18Inch 6.5CM Competition Viability

[ImGomer]

I am finishing up my first 6.5 build and ended up going with a 18Inch 6.5 Barrel from Criterion paired with a JP Bolt. I shoot mainly suppressed (I have both a 6inch Omega 36M and a 9inch Saker 7.62 can) so I figure with rough math my velocity is roughly that of between a 20inch and 22inch gun?

My question is weather or not 18Inch 6.5 Gas Guns are viable in PRS. I’m assuming most people are running 22inch guns with a “screw hearing when I’m 40” comp. Running the numbers I cant see a huge difference but am curious from everyone’s experience how viable it would be for someone to run a Suppressed 18Inch 6.5CM in competition.

*Bonus Question* Why should I run a JP Silent Capture Door Spring over a Rifle Super 42 with a tuned Buffer?

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I'd bet the most common barrel length is between 24 and 26 inches, not 22.

Is it viable, yes. Show up and shoot.

 

[ImGomer]

I'd bet the most common barrel length is between 24 and 26 inches, not 22.

Is it viable, yes. Show up and shoot.

I figured as much. Really never got into PRS until I read about PRS Gas as it sounded really fun. Unfortunately it seems to have died?

TBH I have no idea what this build is for and now that I’m towards the end I figured that a Sub MOA Gas 6.5 CM could compete in PRS so why not

Out of curiosity I was looking at the MK5 3.4x18 but I’m seeing most rigs going with a 5-25. I’m assuming the 5-25 MK5 or Razor Gen 2 might be more applicable if I do want to push this little bugger into some competition?

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I'm not sure if there's a category for gas guns at all the matches, but you could still compete with it. I wouldn't let it hold you back from attending.

As for a scope, I prefer something with 25x or there abouts for a centerfire rifle.

I do run a 3-18 on my rimfire rifle but that's a different ball game.

For the most part, 18x will serve you well.

 

[Newbie2020]

18x is plenty; higher high-end mag improves clarity in the middle magnification

I rarely go above 12-15x until >1,000; My 4-20x is plenty

the shorter barrel obviously cuts down on your velocity; if you reload you could run a hotter load. Normal target velocity for a 6.5cm is around 2,850 FPS.

But you won’t give up anything as long as you’ve got a JP tack driver except ELR or higher wind conditions

 

[ImGomer]

18x is plenty; higher high-end mag improves clarity in the middle magnification

I rarely go above 12-15x until >1,000; My 4-20x is plenty

the shorter barrel obviously cuts down on your velocity; if you reload you could run a hotter load. Normal target velocity for a 6.5cm is around 2,850 FPS.

But you won’t give up anything as long as you’ve got a JP tack driver except ELR or higher wind conditions

So in my shoes do I get the Leupold Mark 5 3.6-18 or 5-25 (Probably Tremor 3 Illuminated?)

 

[Sheldon N]

Running the numbers I cant see a huge difference but am curious from everyone’s experience how viable it would be for someone to run a Suppressed 18Inch 6.5CM in competition.

Shooting a PRS style competition with a suppressed 18" 6.5CM gas gun is possible, but it will be difficult. It's not about the ballistics or velocity, that will be fine. Raw accuracy might be a bit more difficult to achieve than a bolt gun, but if you can get it shooting under 1" at 100 yards then that won't be a major issue either.

The main challenge is going to be recoil management and spotting your shots. You have to be much more "on point" with your recoil management to maintain accuracy with a gas-gun when shooting from barricades or other unstable positions. The smaller/lighter gun, additional moving parts with bolt carrier group/buffer spring, plus the heavier caliber with a suppressor will mean that you might have 200 or 300% of the recoil when compared to a 6mm muzzle braked heavy bolt action rifle that most are using. It will be both harder to be accurate at distance and also harder to spot and correct for misses due to wind.

If "viable" means able to go to a match, have fun and hit targets, then absolutely go out and shoot. However, if you want to shoot matches regularly and start to be competitive, then I don't know if I would recommend it as your sole competition rifle.

 

[ImGomer]

Shooting a PRS style competition with a suppressed 18" 6.5CM gas gun is possible, but it will be difficult. It's not about the ballistics or velocity, that will be fine. Raw accuracy might be a bit more difficult to achieve than a bolt gun, but if you can get it shooting under 1" at 100 yards then that won't be a major issue either.

The main challenge is going to be recoil management and spotting your shots. You have to be much more "on point" with your recoil management to maintain accuracy with a gas-gun when shooting from barricades or other unstable positions. The smaller/lighter gun, additional moving parts with bolt carrier group/buffer spring, plus the heavier caliber with a suppressor will mean that you might have 200 or 300% of the recoil when compared to a 6mm muzzle braked heavy bolt action rifle that most are using. It will be both harder to be accurate at distance and also harder to spot and correct for misses due to wind.

