1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

[LegioX]

Just a heads up.
http://www.creedmoorsports.com/shop/1903-A4-Sniper-Rifle.html

http://www.creedmoorsports.com/shop/1903-A3-Rifle.html

I really like the looks of these. Here's a write up Dennis DeMille did from the Shot Show.

<span style="font-weight: bold">New 1903-A3s and 1903-A4s Coming to Creedmoor Sports

General Manager, Dennis DeMille, quickly spotted one of ournewest products at this year's ShotShow this week. These are his comments to our Facebook friends:


"Still at the show, but here is a bit more info: The rifles are all built by Curt Wolfe at Rock Ridge Machine works. Dave Emary introduced us and gave him his highest endorsement. (Can't get a better endorsement than Dave's.) These rifles are NICE! Issue condition nice. Much nicer than the one I set the record with. The A4's are original Remington actions, turned down GI bolt (all fire control parts are original GI parts), walnut stained reproduction "C" stock, new 30-06 4 groove barrel 1-10 twist, replica Weaver 330C (M73B1) scope, original GI buttplate, includes reproduction of original GI manual and Leather military sling. We'll be selling the A4's for somewhere around $1,075. The A3 are original Smith Corona M1903 actions, click adjustable iron sights, and will be available in both "Scant C" stocks and straight stocks. We'll sell those for around $875. We should have some of all models in stock within a few weeks."

NOTE: These are NOT re-welded receivers.



</span>

 

[kraigWY]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

I saw that. My experence with Creedmoor has been good quality products. I don't think they sell jumk.

I just might buy one of those '04s unless someone comes up some info its a bum deal.

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Damn, this post could cost me some money.

 

[Marksman]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

I'll look forward to a comparison between these and a Gibbs. I'd also be interested in knowing more about the "replica" scope that comes with it and if it's of any quality.

 

[Surffshr]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

The A4's got my attention. I definitely want to know more about them. Especially the glass.

 

[Marksman]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Now if someone would make a 1903A1 to be used with the Leatherwood 8x reproduction unertl scope ....

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

For $1100 that <span style="text-decoration: underline">looks</span> like good value...provided it is not a thrown together POS with incorrect and poor quality repro parts like the Gibbs that my mate got!

Here's an original A4 for sale right now in the UK:

http://www.kirkemmerich.co.uk/fac-rifles...4-sniper-rifle/

That's around $6,750.

 

[1kHIT]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

+1! Hoping it's a good value!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For $1100 that <span style="text-decoration: underline">looks</span> like good value...provided it is not a thrown together POS with incorrect and poor quality repro parts like the Gibbs that my mate got!

Here's an original A4 for sale right now in the UK:

http://www.kirkemmerich.co.uk/fac-rifles...4-sniper-rifle/

That's around $6,750. </div></div>

 

[Pepper]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Surffshr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The A4's got my attention. I definitely want to know more about them. Especially the glass.
</div></div>

There are a couple of better pictures here: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012...eedmoor-sports/ The scope is a Hi-Lux.

 

[BountyHunter]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For $1100 that <span style="text-decoration: underline">looks</span> like good value...provided it is not a thrown together POS with incorrect and poor quality repro parts like the Gibbs that my mate got!

</div></div>

will let you know. I bought one of the A4s and shipping mid Feb hopefully.

 

[USMC mustang]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

That's surprisingly affordable for the A4. With the high price of original A4s and the growing popularity of vintage sniper matches I would have expected them to be a little bit more.

I have a SA 1903A1 and SC 1903A3, the A3 is one of my favorite guns and I shoot it quite often. The A1 collects a lot of dust.

 

[1kHIT]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

I have one on order as well. Looking forward to getting it!

 

[Joop]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

I'm hoping you guys will grace us with some range reports?

Since I'll never likely be able to afford the real deal, this would be a nice way to get something representative, at least.

 

[Mudcat-NC]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Not to rain on anyones parade but you need to read some of Dennis' follow up on these as the ARE recovered drill rifle receivers. He found out after the above comments were posted and he advised us all over on NM forum so folks were aware. Still a really good way to get a good shooter as long as you dont mind using a drill rifle receiver.

John

see this thread for more info: http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20523

 

[JCB]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Is there any more information on the scope on the A4? Is it a different one than what came on the Gibbs rifles?

