Sidearms & Scatterguns 1911 carry

[355sigfan]

Pat,
One of my criteria for a defensive/offensive firearm is I don't want to have to rely on a specific type of ammo for it to work reliably. Not that I am ever going to be in the situation, but if I were I want to know whatever I stuff in it is going to go off. FWIW I don't carry a 9mm for that very same reason. Call me old fashioned if you will...again my opinion. I didn't like DA/SA guns myself for a long time, but once I got used to it (Training) it wasn't an issue. For me, the ergonomics of the Sig suit me better than anything else I have used.

I respect your choice. Personally outside of my carry ammo I load all my training ammo and in the shits hits the fan situation I imagine I will be shooting my own reloads once the carry ammo runs out. I also agree no matter what your choice train train train. Also the new short reset trigger system for the Sig is nice.
Pat

 

[355sigfan]

So the solution to Glocks which just about every top end trainer/PD/Military runs is to run Sigs with their own set of reliability issues?

Gotta love the gun world.... its like special Olympics sometimes.

Carrying a gun and actually using it in anger/defense are not the same. I could carry a black powder pistol for 30 years and never have "issues".

And as long as you maintained the black powder pistol and trained with it you are likely to come out ok.
Pat

 

[Asperly Aimless]

To everyone that actually gave useful information and opinions, thank you very much. As I said I'm newer to handguns and figured it would be a good idea to at least ask the question.
On the topic of 1911s for carry...the first shots out of my 1911 were more accurate, consistent and comfortable than any other handgun I've fired. (Admittedly not many) I don't shy away at all from routine weapons maintenence and replacing parts that may need it. I'm also a mechanical engineering student so tearing things apart and finding problems is not new to me at all so I'm not worried about that. Long story short, a ccw should be one that you're accurate and confident with shouldn't it? Right now that's a 1911. FWIW I do plan on getting a 4 inch sometime in the future.

Run what ya' brung!

People can't go through guns to find the best one like you do with a shirt.

You have a 1911, you shoot it well, so carry the damn thing. I am 5 ft 7 in and I carried a Colt Commander in a IWB for a couple years and then switched to a Mernickle OWB high rise holster/belt/mag pouch system. I never had any issues and I carried at 3:00 or right between 3:00 and 4:00 most of the time.

For my IWB rig I used a really thin Bianchi leather holster with a metal clip. The thinness of the holster allowed for better concealment. It didn't hold open at the mouth, but I gave no fucks.

As to the Glock and 1911 argument. If you have a 1911, carry the 1911. If you have a choice between the two, pick based off what works for you. These days I carry a Gen4 Glock 21 in a Mernickle belt/holster set up and I have no issues there either as I just rock large T-shirts in the summer.

Run what you brung and fuck it, it's what you have so practice with it is the best advice I can give to you.

 

[Metal Gear]

Similar to many forum threads, it always gets turned upside down and turns into an argument as soon as Cobracutter gets involved. Look back to the original question... it never asked for an opinion on what type of firearm to carry. I have a feeling some threads would be much more civil if you at least didn't give your opinion on questions that were never asked.

 

[lancetkenyon]

I'm 5'7" @ 155lbs. I drive a lot for work, I stand a lot. I carry everyday, all day. I carry a Kimber 3" 1911 in a Galco "Concealable". Belt holster, close to body with a cant towards the front. With the pants/shorts I wear, it has enough play to be worn from 3:00-4:30 on the body. Enough adjustment to be around back a bit while standing, but move to 3:00 fro driving comfort and accessibility.

 

[Asperly Aimless]

I like a shoulder holster for driving.

 

[RTH1800]

Cobra,

One situation where the accuracy of a 1911 was needed and a Glock would not have worked?

Walter Walsh USMC Pacific. Shot a Jap sniper. KIA one shot 80-100 yards. He did this while under fire.

Walter Walsh USMC Pacific. Head shot several Jap machine gunners after his squad walked into a daylight ambush.

Walter Walsh FBI Chicago, USA Walked into an alley and shot a bank robber armed with a BAR and shooting back. Length of alley distance. One shot KIA.

Quote " He shot high, I didn't."

Mr. Walsh was credited with killing 13-near 20 armed bank robbers and FBI most wanted types. Then he went to the Pacific and really did some shooting . Many of his adversaries were armed with full auto weapons, shotguns and scoped rifles. Most of his shooting was with the 1911. Some with a S&W .357 but not as much.

