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F T/R Competition 175 to 155
- Thread starter ghorsley
- Start date
Scenars are precision made, just open a box and looks that the pristine, perfect meplats. But if your shooting them out to 1000 better get a high CUP pressurization. So, if your running Varget your looking at 46 to 49 grains. All this said a 175 lobbed at 2600+ fps will get your further with similar accuracy.
It all become somewhat academic when you make the move to 6.5 Cred or 260, where the performance is superior with similar or less pressure.
Make the move and you will be happy otherwise your trying to soup up your Camaro to be as fast as a Porsche.
I don't know if I'm helping here or just F-ing things up!!???
It all become somewhat academic when you make the move to 6.5 Cred or 260, where the performance is superior with similar or less pressure.
Make the move and you will be happy otherwise your trying to soup up your Camaro to be as fast as a Porsche.
I don't know if I'm helping here or just F-ing things up!!???
You should be able to get 175s around 2800 with Varget, I am loading 44.6gr and getting 2730 out of a 22" Krieger. 155s work very good if you can get them going around 2900, but if you don't reload that is going to be hard.
175 JLK
175 Match BT LR
180 JLK LBT
185 Juggernaut
I'd take any of the above over 155 for 800 to 1000 yard shooting.
600 and in the 155s do okay.
Reason for 308 is to stay in F T/R class, correct?
Yes you can, with a 30 Inch barrel, try it with a short barrel and you are going to break something.
Posts like this have convinced me that every barrel I've bought from Rock Creek, Kreiger or Bartline have obviously been defective. That is the same Varget load I run with 185s out of a 30" barrel and I get the exact same muzzle velocity you have listed above. Out of a 22" barrel you are probably closer to 2570 than to 2730.
Take a closer look at the G7 BCs for the 175 SMK (.243) and the 155 Scenar (.236). Although pretty close, the 175 SMK has the better BC.
FWIW - I shot Applied Ballistics 175 Tactical OTM ammunition for a couple years in F-TR competitions. I recently had one of my GAP .308 F-TR rifles re-barreled with a longer 30" barrel in a much heavier MTU contour. It no longer shot the AB175s very well, probably due to different barrel harmonics as the chamber specs remained the same. Fortunately, I found that the new barrel really liked the FGMM 175s, reliably shooting them under 1/2 MOA, something it had not done very well with the shorter lighter contour barrel. At 2750 fps MV, these are barely supersonic at 1000 yd with the low elevation and atmospheric conditions here.
I've shot the FGMM 175s out of this rifle in several 600 yd and 1000 yd matches at Camp Pendleton. At 600 yd, they performed very well. At 1000 yd, when the wind conditions were modest (~1-5 mph), I also shot reasonably well. However, when the wind picked up to its usual obnoxious level (~8-15 mph), their performance became extremely erratic and I got creamed. After shooting a couple matches with similar results, I gave up using the FGMM 175s at 1000 yd. I have used the AB175 load with similar MV (~2750 fps) under similar wind conditions at 1000 yd here many times, and have also used handloads with 185 Juggernauts at ~2770 fps, both with far better results.
The bottom line is that a 175 SMK going at modest velocity is not a great recipe for success at 1000 yd, regardless of what often gets posted at various shooting forums on the internet. Yes, they will most definitely get there, but if there is significant wind, the 175 SMK is giving up a LOT to higher BC bullets at the same or higher velocities.
If they were currently available, I would recommend that you try the Applied Ballistics 175s. With its higher BC, the 175 gr Tactical bullet gives a marked advantage over the 175 SMK at similar MV. Unfortunately, Berger took over the Munitions part of Applied Ballistics and they haven't available for quite a while. As things currently stand, there is no way of telling when (if) they will become commercially available again.
As I understand it, your main dilemna is trying to find a quality commercial load using a.308 bullet with a higher BC than the 175 SMK. Unfortunately, there is really very little to choose from, particularly under the current ammunition crunch. If you can actually find them, you might try the Hornady 178 gr BTHP Match load (note - NOT the Superformance). That bullet has a pretty good BC and if it shoots well out of your rifle, would be a better choice ballistically than the FGMM 175s for shooting 1000 yd. At 600 yd, the FGMM 175s are great and I shoot them regularly. For 1000 yd, you're probably going to have to start reloading, or pay someone to do it for you if you want to find something better.