 

[Pepper]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

I emailed Creedmoor about the scope and they updated their website: Riflescope is replica of original Weaver 330C (M73G2). This the 2nd generation scope: http://ows-ammo.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=60&products_id=586

 

[1kHIT]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

So how is this scope different from the one on Gibbs? Better? Worse?

 

[JCB]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Thanks for the scope update. Hopefully this scope is better than the one on a friends Gibbs rifle. His was one of the original Gibbs scopes and it is the "correct shape" but that's about the only thing positive I saw in it.

 

[Pepper]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1kHIT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So how is this scope different from the one on Gibbs? Better? Worse?

</div></div>

This is the 2nd generation scope that Gibbs is now putting on their rifles. It has not been out too long and I have not read any reports on it, but on paper, it is a huge quality improvement. I think the fact that Gibbs is offering a $175 credit on the 1st generation scope towards the new one speaks for itself. What I would like to do is install the Hi-Lux 8X USMC-Sniper Scope on the Creedmoor rifle.

 

[1kHIT]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

This is the 2nd generation scope that Gibbs is now putting on their rifles. It has not been out too long and I have not read any reports on it, but on paper, it is a huge quality improvement. I think the fact that Gibbs is offering a $175 credit on the 1st generation scope towards the new one speaks for itself. What I would like to do is install the Hi-Lux 8X USMC-Sniper Scope on the Creedmoor rifle. [/quote]

DJK,
Thanks for the reply. I had one on order, but after reading about them being "drill rifles", I'm thinking I'll pass. The price is only about $100 or so difference (higher) than the Gibbs, and I wasn't all that impressed with those either. Nice idea, but not for me.

 

[Pepper]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

[/quote]DJK,
Thanks for the reply. I had one on order, but after reading about them being "drill rifles", I'm thinking I'll pass. The price is only about $100 or so difference (higher) than the Gibbs, and I wasn't all that impressed with those either. Nice idea, but not for me.

[/quote]


After reading this, I think that they are a better rifle for the money than the Gibbs:

Dennis,

I’m sorry about any confusion on either of our parts, but to clarify, even though these are recovered drill receivers they were not de-milled receivers, and NO welding was done on them to bring them back to issue condition. That is not the case with all manufacturers. So it is accurate to say they are not re-welded receivers. The drill receivers we use were only lightly tack welded at the front bottom and at the cut off switch near the rear of the receiver prior to being sent out to schools. This is easily removed (filed away) and polished. Each receiver is then bead-blasted and parkerized, then given a thorough 29 point inspection. If any flaws are found, the receiver is rejected from the program (cut into pieces). After the inspection process, the receiver is given a new bolt and barrel, built into a rifle which is then test fired at the range of 50 yards. During the shooting session, rifles must pass required grouping and adjustment procedures. Please note: Our rifles carry a one year warranty against manufacturer defects.

Again, I apologize for any misunderstanding between us. Our rifles are of the highest quality, and I’ve been told, the rifle you set the record with was one we built. I hope this puts to rest any question concerning the quality and integrity of our rifles verses other manufacturers.

Best Regards,
Curtis Wolf
President

 

[1kHIT]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Thanks for the post...does that mean you ARE getting one?

 

[LegioX]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Negative 1K, I'd love to but have 2 cans and a rimfire on order when I found this article. Gonna have to wait a bit.

 

[Pepper]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1kHIT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the post...does that mean you ARE getting one?
</div></div>

I'm seriously considering it. However, I may wait until BountyHunter gets his and gives us an update.

 

[BountyHunter]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Just got mine in from Creedmoor and could not be happier.

Fit and finish was really good. Bolt is a little tight and trigger was OK but will get a little work.

 

[LegioX]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Awesome Bounty, can we get pics and a range report soon?

 

[GillaFunk]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

DEFFINITLY interested in a range report BountyHunter.

 

[1kHIT]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

I too would be interested in a range report.

 

[Longbow_06]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

I'll add a fourth vote to that

 

[Roofuss]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

I am also interested in a range report. I contacted Creedmoor on the 16th, and was informed the next group of guns will be available late March / early April time frame .

 

[GillaFunk]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

I took a ride down to Creedmore in Oceanside this past week. Not being a 1903 expert in any sense, I'm just a guy who owns a few and likes them a lot. I inspected one of their scant stock 03A3's which both the rifle and the bolt were in a plastic bag which limited my visibility to really look it over in detail. However, overall I was quite impressed with the rifle. I spoke with Dennis about this new line, and was told they really are selling fast and are quite popular. Something like 50+ rifles had already been sold in just a few weeks.

