178 ELD Match, Varget, 308 Win

[z7.jled]

Just ordered some 178 ELD Match bullets to try out. I have been enjoying the 175 SMK's but wanted to try some new offerings.

Current load: 175 SMK, Win Brass, CCI BR2/200, 45g of Varget.

what have you all seen work with the ELD-Match bullets. I plan to start around 43.5g and go up to 45g in .3 increments and see what it likes.

I will update this thread with my load development and progress.

 

[GhengisAhn175]

I'm using the hornady 178 HPBT which is very close.

Lapua 308 brass
Fed 210 Primers
43.8gr target
Bullet seated at 20 Thousandths off the lands

Barrel info: 26" Bartlein 5R, 1:11 twist

Avg mv: 2770 fps
ES under 15
SD under 4


I think youre.starting too high at 43.5. you might be cutting into or cutting out a node. Start at 41.5-42.0

 

[LRShooter101]

NEGATIVE! DO NOT START THAT HIGH!!!

Those bullets are really long at 1.42", versus 1.24" for a 175 SMK! If you are running them out of a mag, they are going to be seated deep in the case, and that is going to reduce case capacity.

I am running a 178 ELD-X, at 2.830 (feed in a Rem 700), and my load is 40.9 grains of Varget. NOTE! it is just starting to crunch when the press bottoms out and the bullet seats. The load is good, no signs of pressure, but there is no way that I would attempt to go any higher.

I would start at no more than 40.0 and work your way up.

Plastic tip bullets are great, until you have deal with the length of them, and trying to get them to run out a mag!

 

[z7.jled]

My gun is a Mausingfield action sitting in a KRG chassis, so i can comfortably seat bullets out to max aics length (2.87" or so)

I have the hornady oal tool inbound with the same shipment so i will figure out what my limiting factor will, chamber depth or mag length.

From your advice i will start lower for sure. I have shot 178 amax and 175 smk's with 45g of varget at 2.800" with good accuracy and no visible pressure signs so i was hoping to find the high node around 44.5-45 grains



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[STI_1911_Guy]

Just ordered some 178 ELD Match bullets to try out. I have been enjoying the 175 SMK's but wanted to try some new offerings.

Current load: 175 SMK, Win Brass, CCI BR2/200, 45g of Varget.

what have you all seen work with the ELD-Match bullets. I plan to start around 43.5g and go up to 45g in .3 increments and see what it likes.

I will update this thread with my load development and progress.

These bullets are much longer than the 175 SMK however i didnt have any issues using 43.5gr varget. I do believe you may skip over the lower node if you start at 43.5. I would start at 43 even. I know that i couldnt get to the node above 44gr when I used these in my rifle so i think the higher node may be out of reach or atleast very hard on brass with these or the 178 hornady HPBT match.

 

[Rob01]

Winchester brass has a larger internal capacity than Lapua brass and will take up to the 45grns. My load with the 178 AMAX and BTHP in Win brass was 45grns. But with Hornady brass and Lapua I would use 44grns. Same velocities. I would still start around 43grns and work up with the WIn brass though as it's a good idea to be safe and start lower but I wouldn't be surprised if you end up very close to that 45grns.

 

[z7.jled]

Rob01,

I was counting on the higher capacity of the Winchester brass. I will start somewhere lower than 43g and work up. as I mentioned above, I have shot 178 AMAX's with 45g of Varget with success in this gun, seating them 2.800" to 2.840" without heavy bolt lift or flat primers (Mausingfield so I will never have ejector marks)

 

[918v]

ELD-M's need a lower amount of Varget than BTHP or Amax.

 

[dopedealer]

Lapua
210 primers
43.6 Varget
1:11

 

[z7.jled]

A little more info, Probably going to start load development this weekend/this week. of note the bullets look great. I have been a little busy with work so I have not compared weights, but lengths have been dead on using a comparator and just measuring length. little to no variation.

ELD- Match 178g Bullet length 1.322" OAL to touch lands 2.830"
Hornady BTHP 178g Length 1.352" unk
175 SMK Length 1.233" 2.75"

I a a little "gunshy" right now jumping into load development. I just figured out my 175SMK load is jammed by .05" or so. I do not have any visible signs of pressure, but I am now assuming it is probably overpressure slightly. I colored the bullet with a sharpie and got a nice little smudge from the rifling.
175SMK at to 2.800" oal
winchester brass
45g varget
cci 200

I have fired 241 shots since I cleaned last so I am going to clean it to ensure there isn't any carbon build up throwing my measurements off then retake the measurements..

