18” AR Barrels

[Eoddave27]

I wanted to see if it is just me of if this is common. I have quite a few AR15 in various caiberes with different length barrels. The issue I’m having is I have not been able to find an 18” barrel 223 Wylde in any brand that will seem to shoot well. For the 16’s and 20’s I have I played around a little with charge weight with a bullet powder combination I like and I have a winner. These shoot sub .75 MOA no problem. The 18’s though I have just given up on. It seemed to be a miriacle if I could get one to shoot 1moa. I have one barrel laying in a drawer and the other two I sold. The guys who bought the barrels were more than happy but a 1 1/2” group at 100 yards is great to them. In general all they shoot is bulk ammo so the the barrels are perfect for them. I was trying to build a somewhat light precision AR and I think the 18” barrel is a lost cause. My son competes in the DMR class in PRS so he is limited to 5.56. As he gets a little older (and bigger, he is 10) we will move on to a bolt rifle. As of right now he will be using a rifle with a 16” barrel. I realize that the 18” barrel isn’t much of an advantage and that isn’t really my question. I’m just wondering if the 18” barrel for an AR is just a bastard size and typically not as accurate or if I have just got a series of high end lemons.

 

[Constructor]

lemons...or something.
A test roughly 10 years ago- I purchased 12 barrels (none chrome lined)from different makers(actual makers) not the same maker with 12 different names stamped on the barrel. I tested all of them with cheap 55gr fmj (WWB), 69gr SMKs (my highpower load for the last 20 something years, 77gr Black Hills.
All of the barrels except one shot the 55gr like crap(1.5-2") as was expected. Most shot the 69 and 77 much better than the 55gr, some shot the 69gr handload into 1/2".
I started checking to figure out why that one barrel shot the 55s so much better and held the accuracy with 69s and 77s.
Turns out the bore at the muzzle was swelled in all of the barrels except that one. All of the barrels allowed a .219" inspection pin to slide in the muzzle apx 3/4" but would than stop. A .218" slides through from one end to the other as it should.
Conclusion- The 55s have a long ogive and boat tail with a short full diameter body and wobble as the exit the swelled muzzle. The 69s and 77s have a long body full .224 diameter and not effected by the swelled muzzle. Some bullets measure .223, some .2235 and some a full .224.
Try 24gr Re15 with 69gr smks set to 2.28".

 

[lennyo3034]

I've had a lot of luck with 18" barrels. Also had a few that didn't shoot.

What barrels did you have that did not work?

 

[Eoddave27]

I’ve tried 69’s,73’s,75’s and 77’s in all three barrels. The powders I tried were RL15, Varget, H4895 and 8208xbr. Nothing would consistently shoot under 1”. With the 16” and 20” barrels I found good loads for all the powder bullet combos shooting less than .75 and some sub .5moa. I just can’t figure out what is going on with the 18’s. The barrels I shot were Faxon, Criterion, and Saturn. The 16” and 20” barrels that shoot well are all Ballistic advantage or Saturn.

 

[lennyo3034]

The two worst shooting AR barrels I've had were Criterion.

Best bang for buck for me was WOA.

Best overall have been Kriegers.

 

[Eoddave27]

All the barrels I have shoot really well. At least except the 18’s. I think the best bang for the buck has been the BA barrels for me. I have got some amazing deals on them and they all shoot great. Now I have a Saturn 6.5 Grendel barrel that is unreal. It will give my precision bolt guns a run for their money.

 

[FishDr]

Ive had very good luck with the WOA barrels. Also consider the rainier ultra match. Consistency at a very good price. Both ive seen would be around 3/8, and consistently 1/2 with my handloads.

 

[Basher]

Have you dropped Criterion a line about their barrel yet? They’re on the forums here as well, and mentioned their satisfaction guarantee in the thread below. Might be worth checking in with them.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/criterion-accuracy.6870559/

 

[VegasHKShooter]

I’m going to jump in and say this: you’re not running what most Precision guys would consider to be true top end barrels. You’re running medium grade barrels hoping for true top end results.
I’m not digging at you, and I hope this isn’t taken that way.
If you want to see truly top results, go with Kreiger, Bartlein, or something from Compass Lake. They use both of those brands.
You’re shooting barrels that are decent, certainly capable of doing what MOST folks want an AR to do, and getting the results I would expect to see for your efforts.
I have a KAC LPR. Those barrels are Kreiger match barrels. They are a stainless, non chrome lined, cut rifled barrel. It is an 18” gun. It is also a very, very accurate rifle.

