18" barrel accuracy problems and questions.

[benson821]

Good morning folks,

I have built a new upper my Rock River Arms rifle to be more of a DMR/Predator rifle while keeping it somewhat light and pack-able. I wanted a little longer barrel and handguard for it and running it suppressed. The factory 16" upper would shoot factory ammo and reloads around 1/2" or better if I did my part, but that now has a dedicated night vision on it.

Gun is a Rock River Upper/Lower/BCG, Timney Calvin Elite trigger, Luth AR MBA1, 17" MLOK Handguad, Luth AR gas block, and Wilson gas tube.

So I ordered a Ballistic Advantage 18" 223 Wylde Fluted SPR barrel, got a whole new upper and bcg from Rock River. Put it all together and temporarily put on a Primary Arms 3-18 and since I've put on a 5-25 Strike Eagle from Vortex. I've double checked that the scopes are good. I could not get the first barrel to shoot maybe 1.5" at best over the past year, and that was using every sort of factory ammo I could get my hands on and a couple hundred reloads with different powders, bullets, brass, primers, etc trying to find a "descent node" to work from but no luck. I will add I tried different rests, suppressor on or off, flash hiders, brakes, thread protectors etc just to test everything that "could" be making things go wild.

1 year later I get BA to take the barrel back and send me a new one, I clean it up, install it, get the rifle roughly zeroed and put a 5 shot group down range that is a rough 3/4" and I'm finally getting excited about it. I pack up and put it off to shoot again during the weekend, I take it out that weekend, same rests, ammo, somewhat same conditions and it's shooting a 2" pattern at best. I am now currently out of different factory ammo except for a couple more boxes of Fiocchi 77gr BTHP. On top of all of this I had 2 different very competent shooters and handlaoders shoot and help load for it with no avail with both the old and new barrel.

I'm maybe 150 rounds into the new barrel and a bit fed up with it again, given "barrel break-in" could still be happening.... But my question is what do you folks think, should I keep shooting it, send it back again, or try and get a refund and order a different new barrel??? If new barrel what would you run for a 18" somewhat lighter profile for packing in SW Montana mountains during winter for predators.

Thanks in advance,
Alex




Picture for referance. Of 1 of the configurations.

 

[nn8734]

Cant speculate on the reasons for your troubles but every Douglas Mk12 SPR barrel ive ever owned shot lights out. Current barrel puts 5 rounds in a roughly 6” group @ 500 meters on a fairly regular basis.

If you haven’t already done so, try some Black Hills 77g OTM and see if it will shoot. If it won’t and you’ve ruled everything else out (buffer and spring combos, trigger, anything loose, touching barrel, gas block contact with handguard, etc), id put on a different barrel.

 

[SilencedShooter11B]

In this current ammo environment, shooting a ton of good ammo to break in a barrel and get it shooting is no good. Doesn’t sound like you’ll be happy with the BA no matter what happens

If you need a lightweight barrel for backwoods packing that can shoot well, look at a Proof CF barrel. If THAT doesn’t shoot...it’s the Indian not the arrow lol

 

[Hobo Hilton]

We are in a changing world. The "variables" are swinging wider by the day. Quality and quality control are on the down slope. Point of origin for components are unknown... Sounds to me like you have the weapon "as good as it's going to get". Appears that the manufacturer's have been fair with you by replacing components. You are replacing "like with like"... Interesting topic. Keep us posted.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

150 rounds deep doesn't quite sound like enough to throw in the towel, but BA barrels are kinda luck of the draw.
I'd be looking at this for a relatively inexpensive lighter barrel that should shoot:

Rainier Arms Match .223 Wylde Lightweight Barrel

Rainier Arms Match .223 Wylde Lightweight Barrel Many have asked us to build a barrel with the same workmanship as our UltraMatch barrels while keeping it more affordable. We are able to reach our goal by sourcing a very high end barrel blank at an afford

www.rainierarms.com

 

[Desert_Racer]

As with many things in life, you get what you pay for. This is not to say that you bought garbage. There are many people running budget barrels like BA and getting good accuracy. The thing with the lower cost barrels is that you end up sort of rolling the dice when it comes to accuracy. You may get lucky and get a barrel that shoots, you may not. It may not start shooting well until a couple hundred rounds smooth out all the tooling marks. Who knows?

