Gunsmithing 1911 builders?

[42769vette]

im thinking of building a 1911. i really dont need the gun but i want the experiance. ive built bolt actions and done all the machining on them but ive never done a 1911. my questions is i keep reading how this is only somthing that should be done by professionals. is this accurate info? im sure at one time the professionals were ametures right?

im wanting to do a 9mm commandor with a threaded barrel. i really dont want to get a ton in this one for a learning experiance but i want a gun that is reliabable aswell so i may have to spend some extra. i dont need a great trigger and amaxing accuracy just a reliabably safe gun

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: 1911 builders?

Amature 'smiths can build a 1911... get a couple books, a video or 2. The biggest reasons people say a pro needs to build a 1911 are because it's true gunsmithing, not just armoring (parts swapping) a 1911 needs parts fitted. There are drop in and easy fit parts, but even they needs a few tweaks at times, and a TRUE custom really needs everything fitted. While fitting parts, there are a couple of angles/measurements that get critical, the books and videos will cover them. As long as you have an understanding of the tools and basic firearms design and terminology, you should have fun.

 

[jasonZ]

Re: 1911 builders?

From what I've looked at it doesn't seem that one can really build a decent/quality gun for the same price as what you can simply buy one for, but I understand your plight! I'd like to do the same, for the learning experience and gratification that comes with it, but I'm kinda worried that I'd screw something important up! I'd be more worried about the slide/frame fitting than anything, but it may be easier than I think it would be too! Good luck with it and keep us posted on the trial/errors and success! Thanks, Jason

 

[layinclose2hell]

Re: 1911 builders?

I think you should go for it, I have built quite a few over the last few years. There are a lot of detailed parts that have to be fitted "just right" like the barrel lugs, barrel hood, and correctly setting the height for barrel lock-up, hammer and sear angles, disconnector chamfering, bushing, spring tension, etc. Timing is the big issue with 1911s, all parts have to work in succession, or multitask. Books and videos are a great way to start, but trial and error is an even better teacher.

What I found is that when you begin picking up parts that you want, the overall cost of the parts is the limiting factor as you only get one chance with the particular parts. Go too far and you are buying another. Just remember to work the least expensive part first, and go slow checking often. There may be something to the statement that the cost of the build is prohibitive to buying an assembled firearm, the gratification trumps that when it is complete.

Initially I started with purchasing a cheap 1911 gov model, and upgrading. I think this is a great way to learn the little idiosyncrasies while having a platform to experiment on. Factory parts first, then cheap upgrades, then final new part fitting. All on the same frame and slide. Spring rates are a trial and error issue, so be prepared for that.

I hope you take the leap. Good luck with your build, you will have a great time and end up with a skillset as well as a final product that is perfect for you. That's reason enough!

 

[Mark Housel]

Re: 1911 builders?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I've looked at it doesn't seem that one can really build a decent/quality gun for the same price as what you can simply buy one for,...</div></div>
The economics of 1911 building seems kinda strange.

For somewhere around $750-900 in parts and 20-30 hours labor you can readily build $650-700 guns all day long.
If, you are building them on spec (unless you are already a famous builder of 1911's).

But, if someone shows up at your door and asks you to build them a custom 1911... Then the exact same build of those same parts can yield a $2000+ gun?

 

[doc76251]

Re: 1911 builders?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: layinclose2hell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you should go for it, I have built quite a few over the last few years. There are a lot of detailed parts that have to be fitted "just right" like the barrel lugs, barrel hood, and correctly setting the height for barrel lock-up, hammer and sear angles, disconnector chamfering, bushing, spring tension, etc. Timing is the big issue with 1911s, all parts have to work in succession, or multitask. Books and videos are a great way to start, but trial and error is an even better teacher.

What I found is that when you begin picking up parts that you want, the overall cost of the parts is the limiting factor as you only get one chance with the particular parts. Go too far and you are buying another. Just remember to work the least expensive part first, and go slow checking often. There may be something to the statement that the cost of the build is prohibitive to buying an assembled firearm, the gratification trumps that when it is complete.