Step up to a better tube, and I believe you’ll see better results.

 

[hertz654]

I just bought 2 18" Bear Creek Arsenal barrels; for the price I'm not expecting too much. Will be shooting it in combination with a Superlative Arms gas piston conversion kit -- I'm just hoping to be able to hit p-dogs and coyotes out to 300 yards.

 

[Jsp556]

I’ve not found barrel length to affect accuracy. I shoot 16, 18, and 20” AR’s. I have barrels from Kreiger Direct, Bartlein from CLE, Lothar Walther, AR15 Performance, Cut rifled LMT, and chrome lined button rifled LMT. Good blanks finished by competent companies/smiths have given good results regardless of length. I’ve had 2 BA barrels that shot well but were toast between 1200-1500 rounds. I had a Rainier arms 18” Match series barrel that shot good but was picky.

This is 6 rounds

5x5 groups shot with no cool down time between groups

18” ARP barrels. Shot prone off bipods with a rear bag.

 

[hitman]

Believe it or not I have a Daniel Def. pro model that shoots right around 1/2 moa -3/4 moa at the most never over 1". I liked it so much I bought another one at a steal of a price on gunbrk. Even IMI 77 gr shoots 3/4 moa and never been over 1 moa. I think they are pretty solid uppers. I would agree that It is better to just get a top tier though then it takes the guess work out- meaning if it shoots like crap it is prob the shooter and.or ammo! Honestly there is not all that much difference in prices between let's say a Criterion and a Bartlein. Maybe 200$ but when you building an entire rifle with parts that total prob. 2k it seems to make sense to splurge the extra 200.
Craddock is actually making me a Bartlein as we speak! I cannot wait to get it!

 

[Eoddave27]

I’m going to jump in and say this: you’re not running what most Precision guys would consider to be true top end barrels. You’re running medium grade barrels hoping for true top end results.
I’m not digging at you, and I hope this isn’t taken that way.
If you want to see truly top results, go with Kreiger, Bartlein, or something from Compass Lake. They use both of those brands.
You’re shooting barrels that are decent, certainly capable of doing what MOST folks want an AR to do, and getting the results I would expect to see for your efforts.
I have a KAC LPR. Those barrels are Kreiger match barrels. They are a stainless, non chrome lined, cut rifled barrel. It is an 18” gun. It is also a very, very accurate rifle.

Step up to a better tube, and I believe you’ll see better results.

I know I’m not using Top end barrels. These barrels are on rifles built for PRS though. In general it never made sense to me to spend the extra money for the small amount of accuracy it will get me for positional shooting. Now if I was shooting benchrest where 1/8 MOA made a big difference it would be different. In general I have been so happy with the accuracy I have been getting with these mid grade barrels I have seen no reason to spend the extra money for what most would consider a true premium barrel. In my case I have always felt I was better off using that extra money for ammo and practice especially considering the rifle is for a 10yo. Now once my kids are older and I have more disposable income ......

 

[Shoots 700's]

If I were building a dedicated PRS gas gun, I would spring f R the best barrel I could afford. Not telling you how to spend your money, but results should be better with a better barrel. Also, a gas gun is harder to shoot than a bolt gun for most.

 

[Eoddave27]

That is kind of my point. Given the rifle is for a 10yo and I can’t afford to drop a few hundred extra on a barrel I did buy the best I can afford. In his case the $300 is much better spent on ammo than on a barrel to gain him 1/8 MOA which he will never see shooting off a baracade.

At any rate it sounds like most of the guys here have been pretty happy with their 18” barrels. I may have just got a series of barrels that didn’t shoot as well as the others I have of the same make in different lengths. I had pretty much decided to stay away from 18” barrels moving forward but I may have to give another one a try in the future.