Conversely, when you pony up the money for a high quality stainless barrel, you know its going to shoot. If it doesn't, the company you bought it from will stand behind it. Brands like these will pretty much guarantee a high level of accuracy (especially when you get into the Douglas and higher realm):

Shilen
Criterion
Douglas
Proof
Krieger
Bartlein

They will cost anywhere from double to possibly quadruple of the BA offering, depending on the options you go with, but you won't spend any time chasing your tail and wasting hundreds in ammo. It will shoot lights out. Its better to be patient and save your money for one, in my opinion. Every single Bartlein and Krieger barrel I have ever owned has been unbelievably accurate. I just got a Mk12 with a Douglas barrel, and it also is insanely accurate. In fact, its one of the most accurate barrels I've ever owned. You can get a Douglas SPR profile barrel for around $400.

People will drop big bucks on fancy billet receiver sets and rails, then skimp on the barrel. The barrel and BCG are the most important components if you want an accurate AR. A high quality barrel and bcg in a cheaper forged set will outshoot a fancy receiver set with a cheap barrel.

 

[drewthebrave]

Good advice so far, but you don't necessarily need to spend 2-4x as much money to get a quality barrel. White Oak Armament offers fantastic barrels under $300 that are going to be much more consistent than your BA. They have a long wait time - if you order now, you might get the barrel around Christmas.

If you're looking for a new barrel right away, I've had great luck with an 18" Bergara SPR barrel from PRI on my Mock 12 build, also available under $300. PRI also sells Douglass barrels in the $450 range that are top tier. Pick your budget and send it.

 

[S197]

Good morning folks,

I have built a new upper my Rock River Arms rifle to be more of a DMR/Predator rifle while keeping it somewhat light and pack-able. I wanted a little longer barrel and handguard for it and running it suppressed. The factory 16" upper would shoot factory ammo and reloads around 1/2" or better if I did my part, but that now has a dedicated night vision on it.

Gun is a Rock River Upper/Lower/BCG, Timney Calvin Elite trigger, Luth AR MBA1, 17" MLOK Handguad, Luth AR gas block, and Wilson gas tube.

So I ordered a Ballistic Advantage 18" 223 Wylde Fluted SPR barrel, got a whole new upper and bcg from Rock River. Put it all together and temporarily put on a Primary Arms 3-18 and since I've put on a 5-25 Strike Eagle from Vortex. I've double checked that the scopes are good. I could not get the first barrel to shoot maybe 1.5" at best over the past year, and that was using every sort of factory ammo I could get my hands on and a couple hundred reloads with different powders, bullets, brass, primers, etc trying to find a "descent node" to work from but no luck. I will add I tried different rests, suppressor on or off, flash hiders, brakes, thread protectors etc just to test everything that "could" be making things go wild.

1 year later I get BA to take the barrel back and send me a new one, I clean it up, install it, get the rifle roughly zeroed and put a 5 shot group down range that is a rough 3/4" and I'm finally getting excited about it. I pack up and put it off to shoot again during the weekend, I take it out that weekend, same rests, ammo, somewhat same conditions and it's shooting a 2" pattern at best. I am now currently out of different factory ammo except for a couple more boxes of Fiocchi 77gr BTHP. On top of all of this I had 2 different very competent shooters and handlaoders shoot and help load for it with no avail with both the old and new barrel.

I'm maybe 150 rounds into the new barrel and a bit fed up with it again, given "barrel break-in" could still be happening.... But my question is what do you folks think, should I keep shooting it, send it back again, or try and get a refund and order a different new barrel??? If new barrel what would you run for a 18" somewhat lighter profile for packing in SW Montana mountains during winter for predators.

