17hmr Match Grade ammo

[plant.one]

another forum i frequent a discussion was started about Match Grade 17hmr ammo. Long and short several manufacturers (including CCI the primary 17 hmr producer for several brands) were contacted about it. The reply was basically if enough interest was on the market they would likely step up to fill the niche of a match grade 17hmr.

A petition has been started and i'd love to see this get some legs. If ya'll would be so kind here's the link to the petition thats being worked up to send to the rimfire manufacturers about producing Match grade 17hmr ammo.

17HMR Match Ammunition - PetitionBuzz


Thanks!

 

[GreggNY]

Match HMR would be fun to play around with. Signed!

 

[plant.one]

17hmr ammo has had problems in the past with batch consistency. I know when i find a good consistent lot # i grab as much of it as i can. Usually it takes me a half dozen or more test lots to find a good one.

what was being discussed was for example the comparison between standard 22 (not necessarily bulk) and match grade 22 where the charge (and therefore velocity) would be more consistent batch to batch (and lot to lot) since CCI is producing MOST Of the 17hmr ammo on the market.


you'll find its QUITE commmon for 17hmr ammo to have flyers that will produce 5 shot groups that would otherwise be fantastic . MOST hmr shooters that i talk to are happy to get 1" consistency at 100 yds. A BAD batch can produce groups out of the same rifle in excess of 3". Sub half inch groups are virutally unheard of - and quite often when they do show up on the interweb are suspect to be 50 yd groups claimed to be 100 yd groups. Being able to purchase (even for a couple extra $ a box) an ammo that could CONSISTENTLY produce sub 1" groups would be outstanding!


i prefer to be able to shoot minute of chipmonk @ 100 yds with my hmr.. not minute of groundhog..

 

[plunker20]

What model of 17hmr are you currently shooting. My savage m93 will shoot right under 1" all day no matter on the lot number I get of hornady ammo(cci ammo). As long as I shoot 17gr vmax if I go to the TNT or the 15gr hornady my groups open up.


I was just curious as to what you were shooting for a rifle and ammo

 

[MontanaKid]

My savage 93r loves the 17 gr vmax. Accuracy turns to shit when I use the 20 gr XTP. I guess it just varies from rifle to rifle. I'd be willing to pay a couple bucks more for consistent loads.

 

[eclipse57]

Signed it for you. Good luck!

 

[hdbiker1]

Definitely would like to see consistent moa or better with 20gr loads. Found out the other day that 17gr loads are unstable at 300yds out of my CZ (key holes), but the 20's are fine. Signed also.

 

[softcock]

If you want Match quality, then stay with .22 LR match ammo & a quality .22 rimfire rifle . Match ammo made for the 17hmr is a pipe dream .
I went through this for a few years with my Anschutz . 17hmr . Buying & going through Lot# after Lot# & the reality is . Consistent tight groups are not the norm.
( @ 100 yrd ) You do a paper full of 5 Round Groups & the over-all good average is going to be a .25 cent - Quarter size group for accuracy, with the occasional tight group mixed-in .. & like said before, There is ALWAYS going to be a flyer in 5 rounds
BUT, It was always MOA of Squirrel @ 100 yrd .
.

 

[plant.one]

What model of 17hmr are you currently shooting. My savage m93 will shoot right under 1" all day no matter on the lot number I get of hornady ammo(cci ammo). As long as I shoot 17gr vmax if I go to the TNT or the 15gr hornady my groups open up.

I was just curious as to what you were shooting for a rifle and ammo

i have a older 93r17 (started out as a tupperware base model) thats sitting on a boyd's evo these days. on the whole i am VERY happy with the rifle.

I seem get the best overall performance with hornady labeled vmax. My last two performer lots have been hornady's. I've had batches of winchester that produced shotgun patterns, while others were stellar. Likewise for remingtons. I've never had much luck with 17 tnt's.

my savage is a dirty girl. It takes about a half a box to tighten up after i give it a good cleaning. I save my bad test lot boxes for this!


all that said - i would gladly pay a few extra $ a box to not have to play the game of lot consistency testing when i run out of my current batch.