I'm still tossed up on what to do, but if you are looking for a complete and new looking 1903, this really may be what you want!

 

[MJS051]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Wow these are gorgeous. I'd be interested in a range report as well.

I see that the A4s with Shaw barrels are sold out however A4s with Criterion barrels are still available, but at a slightly higher price. Can someone explain the difference between Shaw and Criterion barrels?

 

[1kHIT]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Not sure why, but these rifles DO intrigue me. The more I'm reading about then, the more they seem to appeal to me. I know one thing, if I one, I'd shoot it that very week!

Hope to hear back from the guy who actually got one and see how it handled.

 

[ruth]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Does anyone know the difference between Creedmore and Gibbs 1903A4?

Why is the price higher now on the Creedmore rifle?

 

[BountyHunter]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Ok guys, bought some 168 AMAXs yesterday. Will load them this week and might get to fire Friday or maybe Sunday.

Will try to get some pics.

As far as quality, right now I would have to say mine is top notch.

Stock is new CMP issue with their cartouche only.

Wood to metal fit is good. Trigger and bolt are smooth.

Criterion barrels are made by Krieger and standard sale items at CMP for about $190. all reports so far indicate that the barrels are sure fire shooters. That is what I wanted.

Will let you know.

 

[1kHIT]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Hoping to hear good news about the rifle!

 

[westpacusn]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Own one of the Gibbs, put on the second generation scopes, they are not bad for what they are, recovered drill rifles. Suspect they are all drill rifles, even Creedmoor's . The scope bases need some brass shims to make sure you have enough travel for 600 yards. Fit and finish on the Gibbs is ok, walnut stock, if you buy one, be sure to make sure the rear of the receiver is not tight against the stock, you are asking for a split stock if you don't give it a little relief.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: westpacusn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Own one of the Gibbs, put on the second generation scopes, they are not bad for what they are, recovered drill rifles. Suspect they are all drill rifles, even Creedmoor's . The scope bases need some brass shims to make sure you have enough travel for 600 yards. Fit and finish on the Gibbs is ok, walnut stock, if you buy one, be sure to make sure the rear of the receiver is not tight against the stock, you are asking for a split stock if you don't give it a little relief. </div></div>

I don't get the ""not bad for what they are" argument.....if it's sold as a usable rifle, it should be so, straight out of the box.

OK, so $1000 isn't going to get you an AI or a GAP....but it's still a bunch of money to dump on a rifle.

My gunsmith bought one of the Gibbs rifles...there's an article on his site www.thamesvalleyguns.co.uk about the near total rebuild he had to go through to make it shootable (Building a 1903A4).

From what he describes as one of the worst examples of a scope he has ever seen, to a poorly put together rifle comprising a receiver and bolt (the only original parts on the rifle and may have been recovered from drill rifles), a new barrel, mismatched and incorrect parts and a cheap foreign sourced stock that was not fitted correctly so it broke first time out on the range. And NO warranty or support from Gibbs.

So effectively a rifle that was not fit for purpose as sold/delivered.

And how can anyone think that recycling rifles that have been classified as "drill rifles" is a good idea?

Only drill rifles I've ever come across have been so designated because they are unsafe to be used as anything else. Maybe the designation is different in the US?

You can't polish a turd!

 

[1kHIT]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You can't polish a turd! </div></div>

That pretty much sums things up.

 

[BountyHunter]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Ok got out today to fire it (sort of)

Loaded some 168 AMAX and 46.5-47.0 of Vgt with WLR

It was late and tired and forgot to check the cases with a light before I loaded. Looks like I left a case without powder so only got to test the 46.5 load.

It is all vertical which might be the thicker crosshair and 2.5x at 100.

The gun was checked before shipping at 50 and the it took me three rounds to get a 100 zero. You can see the target. 5th round of 46.5 had no powder and I left the cleaning rod at home. So will go back and reshoot later.

Click on pics to enlarge

 

[Pepper]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

BountyHunter - Good looking rifle!! Looking forward to Part II.

 

[1kHIT]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Indeed, looking forward to "Part II"....