Thanks in advance,
Alex




Picture for referance. Of 1 of the configurations.
View attachment 7730154

BA only commits to a three shot MOA and most of their barrels open up after that. When BA first came out, they made a good product at a good price but that BA is long gone. Reach out to WOA for a house barrel, they have a SPR in stock at 275.00. and WOA has won tons of competitions. https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/shop/barrels.html?cat=106

 

[camocorvette]

How did the barrel fit into the upper? Tight or loose? Did you shim it? Did you bed it with loctite? What is your barrel nut torqued to? Have you messed with the torque? Is your 17" handguard touching the gas block or barrel when you load the bipod?
Lots of little things

 

[benson821]

Barrel was a little snug. Did not shim or bed it. Nut torqued between 35-65, tried different torques. Nothing is touching the handguard I clearances the handguard generously just to make sure. I've tried everything I can possibly think of. Going to give it another try in the next couple weeks and if no go I'm going with another barrel.

 

[gixxer822]

do you have a bore scope to see if theres anything excessive? i have 4 BA barrels and installed multiple with mediocre performance like they claim except for one. they arent lapped at all and have very sharp edges. i also had a gas port that was drilled way to small. i would also look to see what you get without your suppressor on.

 

[camocorvette]

Well at least you covered those bases.

Is it a 1/7 twist? Scope rings and base screws are torqued to spec?

 

[KYAggie]

Like others have said, maybe the barrel is a little rough or the crown is messed up? You could always try those Tubbs bullets imbedded with different grits to see if they will smooth it up. I think they are called Final Finish? Not sure if he still makes them.

As for barrels that are light, I’ve had excellent results with Faxon gunner weight and pencil weight in 5.56 and 308. My last 308 16” gunner weight repeatedly puts 1982 Maylasian surplus in 1” five shot groups at 100 yards with a 1-6 power scope. I was stunned to say the least, I can’t wait to put some good match ammo down it.

 

[ssc45]

I am far from an expert. I do not have the patience for shooting tiny groups. I do have friends who are very patient and have the skills and proper equipment to test a rifle for accuracy. We had a test day last week and I took out 3 rifles. My friends got 3/4 inch 5 shot groups from my rifles using handloads. I prefer to shoot fast from a shooting bag and make head shots. In essence, my rifles exceed my ability.

Therefore if you and your friends have the ability and proper gear to test the accuracy of your rifle, then it comes down to the gear and or the build quality. By failing to properly bed the barrel, I would question build quality. Not being an ass, just giving thoughts. Perhaps shim or use loctite 620. I would also agree that there are much better barrels on the market if you are looking for 1/2 MOA. There are also certain upper receivers that hold tighter tolerances respecting fitting barrels. YMMV.

Cheers, Steve

 

[zink14]

what twist on the bbl? and how tight did you tighten the muzzle brake? also make sure the gas block can not make contact whith the hand guard push up and down/ side to side on the muzzle see if the gas block is contacting anything or just take the hand guard off and shoot it

 

[hlee]

I put an 6.5 creedmoor “AR10” together for my dad using a BA barrel. Shoots MOA. But, I didn’t buy it, and I’ll not claim that’s what I would expect to achieve every time. Your problem, if we can call it that, is BA. Full stop. The good ones can be very good, but you never know what you’re going to get.

 

[MontanaMan]

but BA barrels are kinda luck of the draw.

This^^^^^^^^ I know from experience.

And what Desert Racer said.

MM

 

[BCP]

I would use known good ammo and front/rear bags or a lead sled. If it doesn't shoot under an inch then take it off and get something else.

 

[Billiam1211]

Here's my SPR with the Ballistic Advantage 18-inch SPR fluted barrel. Currently 1-8x Primary Arms Platinum Griffin MIL scope on it and I'm shooting 77gr Nosler CCs with 24.5gr of Varget in Lake City Brass. From prone pretty much all my groups look like the one below, usually 1/2-5/8 MOA. Maybe I got lucky with my barrel.

Not to be facetious, but do you usually shoot 1/2 MOA groups with other rifles? Maybe have another shooter, who you know if a great shot print some groups just as a sanity check. Semi autos took me a couple of years to be able to print sub-minute groups.

In the realm of large-frame ARs in .308 Win I went through 3 barrels from Ballistic Advantage and all 3 were returned. Headspace gauges closed on NO-GO and Field Gauges, accuracy was around 2-3 MOA with match ammo and reloads. They were just bad. Moving forward for gas guns I think any barrel I buy will be from Compass Lake or Craddock Precision.