FWIW - I shot Applied Ballistics 175 Tactical OTM ammunition for a couple years in F-TR competitions. I recently had one of my GAP .308 F-TR rifles re-barreled with a longer 30" barrel in a much heavier MTU contour. It no longer shot the AB175s very well, probably due to different barrel harmonics as the chamber specs remained the same. Fortunately, I found that the new barrel really liked the FGMM 175s, reliably shooting them under 1/2 MOA, something it had not done very well with the shorter lighter contour barrel. At 2750 fps MV, these are barely supersonic at 1000 yd with the low elevation and atmospheric conditions here.
I've shot the FGMM 175s out of this rifle in several 600 yd and 1000 yd matches at Camp Pendleton. At 600 yd, they performed very well. At 1000 yd, when the wind conditions were modest (~1-5 mph), I also shot reasonably well. However, when the wind picked up to its usual obnoxious level (~8-15 mph), their performance became extremely erratic and I got creamed. After shooting a couple matches with similar results, I gave up using the FGMM 175s at 1000 yd. I have used the AB175 load with similar MV (~2750 fps) under similar wind conditions at 1000 yd here many times, and have also used handloads with 185 Juggernauts at ~2770 fps, both with far better results.
The bottom line is that a 175 SMK going at modest velocity is not a great recipe for success at 1000 yd, regardless of what often gets posted at various shooting forums on the internet. Yes, they will most definitely get there, but if there is significant wind, the 175 SMK is giving up a LOT to higher BC bullets at the same or higher velocities.
If they were currently available, I would recommend that you try the Applied Ballistics 175s. With its higher BC, the 175 gr Tactical bullet gives a marked advantage over the 175 SMK at similar MV. Unfortunately, Berger took over the Munitions part of Applied Ballistics and they haven't available for quite a while. As things currently stand, there is no way of telling when (if) they will become commercially available again.
As I understand it, your main dilemna is trying to find a quality commercial load using a.308 bullet with a higher BC than the 175 SMK. Unfortunately, there is really very little to choose from, particularly under the current ammunition crunch. If you can actually find them, you might try the Hornady 178 gr BTHP Match load (note - NOT the Superformance). That bullet has a pretty good BC and if it shoots well out of your rifle, would be a better choice ballistically than the FGMM 175s for shooting 1000 yd. At 600 yd, the FGMM 175s are great and I shoot them regularly. For 1000 yd, you're probably going to have to start reloading, or pay someone to do it for you if you want to find something better.
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Very hard to beat the heavies in the 180-220 grain range when you are going for 600-1,000 yards.
If you take a look at the recent Berger SW Nationals:
Match Report: 2014 Berger SW Nationals within AccurateShooter.com
There are still winning shooters running the 155s, but they are significantly being beaten by shooters running the heavies.
For F-T/R, longer barrels and heavier bullets is the definite trend that is producing the best results in Long Range.
If you take a look at the recent Berger SW Nationals:
Match Report: 2014 Berger SW Nationals within AccurateShooter.com
There are still winning shooters running the 155s, but they are significantly being beaten by shooters running the heavies.
For F-T/R, longer barrels and heavier bullets is the definite trend that is producing the best results in Long Range.
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not to hijack but kinda in the same boat my f t/r rifle (savage lrpv 30" shilen select match 1-10t) shoots the 155 gr. amaxs great i shoot it from 300-1000 yds in matches i tried shooting 178 amxs in it they shoot just not as good in my tactical 308 its the other way around (22" with break 25") it eats the 178 amaxs and the 175 smk's i think its barrel hormonics. problem i'm having since amax's are hard to get i'm swithing to 155 palma smk's but cant get the same (or close) seating depth from the lands so i'm having to play with other components
I have a very hard time believing you get 2,730 out of a 22" bbl with a 175 & 44.6 Varget. You should need at least 6" more
Bbl to get that velocity with that charge... Are you confident of that number?
To the OP, both the 155's & 175 SMK's are marginal for LR. Literally the only folks who shoot 155's at LR are the people who have to (i.e. international competitors.) As was mentioned above, the 175 SMK will get you there, but they don't handle the wind so hot. It sounds like you're not loading your own, which makes it tough. If you just want to go out and have fun (not a thing wrong with that) 175 FGMM wouldn't be a bad choice. As someone else mentioned, the 178 Hornady would be even better if your gun shoots them. However, the Hornady's are the proverbial unicorn vagina. The only problem is that it will be tough to compete with the guys hand loading heavy, high BC bullets with an SD of 3. You'll be at serious disadvantage. If I were you, I might try to find someone I trust, and pay him to load for me. Of course, that may not be a viable option for you at all. The only other option would be to get some equipment and "roll your own." The 185 Berger LRBT "juggernaut" is a fine choice. Hope this helps somewhat, and I hope you figure it out!