He passed this year, age near 107. Was shooting a 1911 up to the end.

But I am sure you have far more experience than Mr.Walsh.

I have shot 1911 Colts since the late 60's and really have had no mechanical issues. Guessing 100K rounds. Not all with one gun of course. What type of breakage have you personally had to make you lack confidence?

 

[Cobracutter]

You do know that guys make 100-200 yard hits with glocks right?

What were the alternatives in 1940-1960...................

Something tells me you don't understand the point of the exercise.

You must also be the luckiest guy in the world. Anyone who has shot enough , has suffered mechanical failures. If you haven't, you are full of shit.

Lets just discount basically all the institutional knowledge and Lessons learned because YOU say so.

 

[EddieNFL]

I began carrying a 1911 before anyone knew it was too heavy or too big. However, as previously mentioned, it's not a beginner's gun. When my wife decided she needed to carry, I bought her a Glock. Simple, reliable and sufficient accuracy.

 

[pmclaine]

Before we gt into it, I'm sure I'm opening a huge can of worms here. That being said, I don't have much experience with concealed carry and handguns in general, so yes I will be taking a concealed carry course at some point before I start regularly carrying. So lets get to it...
I'm thinking about getting a Galco small of back holster and carry at 4:30-5:00 (im right handed). Reason being, when just thinking about the body mechanics of the draw, I would need to get a fistful of that 1911 almost into my armpit to clear the holster with a conventional 3:00 carry. So here's my question, does anyone have experience with this form of carry with this or a similar holster? Downsides? I know that the spinal injury argument has been brought up about a million times along with the draw being slow and general discomfort sitting, but is there anything else? Any really good things you've noticed about carrying this way? Tips? Tricks?
Thanks in advance

I carry a Combat Commander. I wear it outside the waist band at 3:00 with about a 10 degree forward cant. Most of the time it is in a Silent Thunder kydex holster on a Belt Man or a Tucker Gun Leather belt. The belt and holster are key. Your 1911 is a heavy gun it needs support to be comfortable. If Im carrying light I go with a S&W Model 36 in a pocket or OWB holster.

I carry at 3:00 because that is pretty much where my duty gun sits. The hand knows to go there even if the two guns are different. The work gun is an M&P .45. Not a bad gun but I have no love for it. Its a work gun. Its a bit bulkier than the Commander also.

I practice with my guns and hitting the thumb safety on my 1911 is just an instinctual thing but alot can go wrong when your pissing yourself and pushing a full load of adrenaline. I appreciate all the thought about the "what might happen" concerning the decision to carry. I carry with the understanding it is insurance. Im not in a rush to get in the fray. Its something to keep family and those in the immediate area safe. If fortune allows me to do more I guess I will. Thing is I dont go through my life thinking all the bad possibilities. Its not possible to be at condition red all the time. Truth be told if I felt my gun was that absolute necessary to go to any area than I wont be going to that area to start with.

With my thinking the gun is a not likely to be used insurance policy I at least want it to be something I shoot well and I appreciate for its craftsmanship when I carry it. Someone says "Hey whats that you got there?" Id rather flash some blue and ivory than some plastic and melonite.



The arguments for carrying a strictly service type gun are valid ones but this is 'Merica and you just go carry what you want but please be responsible enough to at least practice with it.

Hits being the most important thing this is what I should carry but "coughing" wadcutters at someone might not have the desired effect.

 

[JeffLebowski]

"small of back carry"

There's a reason no competent shooters nor competitors use this. In police work, folks call that.....a clue.

Don't do it.

 

[JeffLebowski]

To everyone that actually gave useful information and opinions, thank you very much. As I said I'm newer to handguns and figured it would be a good idea to at least ask the question.
On the topic of 1911s for carry...the first shots out of my 1911 were more accurate, consistent and comfortable than any other handgun I've fired. (Admittedly not many) I don't shy away at all from routine weapons maintenence and replacing parts that may need it. I'm also a mechanical engineering student so tearing things apart and finding problems is not new to me at all so I'm not worried about that. Long story short, a ccw should be one that you're accurate and confident with shouldn't it? Right now that's a 1911. FWIW I do plan on getting a 4 inch sometime in the future.