 

[moosemeat]

178 eld x, 43.3 grains varget. Loaded 2.850
Got first today in a 300 yard F T/R match with that load.

Please start low and work up. The 178 eld is a totally differnt bullet than the 178 amax. I had the same assumption as you and checked my info here before being stupid. Mite as well compare it to a 190 mk or 155 scenar. Totally differnt bullet.

 

[z7.jled]

To update the progress on load development. I shot yesterday at 100 yds (max local distance) and to try and figure out my operating range I loaded up 10 rds. 41.5g 42. 42.5, 43, 43.5, 43.8, 44, 44.3, 44.6, 45g of varget. I set the length to be .005" ish in jump, just shy of kissing lands. OAL was 2.830"

178 ELD-M
Varget,
Winchester cases, once fired, annealed and shoulder bump .002"
CCI 200 primers

I fired the first five shots, 41.5g to 43.5g at one target, fired the next five shots, 43.8 to 45g at the other target. this was NOT a ladder test, I was too close at 100 yds and I have no chrono data.

The primers look ok, the 45g is a little flatter than the 41.5g that is rounded, but it doesn't appear to be too flat.

I will do a full load workup and shoot hopefully this week or next weekend.

Should I do 0.4 grain increments or .3 grain increments? the OCW instructions recommend .7% to 1% of max jumps which is either .35 grains or .45 grain I want to limit it to six groups though due to target size restrictions at my range.

thanks again, I will update after I shoot. If/When I find a good load i'll update it in the reloading depot. I found it interesting that with a 3.5grain spread I still shot a roughly 1.5moa group if you lay them over each other, and I am sure I added at least 1/2" to that spread by screwing up some technique.

 

[03psd]

was there ever an update to this? I am looking for a load for my AIAT using 178gr ELD-M and Varget

 

[Dave62677]

was there ever an update to this? I am looking for a load for my AIAT using 178gr ELD-M and Varget

Try
43.2gr varget.
lapua brass
cci br
0.015 jump

I had great success with axmc bbl

 

[03psd]

Try
43.2gr varget.
lapua brass
cci br
0.015 jump

I had great success with axmc bbl

Thank you Sir.

 

[Dave62677]

The eldm pill travel avg 2640 fps out of AI 24" bbl. And for my match chamber R700 w/ 27", it avg 2725 fps at 1100 above sea level

good luck.

 

[03psd]

The eldm pill travel avg 2640 fps out of AI 24" bbl. And for my match chamber R700 w/ 27", it avg 2725 fps at 1100 above sea level

good luck.

Thanks Dave. I am at about 600' above sea level but my AIAT has a 17" .308 barrel. I wanted to keep it short so I will probably give up some velocity. How much, I have no idea. Ever since I saw the video of LL pounding steel at 1000y with his Gladious with a 16" barrel, I have wanted a short barrel .308 and when AI came out with the AT model I knew I could have the best of both worlds. I bought the Bartlein 17" in .308 and a gain twist Bartlein 24" in 6.5CM.

 

[Dave62677]

yea, you are giving up some velocity with the 17" bbl. Long as you having good time that's all the matters.

 

[z7.jled]

to update my originial, I have fired about 300 of these loaded with 44g of varget. I settled my load about .005" of the lands, basically i wanted them to be off to kissing the lands without being jammed. I did a small seating depth test from touching the lands to .02" off in .005" steps and my groups were pretty much the same so I settled on a load at .005" off so I wasn't crushing varget when i seated the bullets.

1400ft DA 9.8 mils to 1000 yds, i recorded several hits on a 5" gong at 1000. the misses were very close, within .1 mil and no much vertical spread. I had two guys spotting for me, but didn't put paper out to measure vertical spread. all misses seemed to be just off the edge around the gong,

I did not sort my winchester brass at all, just uniformed pockets and deburred flash holes, anneal before resizing every time. I have 500 more I ordered from monmouth reloading during their liquidation sale for $27 per hundred . . .

 

[Pusher591]

Thanks Dave. I am at about 600' above sea level but my AIAT has a 17" .308 barrel. I wanted to keep it short so I will probably give up some velocity. How much, I have no idea. Ever since I saw the video of LL pounding steel at 1000y with his Gladious with a 16" barrel, I have wanted a short barrel .308 and when AI came out with the AT model I knew I could have the best of both worlds. I bought the Bartlein 17" in .308 and a gain twist Bartlein 24" in 6.5CM.