If you want Match quality, then stay with .22 LR match ammo & a quality .22 rimfire rifle . Match ammo made for the 17hmr is a pipe dream .
I went through this for a few years with my Anschutz . 17hmr . Buying & going through Lot# after Lot# & the reality is . Consistent tight groups are not the norm.
( @ 100 yrd ) You do a paper full of 5 Round Groups & the over-all good average is going to be a .25 cent - Quarter size group for accuracy, with the occasional tight group mixed-in .. & like said before, There is ALWAYS going to be a flyer in 5 rounds
BUT, It was always MOA of Squirrel @ 100 yrd .

match grade 22lr has rightfully earned its place among the precision rimfire shooting community. Hoping to see a similar grade of offering in the 17hmr isnt meant to try to take away from it at all - so why should showing interest in a match grade 17hmr be just a pipe dream.


You say that consistent tight groups are not the norm (which i agree with), but i would ask you why shouldn't it be an option? Does well enough HAVE to be left alone? If so then was match 22lr even necessary? cci mini mags should have been plenty good enough for the .22LR world. They almost always shoot minute of squirrel.

Take it a step further and you could ask why do any of us reload our centerfire ammo if not to increase consistency of the ammo we're firing. I'll be the first to admit my quest into reloading started as a budgeting thing before i realized the performance gain i could get in the consistency department. Unfortunately since we're discussing rimfire that's really not much of an option so we as a shooting community need to rely on the manufacturers to produce it for us.


with the quality of the bullet being used (goooo hornady!) likely the only step necessary to tune a 17hmr match round would be tightening up the tolerances on the powder charge and a GOOD round could likely turn into a GREAT round with minimal tinkering.





if it matters - its not MY petition. i'm just a lowly recreational shooter. the only stake i hold in it is the hopes for something better to hit the market for a 10+ year proven accepted caliber that has rifles being produced by basically every major manufacturer out there as well as many of the smaller speciality production company's both stateside and internationally.

 

[NICETRY]

Had my Savage BTVS out this weekend and has always made about 3/8" 5 shot groups at 100 and 1/2" 10 shot groups. I have only shot the Federal V-Shok out of it. This weekend though I put my Magneto Speed chrono on it just to see if it could detect the little 17hmr bullet. It worked and I was surprised at the consistency of the ammo. It averaged 2650 and about a 25fps spread. My 100 yard zero also works for 200 yard zero also. Only complaint is the crappy BSA Sweet 17 scope that came with the rifle when I bought it.

 

[plant.one]

½" 10 shot groups with a 17hmr? at 100 what? feet?

Let me guess you went hunting for elk with it after your range session and bagged a 1 shot DRT kill at 987 yards too?

no i'm not interested in any "prime waterfront" in florida. i appreciate the offer though.

lol

 

[Sportin Wood]

My Sako Quad 17hmr with Lilja bbl was around 3/4" @ 100 yds.. I guess I should've bought a cheapo BTVS Savage to get 1/2 moa...

 

[softcock]

quote:
..." match grade 22lr has rightfully earned its place among the precision rimfire shooting community. Hoping to see a similar grade of offering in the 17hmr isnt meant to try to take away from it at all - so why should showing interest in a match grade 17hmr be just a pipe dream ".
-

1st off . 17hmr has NOT earned a place for precision rimfire community . .17HMR is a nice little Varmint Rimfire Cal. ONLY . It is and never will be a Precision match rimfire Cal .

Pipe dream because I think the profit margin just isn't there in return for the investment . (for example) Just look at the decade that .22 mag has been around You Don't really see any .22 Mag Match ammo marketed out there .
So Basically (imho) NOT enough 17hmr Connoisseur's 'in demand' out there that want it to justify making it . You got your HMR diehards out there but that is NOT enough .