 

[Entry Level]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

OK, I have been shooting my Gibbs now for about a month. I have moved through three different bullets now shooting 168 Hornady Match bullets. I use H-4350 since I have it and like it with other rifles and calibers. I made a sight card and determined the reticule is 1 MOA at 100 yards. It is about 2 clicks per MOA. For my rifle 9 clicks from 100 to 300 yards. It is then 21 clicks to dial 600 yards. Today I shot at 1000 yards with success. 52 clicks to get on 24 inch gong. With 2.5 mag scope and my eyes no small challenge. Then dialed down 73 clicks and first shot was strike on my 300 yard gong. I have posted pics on other boards but I can't figure out Photobucket. Let me know if I can refer other sites and I will let you know. I did not need to shim anything to dial to 1000 yards. I like the rifle but I have to remember to shoot it first. Going from 42x to 2.5x makes my eyes hurt!

 

[1kHIT]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Threeothree,
Thanks for the range report and sharing your experience with a Gibbs. The Gibbs I had for only a short time didn't have near that adjustment in the reproduction scope that came on it. Glad you are able to shoot out to 1000 yards! Thanks again for sharing. I also hope someone will eventually be able to give as detailed report on a Creedmoor rifle. J.

 

[Entry Level]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Here are some range photos with Gibbs, also shoot Enfield T .






http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=36409

 

[GillaFunk]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Nice nice. It looks like the Gibbs and the Creedmoor's 1903's are getting out to the range finally, as indicated by these reports.

From the most part, it looks like mayy of these rifles are 1.5 to 3 MOA shooters shooting reloads. Not really all that impressive, considering these are $1,000+ rifles with essentially brand new parts.

Looking these over, it would seem the Creedmoor's are the more accurate.

Meh, either way, If I had a grand to blow, I'd go with a Creedmoor, then maybe get a smith to look it over and accurize it a bit more to make it worthwhile. Sub 2MOA I can accept, considering this plinker is based off 100+ year old technology.

 

[Entry Level]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

Accurizing defeats the purpose of these rifles acceptance at Vintage Matches. The Gibbs I shoot easily shoots 1MOA, but not with 2.5 x scope. Some groups might approach that at 100 yards but the eyes and hold have to be working very well that morning.My buddy put a 1 inch mount on his original to do load testing and shot aces with a 10x scope. I pick a load and shoot till I can't improve the groups and he tests 20 recipes and drives me crazy. Just remember these are straight 30-06 barrels and have been shooting sub moa groups under the right conditions for over a Century. To shoot well at 3 and 600 yards is half dependent on one's spotter so don't forget that part of the formula if you shoot Vintage Matches. My 2 cents.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: threeothree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Accurizing defeats the purpose of these rifles acceptance at Vintage Matches. </div></div>

Does a thrown together amalgamation of an old receiver, new barrel, parts bin salvaged components, a cheap new stock and a piss-poor repro scope (i.e a Gibbs "M1903A4" really qualify as a Vintage Rifle?

 

[Entry Level]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

No one said they are vintage rifles only that they can be shot in the CMP Games in Vintage Class. I was lucky when I got my 1943 BSA "T". I also like 30-06 caliber and can't afford an original 1903A4. No one is making you buy one and if thinking about it is so unpleasant find another topic.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: 1903-A3 and 1903-A4 Rifles Available @ Creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: threeothree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No one said they are vintage rifles only that they can be shot in the CMP Games in Vintage Class. I was lucky when I got my 1943 BSA "T". I also like 30-06 caliber and can't afford an original 1903A4.<span style="color: #CC0000"> No one is making you buy one and if thinking about it is so unpleasant find another topic.</span> </div></div>

You're right, no-one is making me buy one. I've seen the Gibbs and shot my mate's before and after he had to rebuild or replace most it to make it a usable tool. No-one <span style="text-decoration: underline">could</span> make me buy one!

If you've joined the Hide expecting everyone to agree with everything you post, you're probably going to be disappointed very quickly.

There are two sides to every story or, if you like, opinions are like assholes - everybody has one.

Thankfully open debate and differing opinions are part of this forum. It is after all a "discussion".

Whilst "accurizing" may be your personal "bete noir", for many people, I suspect paying $1000 for the Gibbs and discovering it is a POS that bears only a visual similarity to an original rifle with none of the performance or quality thereof is the greater evil.

I fail to see the logic of opposing "accurizing" originals whilst condoning use of rifles that have few original parts. To me, it is a massive contradiction. Makes a mockery of the competiton.

Just my £0.02.

Freedom of speech - - it's a wonderful thing!