The 1911's trigger can be a crutch. I'd recommend a G19 for a "do it all" pistol. I've been down the same road and I became a better shooter the day I ditched the 1911 and bought a G19.

 

[355sigfan]

With respect a trigger is not a crutch. That makes as much sense as saying we should put Sao triggers on bolt guns because we don't need a crutch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[summy]

I shoot precision rimfire rifles with triggers in the ounces so a ~4 pound trigger is actually heavy for what I'm used to. I also think that a good trigger that breaks consistently and cleanly is very important, that being said, yes an excellent trigger makes shooting anything without an excellent trigger harder. Think excellent sights, optics, or any other high quality accessory. Go from your excellent sights or optics to something low quality and you probably won't shoot as well. It's all training as many people have said repeatedly. Personally, I don't like DA/SA triggers that break at the extreme end of the travel. But that's just me.

 

[SatCong]

Go with a good 1911. But don't go with it in the small of back holster. I would stay with a four inch or longer model. Been carrying a Colt Commander or Les Bear Concept VI. By the way I love manual safety. I carry one every day and love it.

 

[Clay_James]

I carry a full size Colt XSE 1911 in a Bianchi model 120 at the 4 o clock position. I'm 6' and 130lbs. Yeah it's a big, heavy pistol but I can still conceal it well. People like to suggest other things like Glock for CCW, but I'm comfortable with the 1911. I'm aware of the advantages and disadvantages of the platform and shoot it enough to be extremely proficient with it. The bottom line is carry what you're comfortable with.

 

[Cobracutter]

Competion/Range trigger vs a Duty Trigger.............

You aren't going to reason with people who are not willing to look at the problem objectivity. Anyone can say "i carry blah blah blah" and shoot 500 rounds a year. It's another to say, you actually use your weapon in force on force scenarios or going live.

All those people who say they are comfortable, will be the first to forget to flick the safety, or mis-grip the pistol and have not have grip safety deactivated, or will run out of ammo after scoring no hits because their adrenaline is dumping and they are scared for their lives......because they have no idea what a real - oh shit split second situation is like.

Run any real deal classes and you will see it first hand. This usually happens before the 1911's choke or break and they get to borrow a Glock from someone else to finish out the class.

The fact is, when you talk to people who have had to use their weapon to save their lives or eliminate a threat, they tend to have a different story then the shit in this thread.

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face - Mike Tyson

 

[Asperly Aimless]

This thread just took a turn for full retard.

OP- Sorry your thread got jacked and fucked up and turned into a gun VS gun thread.

Sorry Cobracutter, but the 1911 has been laying people low for to long in to many environments and "Scenarios" for your statement to have any validity. The 1911 has been used by fighting men to defend their lives in more "real life" scenarios than the Glock could ever hope to at this time. 2 world wars, Korea, Vietnam, and many other places. Also used on the streets of America by our peace officers.

Yes, the Glock is formidable weapon. I own quite a few and enjoy them and use them for CCW and woods bumming. However, I would feel equally safe and happy with a 1911.

 

[Cobracutter]

And the Colt Single Action army Killed Thousands of people, and people still hunt with it today. Hell, People are still murdered using it. Thousands of people die from stabbings each year, doesn't mean I'm going to leave the gun at home and start carrying a K-BAR.

How many people who aren't fucking clowns use it for duty? Oh some redneck sherrif out west who is into cowboy action and Jerks off to john wayne movies carries one in his little town where the last murder was 1964. There you go, you just gave us all the justification we need to unlearn the last 40 years of pistol combat.

You ignore the obvious. The M1911 and M1911A1 is not some holy grail of military service. Many Aircrew and soldier carried revolvers in those days beacuse the 1911's were not reliable enough. Aircrew who in the event they needed a pistol to survive would most likely be after they crash or punch out, and will almost assuradly have injuries. Injuries that would prevent them from being able to potentialy use the 1911. It's a risk assesement and clearly you have never done one beacuse this concept is foriegn to you.

There are two ways to make them reliable:
1. Tollerences soo loose that any accuracy or precision is gone.
2. Being built and maintaned by highly competent smiths who can tighten up tollerences but not to the point of unreliability. Note the Maintance aspect.. yea that kinda matters.

Les bauer is a classic example of a gun built WAY too tight for duty use. Good range/comp guns, but unnaceptable for personal defense.