 

[FishDr]

If this barrel is for a 10 year old and the 16” gives good accuracy, I would weight the added benefit of the additional 2” of barrel against the increased difficulty of handling. For instance, I would use whatever gives the rifle the best balance and handling characteristics for the smaller frame. You are correct that gilt edge accuracy is not of primary concern. A good handling rifle that maneuvers well with good accuracy would be MY top concern. YMMV.

 

[everready073]

I would spend $280 on white oaks SPR barrel. They are very consistent and I haven't heard anything bad about them at all

Brownells runs good sales on them sometimes. Have seen as low as $230

 

[MontanaMan]

I know I’m not using Top end barrels. These barrels are on rifles built for PRS though. In general it never made sense to me to spend the extra money for the small amount of accuracy it will get me for positional shooting.

Given that statement, I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why you are complaining about the results you are getting.

Spend a few $$ more on a WOA compared to what you are using; they are definitely a step up from where you are w/o getting into the rare atmosphere on pricing, or a Rock Creek from Craddock for $285.

MM

 

[Steel head]

I really like my Ultramatch SPR barrel from Rainier.

 

[Eoddave27]

Given that statement, I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why you are complaining about the results you are getting.

Spend a few $$ more on a WOA compared to what you are using; they are definitely a step up from where you are w/o getting into the rare atmosphere on pricing, or a Rock Creek from Craddock for $285.

MM

Montana, I have had WO barrels and they honesty didn’t shoot any better than the BA barrels I have had in the same length. I also have a Rock Creek barrel from Craddock Precision on my 224 Valkyrie. It shoots great as well but not significantly better than my BA or Faxon barrels. Let’s face it, once you get under .5 MOA with an AR how much better can you really get for positional shooting. I may get more life out of the Rock Creek but that remains to be seen. I’m not really complaining about accuracy. I’m simply asking if anyone else has noticed that their 18” barrels aren’t as accurate as their 16” and 20” barrels from the same manufacturer. This has been the case with me and I simply didn’t know if it was a fluke or common. All the barrels I have are extremely accurate with the exception of the 18’s. I can get decent accuracy out of the 18’s they have just been a lot harder to dial a load in for and not as accurate as the 16’s and 20’s of the same make.

 

[TheMammoth]

Off topic but the worst 18" barrel I have is a factory BCM mk12. Its barely a 1.5" gun.

A friend at work has the PRI version of the same gun and its extremely accurate.


I have had very very good results with a couple Noveske barrels, a wilson, and a Lilja(the absolute best i have had)

 

[346ci]

18" 223 Wylde 3R SPR 3 Gun barrel, 1/2-28 THD

ar15performance.com

I have an ARP in 12.5" and 18", both shoot the Fiocchi and Gorilla 77gr into 3/4" groups. If I ever get back into reloading, I don't see 1/2" being a problem.

 

[RTH1800]

OP has figured out one of the true secrets of life.

Cheap products are rightly held to the exact standards as expensive ones. The only reason others pay for top end items is because they are snobs.

A VW Bug should go just as fast and handle just as well as a Ferrari.

 

[Steel head]

I know a few people who were somewhat disappointed with their BCM SPR barrels.

 

[RTH1800]

The Navy contract SPR barrels as made by Douglas are great.

 

[TheMammoth]

I know a few people who were somewhat disappointed with their BCM SPR barrels.

The Navy contract SPR barrels as made by Douglas are great.

Yeah. I cannot decide wether to dump the gun and grab a PRI unit or replace the barrel with a made to order Bartlein or Douglas.

 

[MontanaMan]

Yeah. I cannot decide wether to dump the gun and grab a PRI unit or replace the barrel with a made to order Bartlein or Douglas.

Why not talk to BCM first & see if they are willing to do anything for you? If you bought that upper complete from them, then it wasn't cheap; they may do something or they might also just tell that's all that they expect it to do, but you've got nothing to lose & everything to gain. As far as I know, they don't publish any satisfaction statements, though.

MM

 

[TheMammoth]

Why not talk to BCM first & see if they are willing to do anything for you? If you bought that upper complete from them, then it wasn't cheap; they may do something or they might also just tell that's all that they expect it to do, but you've got nothing to lose & everything to gain. As far as I know, they don't publish any satisfaction statements, though.