Then there is the Extra Cost of Match .17hmr Ammo . That is not going to fly either . One reason I just load & shoot (very accurate) .223 handloads instead of .17hmr & stick to the (very accurate) .22 match grade for the shorter ranges in varmints .
.

edit to add:
I am Very confident that the most common & Most accurate Caliber in the world is the .22 rimfire . I learned & you also will that .22 is the BigDog and not to be trifled with for precision . I got nothing against the HMR but That makes 'match .17hmr' a Pipe Dream .
.
.

 

[plant.one]

softcock, while i appreciate your bias against the 17hmr and for the 22lr but again i'll ask you - what's so wrong in wanting a better quality of ammunition to be produced for what is such a widely accepted rimfire cartridge? Repeating over and over "that its a pipe dream" just doesnt further your argument. It only reinforces your opinion.



of course the 17hmr has not yet made a splash in the precision competition section of the rimfire world - simply put - there's only one grade of ammo available ... standard production grade. nobody has claimed that it has!

again you nullify your own argument about price. saying people wont pay for the differental in cost - we dont know what it would be and where that pricepoint will be set. yet you're willing to spend on match grade 22lr.

lets just say for example that it comes in at around $25 per box of 50 - that puts the pricepoint right around what high end .22LR match costs - and would allow the manufacturer's a premium charge of $7-$9 per box over current market rates.

so if the 22lr market supports that kind of "Extra Cost" what makes you think the 17hmr varmit shooters market WOULDNT?

 

[softcock]

Dude I do like HMR but I just became a Cal. that sat in the safe because .22 LR & .223 was used more with better accuracy .
Plus the 17HMR was not primarily meant to be a Target & Comp. Rifle cartridge . It is meant for the Varmint Slayers tool, with giving another option over the .22 Mag. Cal.

You also have to understand that It has a lot to do also with a TON of inconstant Neck Tension & brittleness of brass also involved with this Cal . It starts out as just mass produced pre-primed Stait-Wall rimfire brass . it's just ( .22 Mag. brass) in the beginning & rimfire Brass varies a lot from shipment to shipment . . ( for example ) the way I understand it is, CCI gets .22 Mag brass that is already Pre-Primed . Then it is Necked-Down to .17 cal . then powdered & capped with bullet .
Match Accuracy in Loading takes more steps & work than is currently being done with this Cal. & that is just to much if you want the Cheep Rimefire Ammo . Nobody is going to pay price that to feed there .17HMR .
You want Match accuracy from this rimfire Cal. . You would be better off wasting your time trying to manufacture custom hand -loading Dies & accessories to roll your own .17hmr @ home .
.

 

[hdbiker1]

Dude I do like HMR but I just became a Cal. that sat in the safe because .22 LR & .223 was used more with better accuracy .
Plus the 17HMR was not primarily meant to be a Target & Comp. Rifle cartridge . It is meant for the Varmint Slayers tool, with giving another option over the .22 Mag. Cal.

You also have to understand that It has a lot to do also with a TON of inconstant Neck Tension & brittleness of brass also involved with this Cal . It starts out as just mass produced pre-primed Stait-Wall rimfire brass . it's just ( .22 Mag. brass) in the beginning & rimfire Brass varies a lot from shipment to shipment . . ( for example ) the way I understand it is, CCI gets .22 Mag brass that is already Pre-Primed . Then it is Necked-Down to .17 cal . then powdered & capped with bullet .
Match Accuracy in Loading takes more steps & work than is currently being done with this Cal. & that is just to much if you want the Cheep Rimefire Ammo . Nobody is going to pay price that to feed there .17HMR .
You want Match accuracy from this rimfire Cal. . You would be better off wasting your time trying to manufacture custom hand -loading Dies & accessories to roll your own .17hmr @ home .
.

