1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

[xarmor]

I picked this rifle up several months ago from an elderly gentleman that claimed to have carried it in Italy and then into Germany. From what I can tell it is 100% original. The guy I bought it from said it had not been fired in more than 60 years. His family had no interest in the rifle. I took it to the range this weekend and loaded it up with some 1945 vintage Frankford Arsenal 30.06 fmj. I put around 10 rounds through it and it shot pretty good for an old warhorse. These 03's kick like a mule. The scope leaves much to be desired and sure gives one an appreciation for the skill of past snipers. I would like to take it out and see how it does out to 300 or 400 meters.

 

[treebasher]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

Now that is some vintage iron worth owning...

I'm jealous!

 

[81Z4ME]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

They can be great rifles. Your's has the original style scope (and may be the original, too) on it. It is mounted correctly (I've seen them turned 90 degrees with the windage knob on top and the elevation knob on the right side.

Get a good sling on yours (I like the GI web sling in cotton or nylon as it just seems easier to use to me.)

I loaded Sierra 180 grain matchkings with IMR 4350 powder for mine and it was a real killer at distance. We used to put water in milk jugs and I could hit 3 of 5 milk jugs at 500 yds. with it.

It does kick more than my M1 Garand but get snugged up in a good sling supported position and the sling will really help you manage the recoil better.

If you want to shoot the rifle and save/protect that scope you can still get 1" Redfield rings and put a modern scope on the rifle. I had a Weaver 4X on mine for awhile. If you can find them get a couple spare screws for the rear rings (the ones that go in from the sides to lock the rear ring in place on the base) as they can break sometimes. I've only broken one but you're "dead in the water" without spares.

 

[xarmor]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

81Z4ME, The rifle came with a leather sling with a 1943 date but it is pretty dry so I removed it for safe keeping. I probably won't do to much shooting on this one. What was pretty suprising is that the rifle was probably zeroed 65 years ago for the last time and it is still pretty damn close.

 

[srv656s]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

I had a 1903a3 I got from the CMP. I took it out once and it kicked so bad and hurt so much to shoot I sold it. It was an accurate rifle though!

Great looking gun-

Shawn

 

[81sfo]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

Nice rifle you aquired J!

 

[Mumbles]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

Very nice.
Any chance of some through the scope pictures?

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

excellent rifle, excellent history, very jealous! considering the all original setup, i doubt i would shoot it much either

 

[3positionshooter]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

imagine for a moment those who have found themselfs on the receiving end of the 03 some 60+ years ago....

 

[garandman]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: srv656s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a 1903a3 I got from the CMP. I took it out once and it kicked so bad and hurt so much to shoot I sold it. It was an accurate rifle though!

Great looking gun-

Shawn </div></div>


That's why ya should be fat like me.... recoil's not bad at all.

To the OP -


That's a beautiful rifle there. I love the old USGI stuff, and their connection with US history. Shooting them is like being (a tiny) part of that history

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

btw, who made those scopes for the Army?

 

[xarmor]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

These scopes were made by Weaver (330C / M73B1). Originally the contract was given to Lyman for the Alaskan skope (M73) but they could not produce the number of scopes requested so the contract was given to Weaver out of El Paso. The early a4's had the SN and Telescope M73B1 electropenciled on the scope tube, later versions were rollstamped TELESCOPE M73B1 on the data plate. I will try and get a picture through the scope tonight (not gonna be easy picture). The FOV is horrible, the crosshairs are very thick and the eye relief sucks! Believe it or not these scopes cost as much as a Nightforce scope when they come up for sale!!

 

[g5]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

That's a very fine acquisition XARMOR. You should be very proud of that!

 

[JoeSmith]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

That is really cool! If possible, some groups on paper at 3 or 500 (or whatever range) would be interesting.
Besides the optic, I wonder what type of training they received?
If little to none, perhaps that may explain why the A4 had such a reputation. Since many errors are made in wind and range estimation that may have played a factor. Always neat to see heritage and history.