Back when I had a shorty, it was a 17”” Bartlein. My go-to loaf was 43.8-44 Varget under the 178 bthp’s. I averaged 2550 fps most days.

 

[Pvt_Snowballs]

Does anyone have any published load data on these? Or a safe minimum to max to work from?

Ty.

 

[RackOpsTactical]

I am also curious on what others are doing with Varget and 178 ELD-M's.

i'm in the middle of a workup with this combo. I'll post a thread once i settle on the final verdict.

Lapua 308 brass
CCI BR-2
Hornady 178g ELD-M

believe to have found a node I like at 42.7 gr Varget. i've gone up to 43.0 with only very light pressure signs. but was starting to get more compressed than ideal for me.

out of 24" brl i'm getting 2667 fps

currently playing with seating. testing 5 off to 30 off the lands.

 

[just browsing]

I’ve found 42.5-43.5 to be a decent flat spot. I’m using Federal brass and Federal 210Ms. 5 thou jump. Velocities are in the neighborhood of 2700 FPS from a 26” barrel.

Easy bolt lift, no ejector marks or even flattened primers. Still going to work up a bit but I’m betting I’ll end up somewhere slightly north of 43gr.

 

[AJG4]

My question is how fast is too fast.

Rifle is Impact Precision with Stuteville 26" 1:10 Bartlein barrel. Manners Prs2 and Steiner T5xi 5-25x56. Round count at 140

Started a charge test at 43.5 and worked up to 45.1 in .2 increments at 10 different loads 5 shots each total of 50.
New Sig brass. Fed LRM match primers.

Opening velocity 2703, ending velocity 2839.

Good groups throughout and no more than 10 SD.

Zero pressure signs throughout the test.

Best load looks to be around exactly 45.0 grains.
So is loading that high going to screw my barrel life or no?

 

[Rickt301]

Don't know about barrel life but that rifle is a shooter!

 

[6MT]

FWIW, here is a similar bullet load for my Coyote.

Caliber: .308win
Rifle brand: PGWdti
Rifle Model: Coyote 1.0
Barrel length and twist: 24" 1:10" Krieger
Projectile brand, model and weight: Hornady 178gr ELD-M
Powder brand and weight: Varget 43.0gr
LOAD CONSIDERED HOT OR CLOSE TO MAX: No
Primers: CCI BR-2
Coal: N/A (too long to mag feed)
Ogive length (CBTO): 2.245"
Brass: Lapua
Brass trim length: 2.005"
Ogive distance to lands: .010"

Velocity (average): 2745fps S.D.=3.1 E.S.=11 (30 shot string)
Outside temperature: 24c
Wind and direction: N/A
Barometric pressure and other relevant data: 792m ASL, 101.0Kpa, 55% RH, .002" shoulder bump

It's a shame I won't be shooting this for long. It is a very accurate and consistent load for this rifle. But, I'll be re-barrelling the Coyote in the very near future and moving on to something different. According to iSnipe, this load transitions just under 1200m (a moderate load).

 

[bluejay75]

My question is how fast is too fast.

Rifle is Impact Precision with Stuteville 26" 1:10 Bartlein barrel. Manners Prs2 and Steiner T5xi 5-25x56. Round count at 140

Started a charge test at 43.5 and worked up to 45.1 in .2 increments at 10 different loads 5 shots each total of 50.
New Sig brass. Fed LRM match primers.

Opening velocity 2703, ending velocity 2839.

Good groups throughout and no more than 10 SD.

Zero pressure signs throughout the test.

Best load looks to be around exactly 45.0 grains.
So is loading that high going to screw my barrel life or no?


View attachment 7386118View attachment 7386125

Are you still shooting this load? What COAL?

 

[Gungnir388]

Here is what I recently worked up:

This also happened to be the end of my barrels life. Off the shelf Rem 700 SPS Tactical with 20" barrel. My buddy has the same rifle and we shot this again in his with less sporadic MV. That node from 43.0-43.3 held true in his gun. Second to last square on the second target is his gun shooting 43.1 seated @ 2.1630 BTO

 

[bluejay75]

I just shot some yesterday with TAC and my 16.5 inch AAC R700. Respectable showing. Has a Timney and an HS stock and DBM. I don’t keep as good of records as you do though. I’m liking this more than the ELDX as I can get more powder with the M as it’s a little shorter. That’s two different groups of 3. Trying to get this ready for the tree stand.