Initially I started with purchasing a cheap 1911 gov model, and upgrading. I think this is a great way to learn the little idiosyncrasies while having a platform to experiment on. Factory parts first, then cheap upgrades, then final new part fitting. All on the same frame and slide. Spring rates are a trial and error issue, so be prepared for that.

I hope you take the leap. Good luck with your build, you will have a great time and end up with a skillset as well as a final product that is perfect for you. That's reason enough!
</div></div>

This is EXCELLENT advice^^^^^^^

Buy a cheap(er) but functioning gun and start fitting and changing parts to make it your own. Depending on what you decide to do on the first go around you may end up spending more on tools than parts. This is not a bad thing, once you have them you never have to buy them again for the NEXT build.

1911's are like potato chips, you can't build just one

Cheers,

Doc

 

[42769vette]

Re: 1911 builders?

i appriciate the info folks. im going ot go for it. i do realilze i can buy the same gun i will build probably cheaper than can build it, but i wont learn anything by doing that.

my very first precision rifle i had aj brown build. he did a much better job than i could ever dream of doing, but i didn't learn anything so the next couple i machined and built myself. they are not as accurate as aj's rifle but i learned enough to have a intelligent conversation with a rifle builder if i decide to have another built, and the rifles i build function great, and shoot pretty good, just not aj brown good.

 

[gunnergirl81]

Re: 1911 builders?

A price can be put on a gun, but never on the experience, and the pride of doing it yourself. If price was an issue, guns is not the hobby to have.

That being said, I agree with the advice layinclose2hell gives. We just finished restoring an old USGI that had been through hell, and have two more builds in the pipeline. 1911's are an expensive disease, but a nicely built 1911 that runs like it should will always get you some respect when you tell folks you built it with your own hands. At least people who know anything about pistols. Who else matters?

BUT. There are CRITICAL cuts/fits that must be right or you'll build a paperweight or unsafe gun. Please don't try and take advice from the internet on this. Get a quality book or video and be as sure as you can that you got it right. Good luck and have fun. Head over to Fosterind.com for some great deals on nice frames.

 

[Immorteq]

Re: 1911 builders?

Good place to start...

Jerry Kuhnhausen

Wilson's videos are slick. It's alot of fun and very rewarding. Know when to seek advice/help. Invest in fixtures if you think you may do more than 1. They're almost idiot proof and save a good amount of time while your skills develop.

 

[layinclose2hell]

Re: 1911 builders?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> 1911's are like potato chips, you can't build just one

</div></div>

My bank account knows this all too well...

 

[ShtrRdy]

Re: 1911 builders?

I'm a recovering 1911 addict. I've installed/fitted most parts on a 1911 but I'm still not confident I could correctly install a barrel to provide long term reliability. If you do decide to get into a 1911 build, check out 1911forum.com. There is a lot of good info there.

 

[TRON]

Re: 1911 builders?

Cylinder and slide in Nebraska has a class it's about 5k with tools. It's on my bucket list!

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: 1911 builders?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Housel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I've looked at it doesn't seem that one can really build a decent/quality gun for the same price as what you can simply buy one for,...</div></div>
The economics of 1911 building seems kinda strange.

For somewhere around $750-900 in parts and 20-30 hours labor you can readily build $650-700 guns all day long.
If, you are building them on spec (unless you are already a famous builder of 1911's).

But, if someone shows up at your door and asks you to build them a custom 1911... Then the exact same build of those same parts can yield a $2000+ gun?



</div></div>

Time is money. It's the same as the custom rifle market, so it doesn't seem so alien to me.

Josh

 

[jasonZ]

Re: 1911 builders?

Well I completely understand where you are coming from and it would be an awesome project! It should be a wealth of knowledge to do the job. I would suggest a lot of research and also a thread on the job itself would be cool.

 

[x ring accuracy]

Re: 1911 builders?

Give us a call if you run into a snag. Like others have said, get some good tools, read all you can. Go slow. The best thing you can do is to understand how a 1911 functions. Once you get it, the rest follows as far as fitment goes. Happy shooting

 

[chriSRT8]

Re: 1911 builders?

I have been thinking of building one too. Then i started thinking about it and thought maybe i should just buy a used Taurus and start to fit new parts to it. Whos knows maybe i will just buy a kimber. What do you guys think of using a taurus as a learning project?