MM

Zero satisfaction statements. I purchased it as a complete rifle. I may try but “my gun isn’t as accurate as I like” is a hard story to sell to a gun company. They don’t know me, and they make no guarantee about their SPR builds.

I have another rifle from them and it’s great but it’s not expected to print cloverleafs lol.

 

[Steel head]

Yeah. I cannot decide wether to dump the gun and grab a PRI unit or replace the barrel with a made to order Bartlein or Douglas.

I'd just upgrade the barrel.
BCM makes decent stuff, It just seems their SPR barrel does not perform to the level that some expect from a SPR type AR.
I certainly didn't build my SPR to blast pop cans at 50 feet with the cheapest ammo I could find.

 

[lennyo3034]

Several years ago I contacted BCM expressing dissatisfaction with my 18” SPR Barrel. Their response was “We’ve never had an issue before”. And that’s it. Replaced it with a Douglas and was very happy.

 

[FishDr]

Try the above mentioned WOA barrel from Brownells. I had one that wasnt up to my satisfaction - sent prob 300-350 rounds downrange trying to find a load that would deliver consistently under 1 MOA, no joy. After 3-4 minths, Brownells took it in return, no questions asked. The WOA replacement barrel is consistently under 1/2” with a few loads, including the second one i tried. Easy load development.

 

[RTH1800]

Above shows what you are getting when you purchase a barrel.
The high end barrels are more likely to deliver excellent accuracy. They deliver consistent accuracy. As you go down in price it gets more hit or miss. Pun intended. You can still find a diamond in the rough, but not as often.
Top barrels have duds as well, just fewer of them.

 

[gamewarden]

My MSTN Noveske shoots phenomenal!

MSTN - Custom Precision AR Rifles, Top Shelf SBR Uppers built from the best components made by premier manufacturers and tested by the most elite shooters in America - MSTN.biz

MSTN builds the finest, most reliable firearms, from the best components made by premier manufacturers, assembled by someone with over 25 years of innovation experience, and tested in the real world by the most elite shooters in America.

mstn.biz

 

[TheMammoth]

My MSTN Noveske shoots phenomenal!

MSTN - Custom Precision AR Rifles, Top Shelf SBR Uppers built from the best components made by premier manufacturers and tested by the most elite shooters in America - MSTN.biz

MSTN builds the finest, most reliable firearms, from the best components made by premier manufacturers, assembled by someone with over 25 years of innovation experience, and tested in the real world by the most elite shooters in America.

mstn.biz

Wow that’s cool. I had no idea they made this, I have their 18” barrel but it’s intermediate gas and I have always wanted to swap it for a rifle length.

 

[Eoddave27]

I

OP has figured out one of the true secrets of life.

Cheap products are rightly held to the exact standards as expensive ones. The only reason others pay for top end items is because they are snobs.

A VW Bug should go just as fast and handle just as well as a Ferrari.

I’m not sure where where everyone gets that I’m bitching about accuracy. I have several mid priced barrels. I don’t think you can consider a $300-350 barrel a budget barrel. The 18” barrels do not perform as well as the 16”and 20” barrels by the same manufacturers. I simply want to know if anyone else has had the same issue. I don’t expect these barrels to perform like a premium barrel. If that was the case I would have bought a premium barrel. On all my bolt guns that is what I did. For my situation the mid price barrels performance has always been excellent so spending the extra money on a premium barrel never made sense. We shoot our AR’s a lot and typically have to replace the barrels every year. After having a few high end barrels and finding they didn’t seem to last significantly longer than the mid priced barrels I decided to stick with mid priced barrels and have been happy that I have. I just have not seen the excellent performance or easy of finding a load with the 18” barrels as I have with the other lengths.

 

[FishDr]

Looks like you found a system that works for your purposes. If that is true, others opinions don’t really matter. Drive on.

 

[Shoots 700's]

I am sure there are other factors besides length.

 

[fxdrider]

The 18” barrels do not perform as well as the 16”and 20” barrels by the same manufacturers. I simply want to know if anyone else has had the same issue.