The 1911 was used beacuse it was what was availible. If the Beretta M9 was availible at the time, it would have been used. same with the Hi-power or S&W 39 or any other similar gun.

You need to come back to reality.

Based on the shit that comes out of your mouth, What you feel safe with and what the average person SHOULD feel safe with, are not exactly the same.

Ignorance is Bliss.

 

[Asperly Aimless]

Well, Cockcutter, the only way to respond to your last post is like this:

Your mother is a whore who flat backs for SNAP benefits.

You really fuck this forum up with your innacurate, basement dwelling, one sided bullshit.

One last question: Bro, do you even shoot? Are you Gecko45?

You wanna toss up service records and combat awards and see who really has the biggest dick? I'm calling you out. Post up the documented baller ass gunfighting shit you have done.

No "Well I did this once". It needs to be documented through a military, police, or other official documentation.

 

[SatCong]

Injuries that would prevent them from being able to potentialy use the 1911. It's a risk assesement and clearly you have never done one beacuse this concept is foriegn to you.

There are two ways to make them reliable:
1. Tollerences soo loose that any accuracy or precision is gone.
2. Being built and maintaned by highly competent smiths who can tighten up tollerences but not to the point of unreliability. Note the Maintance aspect.. yea that kinda matters.

Les bauer is a classic example of a gun built WAY too tight for duty use. Good range/comp guns, but unnaceptable for personal defense.

The 1911 was used beacuse it was what was availible. If the Beretta M9 was availible at the time, it would have been used. same with the Hi-power or S&W 39 or any other similar gun.

You need to come back to reality.

Based on the shit that comes out of your mouth, What you feel safe with and what the average person SHOULD feel safe with, are not exactly the same.

Ignorance is Bliss.

Then you must be Bliss. You are a fool.

 

[Cobracutter]

So do you always resort to insults and acting like a 4 year old when you get picked apart and proven wrong?

Game, Set, Match

NEXT

 

[Asperly Aimless]

Put up or shut up. Show us your baller ass gun fighting street creds.

 

[Cobracutter]

Then you must be Bliss. You are a fool.

PROVE IT.

You cannot susbtantiate anything you say, so why would anyone listen to you?

I atleast explain the rationale behind my statements. You are just a lazy, ignorant mouth breather.

We get it, your life is not worth much, hense your inability to put any real thought or apply training to it.

Anyone can go to a gun store, buy a gun and holster, shoot a couple rounds and say they are ready.

In the rare event they show up to a class, they are in for a rude awakening.

Like I said, Ingorance is Bliss. You don't know what you don't know. Your best response thus far is akin to "I know you are but what am I".

 

[Asperly Aimless]

Fail.

 

[Metal Gear]

So do you always resort to insults and acting like a 4 year old when you get picked apart and proven wrong?

Game, Set, Match

NEXT

Every thread that turns into something similar to this always starts with you. Your attitude and unwanted opinions to questions that don't get asked is annoying. You talk about resorting to insults, but look back at this thread and numerous others and you will see that you are the one who initiates the insults.

You love to talk, but seriously, do you even shoot bro? I am 100% certain your attitude would get you kicked out with a refund on the first half of day 1 from some of the courses I have taken. Sometimes your arrogance leads me to believe you really don't have much experience behind firearms.

 

[Cobracutter]

It's not my fault people are too stupid to think for themselves. There is so much ignorance in the gun world it’s not even funny. Most people who are at the upper end of the knowledge spectrum don't even post on these kinds of sites because it serves no purpose.

You try and help people out, and they act like the fucking idiots they are. They want to ignore logic and get into an unwinnable argument. The only redeeming quality is that some people do get help, and they can use the information to make informed decisions.

I go against the grain. There are some wise quotes about Buying when everyone is selling and if you don't want to end up like 95% of the shitheads, don't do what 95% of the shitheads do. Me speaking out and getting backlash, is the price I pay for this.

I really don't care, because the 5%, who want to learn, can think a bit and apply logic, and look at this objectively are the reason I am here.

I did not initiate an insult against anyone. The same select group of brain dead fucks and trolls see my post and want to start slinging shit. The only way you will get insulted is if you either insult me first or are so dense/dumb that you cannot be reasoned with after multiple attempts or are just being a troll for the sake of it. I can't make people think. I can't think for them. Wish it was that easy.