Then could you inform me how match .22 LR ammo would be different? The way I see it, the manufacturers might have to slow the line down a tad, make more consistent cases, apply more consistent amount of primer compound, more consistent powder throws and consistent bullets and seating. To me that's what's involved with match .22LR, unless I've missed the part where some PFM (pure fucking magic) dust is applied somewhere along the line. Seems like an investment in upgraded machinery would be involved, but what do I know.

 

[softcock]

Then could you inform me how match .22 LR ammo would be different? The way I see it, the manufacturers might have to slow the line down a tad, make more consistent cases, apply more consistent amount of primer compound, more consistent powder throws and consistent bullets and seating. To me that's what's involved with match .22LR, unless I've missed the part where some PFM (pure fucking magic) dust is applied somewhere along the line. Seems like an investment in upgraded machinery would be involved, but what do I know.

.
You need to take your frustrations with the complete lack of Match Grade .17hmr not being produced to complement your rifle & and turn that towards CCI & the other companies that market retail in that Cartridge to help in that . See if you can get a response from them on slowing down & putting more time & money into .17hmr ammo production .
Or (fat chance) make the .17hmr re-loadable item . I think this is why you still find a good amount of people still concentrate there accuracy efforts towards the small little Centerfire Hornet , Bee's & similar Cals with faster Vel. & tighter groups . If they are looking for the most control over the bullet with every trigger pull .
.

 

[hdbiker1]

.
You need to take your frustrations with the complete lack of Match Grade .17hmr not being produced to complement your rifle & and turn that towards CCI & the other companies that market retail in that Cartridge to help in that . See if you can get a response from them on slowing down & putting more time & money into .17hmr ammo production .
Or (fat chance) make the .17hmr re-loadable item . I think this is why you still find a good amount of people still concentrate there accuracy efforts towards the small little Centerfire Hornet , Bee's & similar Cals with faster Vel. & tighter groups . If they are looking for the most control over the bullet with every trigger pull .
.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not frustrated in the least, just wouldn't mind seeing a decent rimfire round made better.

 

[plant.one]

which is amazingly why the whole petition was started - to respond to CCI's stating that if there was enough interest they would put some time and energy into the developement of a match grade round! That's where the petition is headed once it gets a good sized batch of signatures attached.



Every signature helps!

 

[eclipse57]

another forum i frequent a discussion was started about Match Grade 17hmr ammo. Long and short several manufacturers (including CCI the primary 17 hmr producer for several brands) were contacted about it. The reply was basically if enough interest was on the market they would likely step up to fill the niche of a match grade 17hmr.

A petition has been started and i'd love to see this get some legs. If ya'll would be so kind here's the link to the petition thats being worked up to send to the rimfire manufacturers about producing Match grade 17hmr ammo.

17HMR Match Ammunition - PetitionBuzz


Thanks!

Out of curiosity, did you post this over at RFC?

I went back to the site and looked, and it has only had 24 more people sign it since I did earlier this week.

Once again good luck.

 

[plant.one]

no that was someone else on RFC. i couldnt tell you how many people are trying to post this around or where its been mentioned.

 

[jeffersonv]

Pretty much everything that is 17 grains and comes out of the CCI factory shoots really nice and tight through my Marlin. In my case I cant see spending money on something that MAY shoot marginally better.

 

[Bloodstriker]

Signed. I would love to see more consistency in this ammo.

 

[shaman]

17hmr starts as 22WMR, and most know that finding an accurate 22WMR is rare. .22LR is supported by shooters all over the world, and has fed the Olympics for decades. The 17hmr is used for hunting in other countries when they can't own or the landowner won't let them shoot centerfire. It also started blowing up on people and producing up to 400 fps deviation. Maybe if you wait another 50-100 years someone will make it better. But then again, more accurate HMR would make HMR shooters heads even bigger.

 

[foxbody40891]

Signed. I would love to see it happen. It could always be me too but I seem to have flyers fairly often no matter what ammo I shoot.