 

[E3C3H3O3]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

Very nice, from the pics you posted it seems to be in really good shape. How far were you shooting it on the pics you posted, my guess is 100, if so it shoots pretty damn good considering its been 60 years, and what you had for optics, very nice

 

[81Z4ME]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

Did you see the article in the new Shotgun News on 03A4's and the reproduction made by Gibbs? Neat pictures of 03A3 and 03A4's being fired side by side at a Japanese position on a far hilltop.

I knew my great uncle had been in the Army in Korea. When I got my 03A4 I took it over to his house and he got a funny look in his eyes and started telling me about how he carried on in Korea. He and a buddy took turns. They went out together each day looking for enemy soldiers. One day he'd carry the 03A4 and the his buddy would carry an M1 Garand. The next day they'd switch rifles and go out again.

Most likely these rifles saw combat one or more times. One of my buddies in college was in the SF Reserve outfit at Charleston, WV. He told me that still had 03A4's in their armory and that was in 1982.

 

[xarmor]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

Very cool. It would be nice if these could talk. The gentleman I bought it from left the Army in 1945 and he did not seem like he wanted to talk to much about the rifle. I became interested in these rifles when I was asked to safekeep an A4 that my father in law carried in Vietnam. He shipped the rifle back in 1970 with a luger and an SKS that he had aquired. Many fought through WW2, Korea, and Vietnam. I still have the rifle and it will never leave the family as long as I am breathing. I did see the article and have seen the Gibbs A4. Not a bad rifle, would be good for re-enactors. Thanks for sharing your Uncle story on the A4.

 

[mike70]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

Just a heads up.Make sure you clean it real good.FA 45 30-06
is corrosive ammo

 

[81Z4ME]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

Are you familiar with cleaning for corrosive ammo vs. non-corrosive ammo? Many folks say the regular powder solvents won't get the material (salt residues left over from the type of primer used) out/off of the metal.

All I can tell you is that I use black powder cleaning solvent most of the time, then wipe it down/lube it like a would if I had not been firing corrosive ammo. If you don't get those primer residues out/off they'll absorb moisture (hygroscopic is the fancy word) out of the air and create some nasty rust spots.

They also recommend you tear it down and inspect it again the next day and then a couple days later to make sure you didn't miss anything.

 

[7mmRM]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

Very nice rifle!

 

[xarmor]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 81Z4ME</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you familiar with cleaning for corrosive ammo vs. non-corrosive ammo? Many folks say the regular powder solvents won't get the material (salt residues left over from the type of primer used) out/off of the metal.

All I can tell you is that I use black powder cleaning solvent most of the time, then wipe it down/lube it like a would if I had not been firing corrosive ammo. If you don't get those primer residues out/off they'll absorb moisture (hygroscopic is the fancy word) out of the air and create some nasty rust spots.

They also recommend you tear it down and inspect it again the next day and then a couple days later to make sure you didn't miss anything. </div></div>

Yeah cleaning after firing the corrosive stuff is a pain in the ass, I have a three step procedure that I usually use.
Day1: Hot soapy water followed by black powder cleaning solvent. Then a good wipedown and coating of break free. leave it out of the stock to dry.
Day 2: Repeat day 1
Day 3: A good breakfree scrubbing, leave a light coat of breakfree and back to the safe.

I give it a good look over a few days later to make sure all is well.

This is the reason I very rarely shoot corrosive ammo. I fired it this time because some jackass said the a4 was not capable of shooting consistant groups, wanted to make it a fair test so I used the old stuff. Obviously not a sub moa rifle but "It will hold 5 moa groups all day long if I do my part though!!!"

LOL that's a joke please don't start the flame posts...........

I have been doing this for 20+ years and have never had any corrosion issues. This one actually has a really nice bore on it, no pitting or darkness, it was well taken care of while in the field, probably a big part of why he survived!! Thanks

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XARMOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">81Z4ME, The rifle came with a leather sling with a 1943 date but it is pretty dry so I removed it for safe keeping. I probably won't do to much shooting on this one. What was pretty suprising is that the rifle was probably zeroed 65 years ago for the last time and it is still pretty damn close. </div></div>


Grab some of this and apply - it will be good for your sling and help preserve it!!!

