnier profile barrels than target profile "bull" barrels. I've got a cheap POS Marlin in .17 HM2 (the HMR's non-magnum little brother) that wouldn't stay on the paper without the De-resonator. With it, it shoots 1/8" 5-shot groups @50 yards.
Dayum, nico243, your rimfire suppressor is bigger than my centerfire can.
If changing ammo doesn't sort it out, you might try a Limbsaver De-Resonator. One of the problems with rimfires is you have very limited ability to tune your ammo to the barrel. This gizmo lets you tune the barrel to your ammunition. It works the same as a bughole tuner (or Browning's B.O.S.S.), only adjustment increments aren't so fine and the device is a lot less expensive.
Yeah, it might look goofy but I've been able to tighten the groups on just about every rimfire I've tried them on. They're more effective on skinnier profile barrels than target profile "bull" barrels. I've got a cheap POS Marlin in .17 HM2 (the HMR's non-magnum little brother) that wouldn't stay on the paper without the De-resonator. With it, it shoots 1/8" 5-shot groups @50 yards.
Dayum, nico243, your rimfire suppressor is bigger than my centerfire can.
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