If "viable" means able to go to a match, have fun and hit targets, then absolutely go out and shoot. However, if you want to shoot matches regularly and start to be competitive, then I don't know if I would recommend it as your sole competition rifle.

Ah the poor wife’s reaction to my upcoming 24inch Criterion Chassied Bolt gun resulting from this thread won’t end well

Also care to chime in? With this 18inch 6.5 Gas build would you go 3.6-18 or 5-25 Leupold MK5 (Ima go Tremor 3 illuminated prob)?

 

[Newbie2020]

So in my shoes do I get the Leupold Mark 5 3.6-18 or 5-25 (Probably Tremor 3 Illuminated?)

5-25

I actually just bought the mark 5 7-35x

Again, it’s not about using your max magnification, but staying midway between your high and low power will give the best clarity and also a more forgiving eyebox.

you’ll rarely find a need in long range for rhe 3x. Most won’t go under 7x

 

[ImGomer]

5-25

I actually just bought the mark 5 7-35x

Again, it’s not about using your max magnification, but staying midway between your high and low power will give the best clarity and also a more forgiving eyebox.

you’ll rarely find a need in long range for rhe 3x. Most won’t go under 7x

It’s crazy I used to shoot my M110 out to 1200 with a 2-10 and now my damn AR Rocks a 1-10 and people are scoffing at scopes below 25 power for Gas gun the times have changed lol

 

[Newbie2020]

Sorry. 25 and 35 power aren’t necessary, just a slight improvement. Inside 700 yds I use 12x.

It’s a clarity and eyebox issue not a “you need 25x” issue. IM(extremely)HO. YMMV.

 

[ImGomer]

Sorry. 25 and 35 power aren’t necessary, just a slight improvement. Inside 700 yds I use 12x.

It’s a clarity and eyebox issue not a “you need 25x” issue. IM(extremely)HO. YMMV.

In the day an age of Badger Ordance mounted RMRs(or T2s) there is little need for the low end magnification. So I’m leaning twords the 5x25 for the added ability to better spot behind the gun. The lose of x1 on the low end and gain of x7 on the high end seem worth the weight.

Plus the 5x25 seems to have a much better resale

Now to decide between the H59(used the H58 on the M2010 when I was in so it’s a bit more familiar) or the Tremor 3....

 

[ImGomer]

Shooting a PRS style competition with a suppressed 18" 6.5CM gas gun is possible, but it will be difficult. It's not about the ballistics or velocity, that will be fine. Raw accuracy might be a bit more difficult to achieve than a bolt gun, but if you can get it shooting under 1" at 100 yards then that won't be a major issue either.

The main challenge is going to be recoil management and spotting your shots. You have to be much more "on point" with your recoil management to maintain accuracy with a gas-gun when shooting from barricades or other unstable positions. The smaller/lighter gun, additional moving parts with bolt carrier group/buffer spring, plus the heavier caliber with a suppressor will mean that you might have 200 or 300% of the recoil when compared to a 6mm muzzle braked heavy bolt action rifle that most are using. It will be both harder to be accurate at distance and also harder to spot and correct for misses due to wind.

If "viable" means able to go to a match, have fun and hit targets, then absolutely go out and shoot. However, if you want to shoot matches regularly and start to be competitive, then I don't know if I would recommend it as your sole competition rifle.

So what your saying is turn the gas off and run a straight pull then add 01734727717161 Mlok weights

 

[Newbie2020]

plus 1 on resale of 5-25x

I use H59 and my mark5 is tremor3.

Not a lotta love for either in the PRS-type crowd.....

 

[Sheldon N]

Ah the poor wife’s reaction to my upcoming 24inch Criterion Chassied Bolt gun resulting from this thread won’t end well

Also care to chime in? With this 18inch 6.5 Gas build would you go 3.6-18 or 5-25 Leupold MK5 (Ima go Tremor 3 illuminated prob)?

Now you're talking... build 2 guns!

On an 18" 6.5 gas gun I'd go 3.6-18, scope just seems to fit the platform better.

For PRS on your bolt gun definitely 5-25, but get the new PR2 reticle and not Tremor 3.

 

[ImGomer]

Now you're talking... build 2 guns!

On an 18" 6.5 gas gun I'd go 3.6-18, scope just seems to fit the platform better.

For PRS on your bolt gun definitely 5-25, but get the new PR2 reticle and not Tremor 3.