 

[benson821]

Here's my SPR with the Ballistic Advantage 18-inch SPR fluted barrel. Currently 1-8x Primary Arms Platinum Griffin MIL scope on it and I'm shooting 77gr Nosler CCs with 24.5gr of Varget in Lake City Brass. From prone pretty much all my groups look like the one below, usually 1/2-5/8 MOA. Maybe I got lucky with my barrel.

Not to be facetious, but do you usually shoot 1/2 MOA groups with other rifles? Maybe have another shooter, who you know if a great shot print some groups just as a sanity check. Semi autos took me a couple of years to be able to print sub-minute groups.

In the realm of large-frame ARs in .308 Win I went through 3 barrels from Ballistic Advantage and all 3 were returned. Headspace gauges closed on NO-GO and Field Gauges, accuracy was around 2-3 MOA with match ammo and reloads. They were just bad. Moving forward for gas guns I think any barrel I buy will be from Compass Lake or Craddock Precision.

Yes, every rifle I have built either AR or bolt gun has been sub MOA if not hovering around 1/2 MOA. I did have 2 other very competent shooters shoot it as well with the same erratic groupings.

I'm going to give the barrel another try here again with a couple other ammos and see how it does. If no joy I will be contacting the company again and seeing if I can get my money back.

Just set up an account with Criterion through the shop today and plan on getting one of their barrels on order if this one doesn't play nice.

Thank you folks for all your insight and help. I can build some pretty dang good bolt guns and assemble AR's and diagnose problems with them but the accuracy with this one has me thrown for a loop. Again thank you all.

 

[MrPaul]

I bought a rock river upper with a 20" barrel about 10 years ago. It still shoots great. Definitely sub moa and maybe 1/2 moa on a good day with the right load. Rock River makes a good barrel. I may be wrong but i think their stainless barrels are cooper blanks which were pretty good in their day. I have a ballistic advantage .224 v but haven't shot it yet so i can't make a comparrison for you but.....I wouldn't replace my rock river barrel with a B.A. just my 2 cents.

 

[Evlshnngns]

I was looking at that exact barrel, would be perfect if it shot well. How did this end up?

The other one on my list is the faxon gunner 18, it's lite and I wouldn't expect it to match an spr contour. I probably need to get a cut rifled barrel to hit my weight and accuracy goals.

 

[BCP]

I would take a BA or a green mountain blank chambered/contoured by a gunsmith over a faxon.

 

[bill_van]

Did you check for copper build-up in the bore? Some of the non top shelf barrels are not finished out that well and if rough, sucks the copper right off the bullet! Once had a customer complain about accuracy on a stainless match 20"after 100 rds. Ran a patch down the barrel with Sweets 7.62 and it came out looking like a clear blue sky! Cleaned it up for about an hour and accuracy returned to .5 moa. That was years back but it's an easy check and fix. Good Luck & good shooting!

 

[tucaz]

i recently bought a BA 18" SPR modern 5.56 chambered barrel, not stainless and it absolutely shoots right at 1 MOA with IMI 77gr. at 400 yards its easily minute-of-bowling ball everytime.

maybe you got one of the infamous BA duds.

 

[tomme boy]

2 BA barrels that did not meet anywhere near their claim. Both were replaced then sold as new replacements. One was a 14.5" Hanson and the other was a 18" spr ss black series. Both were 223 wylde

Here is the throat on the 18" That ledge was all the way around in the throat.

I ended up replacing it with a WOA 18" SPR Fluted. 223 wylde. First group just breaking in the barrel by shooting 5 single rounds then clean between each one i ended up with a 0.75" group. That was with Hornady 62gr hpbt and tac for powder using mixed brass blasting ammo. It has since shot 5 groups of under 0.5" with 60gr vmax and varget

 

[benson821]

I was looking at that exact barrel, would be perfect if it shot well. How did this end up?

The other one on my list is the faxon gunner 18, it's lite and I wouldn't expect it to match an spr contour. I probably need to get a cut rifled barrel to hit my weight and accuracy goals.