 

[GardDog]

Re: 1911 builders?

I did it from scratch, but I took about a year to buy all of the parts. That allowed me to finance the project easier.

My advice is to have a good 1911 'smith only a phone call or short visit away. I did and he walked me through a few stoppages in work.

Here's my thread:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2650320

Here's the finished product:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...681#Post3014681

The experience was well worth the cost. I'll definitely be building more. I can't tell you have satisfying it is to fire the first round through a gun that you built.

 

[killerwaffles]

Re: 1911 builders?

I would not recommend getting a Taurus and modifying it. If anything, i would get a Springfield GI which is almost the same price as a Taurus and modifying that. I have heard all kinds of issues with Taurus and my first 1911 project was the Springfield and never had any issues.

 

[chriSRT8]

Re: 1911 builders?

Killerwaffles my only issue with a springfield GI would be the sights since they are not dovetailed(right?) What did you do for your's, i would love to see pics if you have any

 

[killerwaffles]

Re: 1911 builders?

Well i still have my original sights on the GI but i plan on getting dovetails cut and installing new sights. It will be about $100 to have a smith cut the dovetail and install the sights. How would i be able to post pictures?

 

[layinclose2hell]

Re: 1911 builders?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killerwaffles</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would not recommend getting a Taurus and modifying it. If anything, i would get a Springfield GI which is almost the same price as a Taurus and modifying that. I have heard all kinds of issues with Taurus and my first 1911 project was the Springfield and never had any issues.
</div></div>

There is nothing wrong with starting with a Taurus. Both firearms you mention are created within a mile of each other in Brazil. I personally have built two retaining only the frame as well as the slide. I affectionately call them the Wilso-Taurti as I have a .45 and a 9mm. Both guns now have well over 12000 rounds each thru them and are running strong to this day.

There are tricks that one has to figure out, like the magic of Wilson Combat as well as STI parts that work great in the guns. Slides are cut with a proprietary sight cut, but can be milled to accept real Novak sights as the factory cuts are undersized. The frame has front strap checkering, as well as a few other "upgrades" that make it an appealing firearm to a novice builder.

I have built an STI from frame and slide in the white, and purchased a Spartan as well. There is definitely more enjoyment from the gun I built, but they both run and run. It is more about the craftsmanship of the build than product bashing. Entry level 1911's are available from a lot of manufacturers, and by starting with options that would be upgrades later on, you can save a great deal of time and money.

Back to the Tauri, they are truly ugly now, having been used in IDPA as well as USPSA for years. The magic word is <span style="text-decoration: underline">reliable</span>. Not because they are Taurus products, but because the forged frame and slide have been sculpted into what I need them to do. It is about the build, not the manufacturer. You could buy a 2011 short block and f**k it up so bad that you ruin it, or you can start with a 4-500$ gun, learn along the way, and end up with what you want.

There is something to be said about doing homework as well prior to purchasing. Shop around for what you want, and remember that cost analyzing is just as important if you are thinking of long term use.

 

[layinclose2hell]

Re: 1911 builders?

RIA is also a very good option to start with.

 

[killerwaffles]

Re: 1911 builders?

Well it's a personal preference. The fact where they were made makes no difference on quality. How the parts are fitted ie tolerances, dimensions, and compatability reflect how well the firearm preform. I would rather modify a GI military spec gun because that is the most common and most compatible for aftermarket parts rather then Taurus, which has their own upgraded parts. I have modified a Taurus 1911 and have had issues with compatibility for aftermarket parts. Whichever you choose I hope it works out for you.

 

[killerwaffles]

Re: 1911 builders?

here is the before and after of my Springfield GI. I did all the modifications myself. I also did the cerakote.

 

[GlockandRoll]

Re: 1911 builders?

The main reason I'm so big on Clark Custom is that they really are gunsmiths 1st, not just manufactures like so many. You can send them just about anything, and they can make it what you want. Their prices are actually a bit less than others and I think their accuracy guarantee speaks for itself.

The wait is the hard part, but it's worth it because it gives you time to save for the final invoice while you are waiting 6+ months.