I replaced my factory 16" (older Bushmaster) with an 18" Criterion. My experience has been that the factory 16" barrel produced better 200 yard groups than I've been able to get with the new Criterion 18" barrel.
.3 MOA with 16" vs. .88" with 18". But...I haven't taken the time to work up a new load for the 18". I may at some point, but for now - slightly under 1 MOA is good enough for my purposes.
I know this is somewhat an apples to oranges comparision as far as similar manufacturers go, but in essence - as far as length is concerned, my experiences are similar to yours.

 

[TheMammoth]

I

I’m not sure where where everyone gets that I’m bitching about accuracy. I have several mid priced barrels. I don’t think you can consider a $300-350 barrel a budget barrel. The 18” barrels do not perform as well as the 16”and 20” barrels by the same manufacturers. I simply want to know if anyone else has had the same issue. I don’t expect these barrels to perform like a premium barrel. If that was the case I would have bought a premium barrel. On all my bolt guns that is what I did. For my situation the mid price barrels performance has always been excellent so spending the extra money on a premium barrel never made sense. We shoot our AR’s a lot and typically have to replace the barrels every year. After having a few high end barrels and finding they didn’t seem to last significantly longer than the mid priced barrels I decided to stick with mid priced barrels and have been happy that I have. I just have not seen the excellent performance or easy of finding a load with the 18” barrels as I have with the other lengths.

Holy hell you burn multiple 223 barrels out per year? That’s awesome.

Have you tried a mid range barrel properly melonited? I’ve heard from a few people that the longevity is drastically increased. Might be worth looking at?

 

[DaleGribble82]

I’ve only ever ran 14.5in pinned and welded, 16in and 20in. I’ve never dabbled with an 18in barrel.

 

[Eoddave27]

Yeah, we shoot every weekend and probably put 1000 rounds a month through our AR’s. I really have to stay on top of my boys to make sure they don’t just say on one gun and cook the barrel. I learned that lesson early on. In general it is one 20 round magazine then go to another gun. We mostly shoot the AR’s in the 300-600 yard range so they aren’t doing mag dumps anyway. We usually take 8-10 guns in multiple calibers to the range and burn through a lot of rimfire ammo as well. If not for rimfire we couldn’t afford to shoot as much as we do. Plus shooting 200-300 yards with a rimfire is pretty challenging by itself. At any rate when you shoot that much it doesn’t take that long to burn through a 223 barrel. I’ll have to look into the melonited barrels. Have you seen any comparisons showing what kind of additional life you can get out of them? If it is enough that may offset the additional cost.

 

[TheMammoth]

Yeah, we shoot every weekend and probably put 1000 rounds a month through our AR’s. I really have to stay on top of my boys to make sure they don’t just say on one gun and cook the barrel. I learned that lesson early on. In general it is one 20 round magazine then go to another gun. We mostly shoot the AR’s in the 300-600 yard range so they aren’t doing mag dumps anyway. We usually take 8-10 guns in multiple calibers to the range and burn through a lot of rimfire ammo as well. If not for rimfire we couldn’t afford to shoot as much as we do. Plus shooting 200-300 yards with a rimfire is pretty challenging by itself. At any rate when you shoot that much it doesn’t take that long to burn through a 223 barrel. I’ll have to look into the melonited barrels. Have you seen any comparisons showing what kind of additional life you can get out of them? If it is enough that may offset the additional cost.

I have not seen a legitimate test, no. I have only seen forum and facebook posts relating to it. I do know that most of the nitrided barrels don't seem to be "high end precision" but I am googling to see if I can find tests/products now.

 

[Constructor]

In short nope, no difference due to length.

 

[MontanaMan]

I

I’m not sure where where everyone gets that I’m bitching about accuracy. I have several mid priced barrels. I don’t think you can consider a $300-350 barrel a budget barrel. The 18” barrels do not perform as well as the 16”and 20” barrels by the same manufacturers. I simply want to know if anyone else has had the same issue. I don’t expect these barrels to perform like a premium barrel. If that was the case I would have bought a premium barrel. On all my bolt guns that is what I did. For my situation the mid price barrels performance has always been excellent so spending the extra money on a premium barrel never made sense. We shoot our AR’s a lot and typically have to replace the barrels every year. After having a few high end barrels and finding they didn’t seem to last significantly longer than the mid priced barrels I decided to stick with mid priced barrels and have been happy that I have. I just have not seen the excellent performance or easy of finding a load with the 18” barrels as I have with the other lengths.