Good shooting,
Chef
Funny how everyone thinks you have to blast a bullet out at 2800 fps in order for it to do the right thing. Most of the pros I shoot with use 43 grains of Varget. Most of the time the slower velocities yield the best results. Slower is often better with regards to accuracy.
Ok, how about saying it this way. Find the node. But yes, the majority of really good shooters I know that are still shooting 308 and using 175s are opting for somewhat slower velocities. I have never had good luck with trying to get a 175 going 2900+fps.
FWIW regarding the velocity.
43.7 g Varget
Lapua Brass
175 SMK
2750 FPS out of a 30" barrel at 40F temp last time I checked.
43.7 g Varget
Lapua Brass
175 SMK
2750 FPS out of a 30" barrel at 40F temp last time I checked.
.5MOA at 1000 yards with 175FGMM? I can't even do consistent 1 MOA at 1000 with my handloads. Every time I get a string going in the 10s and Xs, some little, undetected by me, condition change will push my 180gr JLK launched at 2850 out of my 32 inch barrel to go find the 9 ring. If you can shoot all Xs with you FGMM, why are you even asking us of you should consider going to the 155?
All kidding aside, if you intend to be competitive at 1000 yards in F-class, you need to seriously consider handloading. The people I have seen come to the line with factory FGMM at 1000 yards all departed dejected, and with funny words when using 24 inch barrels.
The 175SMk is about the worst bullet that can reach 1000 supersonically. And coming out of a factory load doesn't help it any.
Now for velocity. In my experience, Varget likes to be loaded in a full case; it seems it's that kind of powder. At last year's Nationals in Raton, I do not remember seeing a single shooter using FGMM and I don't think the 175SMk was very popular either. On the other hand, I talked with a bunch of folks and most everybody was leaning toward higher velocity to the point where case life was limited to 1 or 2 firings. I use a longer barrel and just a tad less than a maximum load to maintain similar velocities. I do not remember anyone looking for less velocity.
Yes I have verified velocity with drop @ range, and yes there is an accuracy node around 43.5 and also one around the upper edge of the powder charge. If you look in the reloading section of this forum you will find that there are alot of people that get around the same velocity, I am not trying to start an argument and any sane person should work up a load for there gun and not take anyones load and go shoot it. Have a good day and good luck.
I think he's talking about 100 yards not 1,000 yards. He would have to be a wind reading ninja to shoot all X's with FGMM (or anything) at 1k. Not to mention the vertical that comes from inconsistent MV. I haven't chrono'd FGMM in a long time, but last time I did I think I saw an SD of around 17. That will kill you at LR. However, that stuff does shoot quite well at shorter distances, and I have no problem seeing it hold .moa to 300 if the shooter can read the wind.
Well, ok. But in the opening post he is specifically talking about shooting his custom .308 with a 26 inch barrel at 600 and 1000 yards, with 175FGM, so I just thought we were discussing shooting at those distances.
I will also agree with you that FGMM is very inconsistent and that really shows up on the paper at 1000 yards.
That distance is the domain for the handloader, especially in F-TR.
I will also agree with you that FGMM is very inconsistent and that really shows up on the paper at 1000 yards.
That distance is the domain for the handloader, especially in F-TR.
I agree with you 100% I wouldn't even want to shoot 600 with FGMM, unless I was just shooting steel. If one wants to be competitive, he best start hand loading or pay someone to hand load for him. I'm sure the AB stuff is good, but $42/box hurts when you shoot an 800 agg...
When you're at the mercy of commercial ammunition as I was for a number of years, you use what works best with your rifle. The Applied Ballistics 175 Tactical was the best out of my GAP rifles by far. Unfortunately, it is not currently available and there's no way of telling when it will be. Typical ES with the AB175s out of my rifles ranged from ~15-25 fps. Following a recent re-barrel to a longer (30" vs 28") heavier contour (MTU vs M24) barrel, the AB175s no longer grouped well at all. Likely a barrel harmonics issue as the same reamer was used to chamber the new barrel.
