185 Juggernaut velocity in a 16" 308?

[RyeDaddy]

Anybody using the Berger 185 Juggernaut in a short 308 AR? What velocities are reasonable to expect?

I've been shooting 155 Scenars at 2650 and 168 Amax's at 2520fps over IMR 8208XBR in a 16.5" P-308. Running out of powder and bullets and thinking about switching to the 185 Berger as I've never tried heavy bullets in this rifle. According to JBM I can save 4" of drift at 1000 with a 10 mph crosswind(vs the 155) if I can get the 185's over 2400fps. I'd be switching back to Varget with the 185.

Just wondering if 2400fps is attainable without losing primer pockets early? 175 grain FGMM clocks 2420 fps in this gun for reference.

I don't want to order a bunch of bullets and powder if someone can tell me up front it won't get the speed I'm looking for. If I can't get what I'm looking for I'll just order more 8208 and 155's.

 

[40xs]

You will be close! Especially if you are already getting 2420 from the FGMM. Mainly due to the fact that the Berger Juggers have a very liberal ogive which allows you to seat them way out. Keep in mind that the B.C. is tied, in part, to the velocity of any projectile. I'm getting 2770 with that bullet but I have 13 more inches of barrel than you do.

 

[rjacobs]

Out of a 20" AAC-SD I was getting high 2400's with the 185 juggernaut and R17. I would guess somewhere in the 2300 range would be achievable unless you can load way out long to cram some extra powder in the case. I dont have that option as I am limited to roughly 2.800 due to mag length limitation as well as bullets catching on the feed ramp. I can physically load to ALMOST 2.900 in the AI mag(high 2.8xx) but anything above 2.82-2.83 the tip of the bullet catches on the feed ramp.

ETA: After doing load workup and shooting around 200 of the Berger 185's I just couldnt justify the extra cost(almost double) over the 175g Nosler CC's(basically a copy of the 175g SMK) for very little extra performance out of my gun. I am sure there are guys that can push them way harder and get better performance down range, but I just cant out of my 20" barrel. I havent put any 155 SMK's or Lapua Scenar's through my bolt gun, but my LMW MWS absolutely LOVES the 155g stuff(1/2 MOA consistently) and shoots the 175's like shit(1-1.25 MOA).

 

[softcock]

Hard road with only 16" barrel & it is whole different animal to load for than an 18" or 20" barrel in .308. especially Gasgun .
Got to dump the Varget & R15 mindset in 16" SS barrel length & Gasgun . I got 175 smk's to comfortable 2600 fps Vel. with IMR 3031 with somewhere around 42.5 grn. & ( brass looked great after also) . That performance beats the 185's @ 2400 vel.for holdovers & wind .
.

 

[RyeDaddy]

Thanks for the help guys. Seems like I'll be working my dick off to get a small gain in wind and putting up with more recoil and drop too. But if I don't try I'll always be thinking about it.

Update: I found about 50 of the 185 VLD's left over in my reloading room from a long forgotten 300 WSM I had. Looking at Berger's data, the VLD has more bearing surface than the LRBT so if I can get the VLD up to speed without pressure I should be able to with the Juggernaut as well.

I plan on loading a few to test for velocity and pressure with Varget, H4350(this will prob be worthless but gonna do it anyway, outside the box thinking) and I have a buddy who will donate some IMR 3031 and 4064 for me to check out per softcock's suggestion on the former. This next month would be the perfect time to do pressure testing with the summer heat.

I'll post back results within a month or so for anyone who finds this in the future.

 

[Tx_Flyboy]

Ryedaddy,

Your best bet (velocity wise) is with powders such as RL-17 & 2000MR...but go for accuracy over velcity.

I hope this starts to let you know that all the BS about how awesome short barrels are is promulgated by people that don't shoot for precision/accuracy.

 

[RyeDaddy]

I got around to trying just 2 powders before a friend made an offer I couldn't refuse and sold the rifle. Updating for people who find this in the future.

Varget I got 2400 FPS with 43.5 grains, pressure started at 44.0.

IMR 8208 XBR could only get 2320 FPS before pressure. 2320 was at 40.8 grains. Pressure at 41.1.

 

[RobertB]

I just got done shooting my 16" GAP at 1152 yards with southwest 175 Match. I'm getting 2525 out of it so I don't know what the difference would be for you. I might be wrong but it seems like these bartliens get good speed out of em.

 

[richidaho]

I'm shooting a bolt 700 SA .308 with a 26" twist rate 1:8 barrel using RL-17, 47.6 grains and shooting 2700+ with the VLD 185g. I would not try this load in a AR platform gun but I would try starting load development at 43 grains RL-17 and working up from there. This power and bullet has produced the best results from my .308 I have ever achieved < .5 MOA. If the operator can shoot that day. Reading the post I did not see you note your barrel twist rate unsure if you can stabilize this bullet with < 1:12. The results I'm receiving with this load in the .308 are extremely good. I hit a 1045 yard target 5 times in a row with this load in a 8 mph +- 4 wind. I was pumped. Hardly anyone could hit this target that day with the wind problem; gusting up to 12 mph and slacking at 4 mph. Only other gun that could hit that target with consistence was a .338 LM shooting 300g VLD's. I'm sure other guns could achieve this result but I was pumped I could do it.

Rich L