What reticle? I figure for this gun a H59 or Tremor 3 is super efficient as they are designed for rapid target correction.

Frankly any shot you can make at x25 you should be able to make at x18 right

But I kinda like the “DMR”/“Bug Wallet” Hunter setup haha

 

[Newbie2020]

The Mark 5HD and PR2 Reticle | Leupold

Developed with input from the country’s top competitors and professional shooters, the Mark 5HD with PR2 reticles are specifically designed for long-range speed and precision. Be Relentless

www.leupold.com

 

[Newbie2020]

Not a lot of love for the wind dots in the Tremor3 on the Hide......

A lot of competitors have moved to dialing both drop AND windage now so they’re moving away from Christmas tree reticles in general. At very least they prefer a much simplified Christmas tree and less noise around the main crosshairs

 

[ImGomer]

Not a lot of love for the wind dots in the Tremor3 on the Hide......

A lot of competitors have moved to dialing both drop AND windage now so they’re moving away from Christmas tree reticles in general. At very least they prefer a much simplified Christmas tree and less noise around the main crosshairs

DIAL WIND

Idk about dialing for something that changes so much! But I suppose in a competitive setting there isn’t as many variables as a military setting where there is nothing but change.

 

[Newbie2020]

Frank @lowlight says there’s a psychological benefit of dialing the wind and holding crosshairs on the center of target. It (a) gives a more defined hold point and (b) forces rhe shooter to own his wind call vs “hold left edge”...

 

[Newbie2020]

this is the PR2. They like the cleaner area surrounding the crosshairs until you get 2 mils holdover

 

[ImGomer]

View attachment 7622269
this is the PR2. They like the cleaner area surrounding the crosshairs until you get 2 mils holdover

I like that setup but the Horus Reticles offer SO much more. ESPECIALLY for movers. I think it’s easy to get lost in the Crosshairs but once I got a lot of time on it the H58 became really subconscious. Kinda like a pilot and his million switches. He uses them all just not all the time

I’ll probably grab a Tremor 3 3.6-18 for my 18inch 6.5 Gasser and try that reticle in the 5x25 I’ll eventually get for my Gas Gun (unless I decide to go with the Vortex).

The weight of the 3.6-18 seem really like a good pair with the “do all” 6.5 setup.

 

[Mr. F]

I'll take a stab at this

As Sheldon said above, if your goal is to have fun you'll hit stuff with your rig. If you want to be at least a bit competitive the 18" stick puts you at a of speed disadvantage even on the gas gun div. Granted, its in there so you re rolling with it.

Id start looking for 120gr and 130gr bullets so you can get some speed cuz you aint gonna gas the 140s 143s 147s with a 18"

Scope wise the Mk5 3.6 is fine but IF you wanna help yourself hit stuff go for something heavier like the Razor or the MK5 5 - 25. Your shooting a light gun already, i wouldn't go light on the glass.

Also I see absolutely no need for the 3.6 low end at a match, none. Shots under 200yds are rare and you should be able to engage those with a 5-7X low end. There is a case to be made for higher mag too with longer shots and 6.5s. By running a lower top end mag you miss out on some of the 6.5 "splash" on first round misses when engaging stuff far out. If you can manage recoil effectively you can capitalize on having more top end.

Most shots you'll take at 12 -15x anyway so if you ask me, i rather zero check at 25x than at 18x on a board thats moving because of wind...

 

[308pirate]

I am finishing up my first 6.5 build and ended up going with a 18Inch 6.5 Barrel from Criterion paired with a JP Bolt. I shoot mainly suppressed (I have both a 6inch Omega 36M and a 9inch Saker 7.62 can) so I figure with rough math my velocity is roughly that of between a 20inch and 22inch gun?

My question is weather or not 18Inch 6.5 Gas Guns are viable in PRS. I’m assuming most people are running 22inch guns with a “screw hearing when I’m 40” comp. Running the numbers I cant see a huge difference but am curious from everyone’s experience how viable it would be for someone to run a Suppressed 18Inch 6.5CM in competition.

*Bonus Question* Why should I run a JP Silent Capture Door Spring over a Rifle Super 42 with a tuned Buffer?

I'll give you the same exact answer I give people who ask me "is such a such pistol viable for USPSA?"

Yes, your rifle is viable. Is it optimal? Maybe, maybe not. Does it matter? Not right now.

Just like in USPSA, you will not do well (by well meaning near the top of the results) in your first season unless you are a freaking prodigy.

Use what you have and figure out if you like PRS. If you like it and want a competitive firearm then observe, ask questions, then buy. Same exact advice goes for optics and accessories.