Do you even shoot? Just saying silly, unsubstantiated shit and making assumptions is white noise.

An IQ test as a pre-req to join this site would eliminate 90% of the silly shit.

I have NOTHING to prove to you or anyone. Anything I say is out of perspective to hopefully lend a bit of credibility for those that need that and like to blindly follow someone because of a piece of paper or a shiny badge.

If you want to have a debate or talk our way through these issues, feel free to PM me. People do it all the time. Amazingly, the ones who end up talking and slinging shit, end up being buddies after a few p.m.’s/emails are exchanged.

What you call arrogance is confidence. I usualy know what the fuck I'm talking about, and every word that comes out of my mouth or is typed, I am ready to back up. If confident and assertive personalities offend you, you came to the wrong place.

 

[29aholic]

Put up or shut up. Show us your baller ass gun fighting street creds.

^^^^^^^^^^This

 

[SatCong]

Every thread that turns into something similar to this always starts with you. Your attitude and unwanted opinions to questions that don't get asked is annoying. You talk about resorting to insults, but look back at this thread and numerous others and you will see that you are the one who initiates the insults.

You love to talk, but seriously, do you even shoot bro? I am 100% certain your attitude would get you kicked out with a refund on the first half of day 1 from some of the courses I have taken. Sometimes your arrogance leads me to believe you really don't have much experience behind firearms.

He is nothing but a KEYBOARD WARRIER. Nothing more.

 

[dragoon]

I think flat pistols conceal better . I am partial to alloy-frame Colt's 1911 .45 for CCW . A heavy pistol can make your pants sag on that side , cinching your belt tight to compensate can torque your lower back ... Alessi makes a nice shoulder-holster for winter carry . Summertime , I like Kramer's IWB ... The H&K Compact USPs are nice , but they do bulge more because of the double-stack magazine , as do other similar polymer pistols . For whatever reason , I have seen polymer frames break , so I personally shy away from them .

 

[cal50]

Walter Walsh USMC Pacific. Shot a Jap sniper. KIA one shot 80-100 yards. He did this while under fire.

An amazing shot considering the distance and the so-so accuracy of "as issued" 1911's and ball ammo.
The stock 1911's I have fired from that era ( NRA / DCM guns ) the accuracy left a LOT to be desired and the guns were loose as a goose compared to today's standards.

(Kudos to Mr.Walsh)


Badass - Walter Walsh

 

[Cobracutter]

I think flat pistols conceal better . I am partial to alloy-frame Colt's 1911 .45 for CCW . A heavy pistol can make your pants sag on that side , cinching your belt tight to compensate can torque your lower back ... Alessi makes a nice shoulder-holster for winter carry . Summertime , I like Kramer's IWB ... The H&K Compact USPs are nice , but they do bulge more because of the double-stack magazine , as do other similar polymer pistols . For whatever reason , I have seen polymer frames break , so I personally shy away from them .

Polymer frames have a longer life than metal frames, all things being equal.
When a 1911 goes 300,000 and is still going strong, I would love to know. I'm sure the militaries and police agencies in the world would tend to dissagree as well.

A chat with an HK Armorer - MUST READ

 

[dragoon]

A CCW does not require that kind of service life ... When polymer has enjoyed the history of steel-frame pistols , we'll see who's ignorant .

 

[Milo 2.5]

People can relate to you better when you go by this designation.

 

[Asperly Aimless]

It's not my fault people are too stupid to think for themselves. There is so much ignorance in the gun world it’s not even funny. Most people who are at the upper end of the knowledge spectrum don't even post on these kinds of sites because it serves no purpose.

You try and help people out, and they act like the fucking idiots they are. They want to ignore logic and get into an unwinnable argument. The only redeeming quality is that some people do get help, and they can use the information to make informed decisions.

I go against the grain. There are some wise quotes about Buying when everyone is selling and if you don't want to end up like 95% of the shitheads, don't do what 95% of the shitheads do. Me speaking out and getting backlash, is the price I pay for this.

I really don't care, because the 5%, who want to learn, can think a bit and apply logic, and look at this objectively are the reason I am here.

I did not initiate an insult against anyone. The same select group of brain dead fucks and trolls see my post and want to start slinging shit. The only way you will get insulted is if you either insult me first or are so dense/dumb that you cannot be reasoned with after multiple attempts or are just being a troll for the sake of it. I can't make people think. I can't think for them. Wish it was that easy.