To your original question as re-stated above, no, the 18" barrels that I have are all better than any of the 16" ers, some of which are the same barrel make & same configuration, ie, SS; 18"ers are same as my 20".

I have 6-16"s, 4-18"s & 1-20" so probably not a fair comparison on the 20".

Further, by a noticeable margin, all of the 18"ers are softer, quieter & more pleasant to shoot than any of the 16"s, even the mid-length gas 16"s, all with similar breaks & all tuned to & with the same ammo. However, 2 of my 16"s are KAC's with their intermediate gas system, & they are also noticeably softer shooting than the other 16's with mid or carbine gas.

Other than the slight mobility edge with the 16"s, I'd take an 18" any day over any 16" gun.

JME, YMMV

MM

 

[elmuzzlebreak]

Late to this party but I'll throw X-Cal barrels out there for OP to have a look at.

 

[Eoddave27]

Montanaman, that’s the biggest reason I wanted to switch to an 18” barrel. I have found that the longer barrels with rifle length gas systems have always been nicer to shoot. I may take a chance on another 18” once the current 16” barrel my son is shooting burns out. This time I’ll just pick up a Rock Creek or a WO barrel. They can be had for about the same price as the barrels I’m using now.

 

[Steel head]

To your original question as re-stated above, no, the 18" barrels that I have are all better than any of the 16" ers, some of which are the same barrel make & same configuration, ie, SS; 18"ers are same as my 20".

I have 6-16"s, 4-18"s & 1-20" so probably not a fair comparison on the 20".

Further, by a noticeable margin, all of the 18"ers are softer, quieter & more pleasant to shoot than any of the 16"s, even the mid-length gas 16"s, all with similar breaks & all tuned to & with the same ammo. However, 2 of my 16"s are KAC's with their intermediate gas system, & they are also noticeably softer shooting than the other 16's with mid or carbine gas.

Other than the slight mobility edge with the 16"s, I'd take an 18" any day over any 16" gun.

JME, YMMV

MM

Montanaman, that’s the biggest reason I wanted to switch to an 18” barrel. I have found that the longer barrels with rifle length gas systems have always been nicer to shoot. I may take a chance on another 18” once the current 16” barrel my son is shooting burns out. This time I’ll just pick up a Rock Creek or a WO barrel. They can be had for about the same price as the barrels I’m using now.

I find the 18” rifle gassed AR’s to be very nice shooters.
Everyone who shoots my SPR build raves on how enjoyable it is to shoot and how easy it is to hit stuff they thought beyond an AR’s range.

I sold all my 14.5 and 16” AR’s as I never shot them after I built my SPR.

 

[Eoddave27]

Yeah, I have always thought the 18” barrel was the perfect length for an AR. I just ordered a replacement barrel for the 18” barrel that I wasn’t reall happy with. I got a really good deal on a Proof Research 18” barrel so we will see how it shoots. I have had good luck in the past with the Proof barrels I have had so I guess we will see if my Bad luck with 18’s continues.

 

[MontanaMan]

Yeah, I have always thought the 18” barrel was the perfect length for an AR. I just ordered a replacement barrel for the 18” barrel that I wasn’t reall happy with. I got a really good deal on a Proof Research 18” barrel so we will see how it shoots. I have had good luck in the past with the Proof barrels I have had so I guess we will see if my Bad luck with 18’s continues.

I don't own any PR barrels but I've seen nothing but good out of them & would put them in the high end group, so if you got a good deal, that's a really good thing.

I'm not big on 3 or 5 shot groups & saying that you have an MOA rifle.............10 x2 is what better shows what a gun, ammo & shooter can do & in my case, I definitely think I'm the weakest link, so given that, here are some targets shot with 2 - 18" guns & a 16", front bag only. These were done during load development, so they actually got a little better when finished.

If I could only shoot 1 group, I'd be happier with the results.

 

[Eoddave27]

I’m honestly not into shooting groups either. I do for load development but once I find the load I want that is pretty much it. We set up Steel targets and spinneres between 50 and 600 yards and that is what we shoot. I don’t really care for just shooting off a bench either. that is one of the reasons PRS and NRL22 appeal to me so much.