Fortunately, because I hadn't started reloading at the time, I had a bunch of the FGMM 175s and they shot remarkably well out of the new barrel (<0.5 MOA 5-shot groups at 100 yd). I have used them in several local 300/600 yd matches and been very satisfied with their performance at those distances. They are running right at 2750 fps from my rifle, with a typical ES of close to 50 fps.
I have used the FGMM 175s (out of necessity) at a few 1000 yd match at Camp Pendleton. Under fairly benign wind conditions, they shot surprisingly well (>/= 94%). Once the wind came up, I might as well have been using a precision shotgun. The combination of relatively low MV (2750 fps), mediocre BC of the SMK 175 (0.243 G7), and ES close to 50 fps, is not a recipe for success. I won't use them past 600 yd in competition again. They're great for 300-600 yd MR matches, particularly because I don't always have enough time to get handloads prepared due to work constraints. Past 600 yd...it's not worth the frustration. As mentioned, if you want to be competitive you'd better reload with a better bullet or at least pay someone else to do it for you if you shoot where there's any wind at all. Having developed a pretty good handload with Berger 185 Juggernauts, I'm now in a position where I can choose when/if I want to shoot the FGMM 175s. It's a much better place to be.
Fortunately, because I hadn't started reloading at the time, I had a bunch of the FGMM 175s and they shot remarkably well out of the new barrel (<0.5 MOA 5-shot groups at 100 yd). I have used them in several local 300/600 yd matches and been very satisfied with their performance at those distances. They are running right at 2750 fps from my rifle, with a typical ES of close to 50 fps.
I have used the FGMM 175s (out of necessity) at a few 1000 yd match at Camp Pendleton. Under fairly benign wind conditions, they shot surprisingly well (>/= 94%). Once the wind came up, I might as well have been using a precision shotgun. The combination of relatively low MV (2750 fps), mediocre BC of the SMK 175 (0.243 G7), and ES close to 50 fps, is not a recipe for success. I won't use them past 600 yd in competition again. They're great for 300-600 yd MR matches, particularly because I don't always have enough time to get handloads prepared due to work constraints. Past 600 yd...it's not worth the frustration. As mentioned, if you want to be competitive you'd better reload with a better bullet or at least pay someone else to do it for you if you shoot where there's any wind at all. Having developed a pretty good handload with Berger 185 Juggernauts, I'm now in a position where I can choose when/if I want to shoot the FGMM 175s. It's a much better place to be.
I flipped a coin about whether to weigh in here, so here goes:
I purchased a Savage 12 FTR in 308 (30 in barrel 1:12) for a 1000 yd summer of fun in FTR. Got hooked late last summer and tried my 223 at 600. No looking back. Here is some data that I have gathered so far. A few things 1) All this data was collected at below 20oF and I am waiting for warmer weather to move forward/confirm possible loads 2) Velocity is from Magnetospeed so it is at barrel. 3) I am looking for accuracy nodes not insane velocity 4) Until the snow melts, I cannot get beyond 300yds, so I cannot confirm real BCs or drops at 600/1000 5) I am new to this so work up your own loads as everything seems to effect things.
Since I am also playing around with 155 vs 175/178, here goes (again in 30 in barrel, below 20oF):
155 SMK Palma (2156) in Lapua case at 0oF
around 44 gr XBR 8208 2960 fps
around 45 gr XBR 8208 3010 fps
155 SMK Palma (2156) in LC case at 20 oF
around 44 gr 8208 2980 fps
around 44.5 gr 8208 3010 fps
175 SMK in LC case at 15 oF
around 44 gr Varget 2820 fps
175 SMK in LC case or FC case with F210 primer at 15oC
41.8 gr IMR4064 2760 fps
This is supposed to duplicate FGMM correct?
42.8 gr IMR4064 2813 fps
178 AMAX in WIN case at 0oF
around 44 gr Varget 2757 fps
around 45 gr Varget 2804 fps, ES=9, SD=3 this is HOT for my rifle, be careful
168 gr Hornady in RP case at 17oF
around 44 gr varget 2855 fps, ES=4
Drew
I bought a box of Berger and sierra 155's to try. All my sierra 175's are pulls so they could be re pointed. The 185 Berger hybrids or jugs will be the next one to try. I'm only running a 24" barrel though.