Turner Saddlery Sling care


I've got about 100 rds of 1970's vintage 06 match grade ammo - going to actually shoot the stuff in my M1903 Modified...

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

For corrosive ammo, clean as usual, but before cleaning, swab/soak/patch out the bore liberally with ammonia based (Windex, etc.) window cleaner.

The water/alcohol/ammonia solution dissolves and removes the corrosive salts. Once they're out, normal cleaning handles the rest.

The old G.I. water/soap process is certainly effective, but this approach does essentially the same without all the soakage and mess involved.

Greg

 

[popeye089]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

I love these old military rifles because they're more than just a firearm, but a working key to our military heritage and countries history. As a soldier when I look on them, I get a sense of pride and respect because a lot of people today forget what that young man back then was going through physically and mentally as he came across an uncleared hedge or trying to move from building to building. Only a certain percentage of us military people understand what that feeling of not knowing if you are going to live or die truely feels like. And these rifles are a link between us now and them. Semper Paratus, Sua Sponte

 

[81Z4ME]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

My dad is getting older (

ain't we all) and sometimes he has some of the darnedest notions.

One day when I was cleaning a couple of my old rifles he looked at me and asked me if I ever thought about the people those rifles may have killed. That kind of threw me off for a minute as it had never crossed my mind. After a few seconds the best quick answer I could come up with was, "No, but I'm sure any killin' that was done with them helped some young American GI live a little longer and maybe come back home safely." He seemed satisfied by that and the subject has never come up again.

 

[diGGer]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

IHave a 1903 Rem cmp greek return that was rebarreled with a High Standard barrel dated 2/44. The greeks reparked itt in their black park solutionand put it away. It came in a fence post like stock but a new one from CMP makes this look brand new. I can hold 1 in at 100 yds with the peep sight up. With match ammo I would bet your 03 will do the same. Nice rifle. Would love to have one

 

[Powder_Burns]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

I thought I could finish a box of 180gr handloads in my 03A3, kicked so bad I stopped at shot #16. Gives you a real appreciation for the infantry and marksmen of the past, just imagine having to depend on that rifle for your life and fire hundreds of rounds day after day in combat environments..I'm all bruised up after 3 magazines worth of ammo in 1 trip to the range and sore for 3 days after...it starts to become a chore to work the bolt when your shoulder is getting tenderized. Guys these days have it easy with the aluminum/plastic .223 semi-auto rifles they have work with.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clayward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">imagine for a moment those who have found themselfs on the receiving end of the 03 some 60+ years ago....</div></div>

Probably no better than any one of the {edit: couple thousand} GI's killed or wounded by German snipers, while we shuffled our feet in the hedgerow country. Waiting for Monty to get his job done.

 

[MZ5]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

That's a really outstanding rifle, XARMOR! Thanks for the pics and the story.

 

[samnev]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

Very nice A4 very hard to find and very expensive. Most you see today for sale have the M84 scope.

 

[xarmor]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

The m84's were usually added during the arsenal rebuilds or in some cases at the unit armory level. They were the primary scopes used in Vietnam and found on most rifles coming out of the cmp. Many M73B1's did not survive the war or were unservicable when they arrived at the depots. When the DCM was selling these in the 1960's they were not sold with scopes, rumor has it that it was because of the Kennedy assasination. The Weaver K4-60B was also used in Nam on these rifles.

 

[dbateman]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

wow nice find I have a real soft spot for the 03
thanks for posting
.Dave

 

[ggmanning]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

The unbelievable part is his family was not interested in any gun that a family membered carried in WWII...let alone this fine example. Your gain...enjoy!

 

[mexicanmatch]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

Very nice indeed.

 

[TalkingBush]

Re: 1903a4 WW2 Sniper Range Report

Treat her well.