@Evlshnngns the new barrel will barely squeak out 1" groups with factory ammo but usually shooting 1-1/4" to 1-5/8" rough groups. I have a reload I've worked up for it that hovers around 3/4" with 68gr HPBT. I'm still not that impressed with it but it does barely squeak into their "gaurentee" of sub moa occasionally.

Did you check for copper build-up in the bore? Some of the non top shelf barrels are not finished out that well and if rough, sucks the copper right off the bullet! Once had a customer complain about accuracy on a stainless match 20"after 100 rds. Ran a patch down the barrel with Sweets 7.62 and it came out looking like a clear blue sky! Cleaned it up for about an hour and accuracy returned to .5 moa. That was years back but it's an easy check and fix. Good Luck & good shooting!

@bill_van I shot the gun dirty, clean, cleaned every 20-60 rounds trying to find the "fouled" sweet spot and it doesn't seem to make a difference.



I have a 18" Criterion Core barrel sitting in the shop I'm going to give a try, I've known quite a few people who will swear by them.

 

[TapRackBang]

The best barrels for ARs I have bought have come from different manufacturers but the common trait in all of them was those barrel makers all made barrels for DCM Service Rifle.

 

[Dildobaggins]

I have a BA barrel that I tried about 12 different brands of ammo out of and Ive maybe shot 2 groups that were moa or sub moa. Built an accuracy driven AR a few months back with a White oak armament barrel and shot a few groups in the .2s and many in the .3s, .4s and .5s when working on a load for it with h335 and 55gr Hornady soft points. WOA barrels are nasty, and they are cheap compared to JP, Krieger, bartlien, etc. not knocking them at all. They make great stuff, but for the price you can't beat a WOA.

 

[Constructor]

I would take a BA or a green mountain blank chambered/contoured by a gunsmith over a faxon.

Have you ever looked at the bore of a green Mountain with a borescope? I'll never buy another one.

 

[Constructor]

Okay, First outing was 3/4 MOA, next trip 2"? What happened between? Hate to put it this way but the barrel didn't change by itself in the safe. I would start looking at the bore, copper fouling, how was it cleaned, is the scope loose?

 

[BCP]

Have you ever looked at the bore of a green Mountain with a borescope? I'll never buy another one.

My most disappointing barrel from a big name manufacturer scoped fine. Good barrels can be kinda ugly too. It's just another tool.

 

[Constructor]

My most disappointing barrel from a big name manufacturer scoped fine. Good barrels can be kinda ugly too. It's just another tool.

Oh yeah I know another company that makes decent tubes but they can't cut a good crown for shit but, that is easy to find and fix. After 40 years in the business I have tried them all, we all have a list.

 

[tucaz]

Okay, First outing was 3/4 MOA, next trip 2"? What happened between? Hate to put it this way but the barrel didn't change by itself in the safe. I would start looking at the bore, copper fouling, how was it cleaned, is the scope loose?

i have good days and bad days too.

was it windy the 2” day?

 

[Twitchy]

I have a BA barrel that I tried about 12 different brands of ammo out of and Ive maybe shot 2 groups that were moa or sub moa. Built an accuracy driven AR a few months back with a White oak armament barrel and shot a few groups in the .2s and many in the .3s, .4s and .5s when working on a load for it with h335 and 55gr Hornady soft points. WOA barrels are nasty, and they are cheap compared to JP, Krieger, bartlien, etc. not knocking them at all. They make great stuff, but for the price you can't beat a WOA.

I've had 5 or 6 barrels for my MK12s and all but one was WOA. The 6th was a Rainier and that shot pretty damn good.

All but 200 rounds fired in all of them were my handloads. 77g SMK with a stout load of Varget. The 200 were BH 77g OTM (SMK) and 77g TMK loads that shot pretty good.

WOA may be "budget" but has alway shot good to great for me.


FYI, I also did a little bit of testing for Green Mountain years back. The owner gave out barrels for free if you tested them. I tested 1:9, 1:8, 1:7, and 1:5 barrels from them. All shot decent.

 

[Shoots 700's]

People expect magic groups from bargin barrels, yes, you can get lucky. Buy thE best you can and don't bitch when it doesn’t shoot or go the premium route