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There are a lot of bullets out there that you can shoot. My suggestion to many people starting out shooting 1000 yards is to get a load for the Hornady 178 HPBT and the 185Jugg, except now I don't think you can find the 178, if you can it is a great bullet for a beginner. In one of my rifles I shot both with exactly the same load using Varget. Use the 178s to learn with at 2/3 the cost of the Bergers. You can do the same with the 175SMK. It's not as good as the 178 but still a good practice bullet that costs a lot less than the Bergers
If you are going to spend the money for the Bergers get the 185Jugg up and running and never look back. It is a great bullet, it's super easy to load, doessn't seem to care much one way or the other if you jump it 10 or 110, and it's one of the most available bullets out there, meaning you can find them more often than the others.
At 600 there are more things that will work.
If you are going to spend the money for the Bergers get the 185Jugg up and running and never look back. It is a great bullet, it's super easy to load, doessn't seem to care much one way or the other if you jump it 10 or 110, and it's one of the most available bullets out there, meaning you can find them more often than the others.
At 600 there are more things that will work.
Both bullets will perform admirably with 2000MR. This powder was designed to FILL the available volume with a 175 SMK @ 2.810", to shoot at pressure less than SAAMI MAP, and to be highly efficient. As it turns out, the 155's shoot very well with this powder too. I'm not going to quote ballistics, but I do encourage you to have an academic look.
I'm shooting a 20" HOWA heavy barrel with a rifle basix trigger mounted in a modified BC medalist stock topped with a Vortex Viper. I use 175 Berger OTM's seated to factory specs in fire formed Lapua brass then neck sized only maintaining a .003 neck tension after filling the case with 44.9 gns of 4064. Velocity measures 2560 after 962 logged rounds using the equilibrium method of bore cleaning. Used 53 min of elevation at 1250 yds today and hit a spray paint can. I know there are plenty of better rounds for this kind of work and I've tried plenty of them...was using a .340 weatherby with a 28" Douglas air guaged match barrel in no. 5 taper in the early 80's before the .338 Lapua was even running down his daddy's leg...just have a soft spot for the .308...U.S. Army 1973-1977. God loves Texas and I love the hill country.
I don't have a chronograph but based on the drop of my 175gr SMK im getting 2830 FPS out of a 24 inch Bartlein using 44.6gr of N150. Someone chronoed it at 2750 in cooler conditions than my initial testing. I think there could be some black magic at work in the barrel though. Who knows...
I would like to know what you all think about 4895 behind the 155's. I've heard of velocities well above 3000 fps (like 3050-3100), which would really be advantageous using the scenars vs the 175 SMK (according to JBM).
I think Darrell Buell was the last person that I know of in the US that was seriously shooting 155 that talked about his loads, and that was close to two yrs ago. He was getting in the 3000+ FPS range with his, but they were loaded long. Some of the Brits were still shooting the 155s at Raton this yr but all in all most everyone has gone heavy at 1000 yards. The 185Jugg/OTM being the norm and 200/215 or even 230 Hybrids for many.
The 175SMK is a good bullet but its design has been passed in recent yrs by a lot of bullets. It will be interesting to see if Sierra steps up to compete. I would guess that there was almost nobody on the line at the FCNC this yr shooting Sierra bullets. [h=2][/h]
just to stir the pot a bit the BC of the Lupua 155 scenar is not even close to that of the 175smk, that being said the 155 are great as long as you push them over 2850fps which as a few have posted is pretty easy to attain.
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Done. Definitely a keeper. Weather took a turn for the better and was 42oF, only the second time since Nov. above freezing, so I practiced a little. Someone at work asked me to shoot a dime for them.
Only 100 yds in 10 mph wind, but first shot. Felt good. Hopefully this load will work at summer temps when I try 1000 yds.
I can't think of any reason to use a 175 SMK over a 155 Scenar(155 Hybrid is good too). It is fairly easy to get close to 3000 fps or above in a FTR rifle. I get them over 2850 in a 20" barrel and run them about 3040 in a 30" tube.
I am definitely not saying the 155 is the best mid- to long-range bullet out there, but I would take it over a 175 SMK any day.
I am definitely not saying the 155 is the best mid- to long-range bullet out there, but I would take it over a 175 SMK any day.
I have a 24" barrel and have a difficult time getting to 1,000 accurately with 175 SMK's (this is around sea level). The velocity is such that it will be in the transonic region when it gets there (above the speed of sound, but iffy). It was noted above that the 155's have a lower BC than a 175 SMK... true, but what you really want is a high BC for the weight. You can drive a 155 grain bullet a lot faster than a 175 SMK, so you end up in a better place. My problem is that I could not find a 155 grainer my barrel/chamber liked.
The 185 Berger Hybrid yields an accurate bullet (for my barrel) with a high BC to help the wind bucking capability. The problem with that bullet now is finding it.
The best thing that the 175 SMK has going for it is that it can travel to 1,000 and loaded appropriately closed to the lands, it will be mag length. Unfortunately for F-class, that feature doesn't matter. For a competition where you need rounds in the magazine, I would go with that bullet all day long.
The 185 Berger Hybrid yields an accurate bullet (for my barrel) with a high BC to help the wind bucking capability. The problem with that bullet now is finding it.
The best thing that the 175 SMK has going for it is that it can travel to 1,000 and loaded appropriately closed to the lands, it will be mag length. Unfortunately for F-class, that feature doesn't matter. For a competition where you need rounds in the magazine, I would go with that bullet all day long.
Couple of comments (focused on 1K shooting only!):
1. For 1K shooting, the 155 bullet weight is dead amongst serious F-class shooters. I had the oppty to score for several people using 155s at the Berger SWN's this year: my gawd they were getting their ass handed to them by the wind. The deflection of the 155s versus the 185s was noticeably worse. Anyone who does well at 1K with 155s is doing well in spite of their bullet choice.
2. I love Sierra bullets and use them in .22, 6mm, 7mm. But, in 30 cal the BCs on every bullet just plain sucks versus Berger. The truth is Sierra has not updated their 30 cal designs for a long time...like decades... and Berger is kicking their arse. Sierra 30 cals are great for mid-range.....poor choice for 1K where BC really matters.
3. I've been using the 185 Juggernauts for some time and can't imagine an easier bullet to shoot with. it's got the enviable combination of being incredibly easy to tune and having a competitive BC.
4. Gonna try some 208 A-Maxes this summer because the 200+ bullets have significantly higher BCs and every little bit matters when competing against the best. Of course, this only works in single-load competitions since the COAL is 3.1" or so.
5. For 1,000 yards, you need a 30" or longer barrel to be competitive. A shorter barrel is perfectly acceptable for mid-range, but you need every fps you can get with the 308 WIN at 1K. 30" is the minimum...
6. For what it's worth, 2700-2750 is the "normal" velocity I've seen across multiple barrels with the 185 Juggernaut loaded to a 3.0COAL in a 30" barrel. You can do a little better using HbN coated bullets and Lapua small primer brass.
Please keep in mind, I'm not generally a fan of Berger bullets because they are so damned expensive....always looking for a substitute and often find them in other calibers. But with the 30 cals, it seems like Berger has the vast bulk of good choices for 1K shooting.
1. For 1K shooting, the 155 bullet weight is dead amongst serious F-class shooters. I had the oppty to score for several people using 155s at the Berger SWN's this year: my gawd they were getting their ass handed to them by the wind. The deflection of the 155s versus the 185s was noticeably worse. Anyone who does well at 1K with 155s is doing well in spite of their bullet choice.
2. I love Sierra bullets and use them in .22, 6mm, 7mm. But, in 30 cal the BCs on every bullet just plain sucks versus Berger. The truth is Sierra has not updated their 30 cal designs for a long time...like decades... and Berger is kicking their arse. Sierra 30 cals are great for mid-range.....poor choice for 1K where BC really matters.
3. I've been using the 185 Juggernauts for some time and can't imagine an easier bullet to shoot with. it's got the enviable combination of being incredibly easy to tune and having a competitive BC.
4. Gonna try some 208 A-Maxes this summer because the 200+ bullets have significantly higher BCs and every little bit matters when competing against the best. Of course, this only works in single-load competitions since the COAL is 3.1" or so.
5. For 1,000 yards, you need a 30" or longer barrel to be competitive. A shorter barrel is perfectly acceptable for mid-range, but you need every fps you can get with the 308 WIN at 1K. 30" is the minimum...
6. For what it's worth, 2700-2750 is the "normal" velocity I've seen across multiple barrels with the 185 Juggernaut loaded to a 3.0COAL in a 30" barrel. You can do a little better using HbN coated bullets and Lapua small primer brass.
Please keep in mind, I'm not generally a fan of Berger bullets because they are so damned expensive....always looking for a substitute and often find them in other calibers. But with the 30 cals, it seems like Berger has the vast bulk of good choices for 1K shooting.
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