Do you even shoot? Just saying silly, unsubstantiated shit and making assumptions is white noise.

An IQ test as a pre-req to join this site would eliminate 90% of the silly shit.

I have NOTHING to prove to you or anyone. Anything I say is out of perspective to hopefully lend a bit of credibility for those that need that and like to blindly follow someone because of a piece of paper or a shiny badge.

If you want to have a debate or talk our way through these issues, feel free to PM me. People do it all the time. Amazingly, the ones who end up talking and slinging shit, end up being buddies after a few p.m.’s/emails are exchanged.

What you call arrogance is confidence. I usualy know what the fuck I'm talking about, and every word that comes out of my mouth or is typed, I am ready to back up. If confident and assertive personalities offend you, you came to the wrong place.

There is more fail and funk faking in here than I could possibly hope to address.

Face it, you just repost what you read at AR15.Com as your own thoughts and hope nobody calls you on it.

Poser.

You are the one always referencing what somebody else did. How about what you have ever done? Oh, wait...it was nothing.

You have shown your hand and made yourself irrelevant.

I say again, put up or shut up. Show us what makes your opinion have so much more weight than what anybody else posts.

Poser.

The only thing you need to PM me about are your creds making you the most ballerist ass operator in history.

Poser.

 

[Cobracutter]

A CCW does not require that kind of service life ... When polymer has enjoyed the history of steel-frame pistols , we'll see who's ignorant .

Its a retort to an ignorant comment stating that plastic frames crack and that metal is preferable.

Polymer pistols have been around for over 50 years, and are still going strong. When almost every new service pistol has a poylmer frame, this is a hint.

So before you start swinging your dick without aiming, check your fucking facts hotshot.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Les bauer is a classic example of a gun built WAY too tight for duty use. Good range/comp guns, but unnaceptable for personal defense.

We've had this talk before, it's not your content, but the presentation. I see you as above average intelligence, but why does every thread you jump into end in a fight?

It's Les Baer, and even he states, 500 rds break-in before attempting use as self defense. As a owner of 3 Baers, I can say they are the only 1911's I've never witnessed a hiccup, even with some of my shitty handloads. Kimber's, Colt's, an Ed Brown, Springfield's, I've seen them all not feed, Baer, not so. Not wanting to hijack this thread, just if you're going to bad mouth a product, get the fucking name straight.

 

[Asperly Aimless]

WTF are facks?

 

[29aholic]

WTF are facks?

Dude give up. Never argue with an idiot, people in the distance (or on the internet) may not be able tell who is who.

I am on your side buddy, but I hate to see you stroke out.

 

[fister13f]

I dont know but you better check your fucking facks!!!!! hahahaa

 

[Rob01]

Ok everyone is done swinging their dicks around to measure whose is biggest? Thread needs to get back on track. No more of the BS.

 

[Asperly Aimless]

My apologies to the OP for taking the thread off track. I hope you learned something before the thread degraded.

 

[29aholic]

Ok everyone is done swinging their dicks around to measure whose is biggest? Thread needs to get back on track. No more of the BS.

FINALLY!!! Moderation I can live with

 

[355sigfan]

The whole you need a heavy trigger for street use argument is bull. Granted you don't want a trigger that fires as soon as skin touches it but making triggers over 6 pounds on a carry gun does not make the shooter safer it just makes it harder for them to make good hits under stress. Also I have been to plenty of real classes and if you have a solid person running a 1911 it will do just fine. If you have a POS 1911 and a FUD running it then yes you will see issues. I have seen Glocks and other modern designs go down in training as well. Anything man made will fail sooner or later. Those that have been around for a while know that. As for flicking the safety off that is not something you remember or don't remember. You train until its muscle memory. Safety comes off as soon as you clear leather each and every time you draw. If you train properly you will be fine no matter what weapon you chose. If you don't train you will probably not do well no matter what wonder weapon you chose.
Pat

Competion/Range trigger vs a Duty Trigger.............

You aren't going to reason with people who are not willing to look at the problem objectivity. Anyone can say "i carry blah blah blah" and shoot 500 rounds a year. It's another to say, you actually use your weapon in force on force scenarios or going live.

All those people who say they are comfortable, will be the first to forget to flick the safety, or mis-grip the pistol and have not have grip safety deactivated, or will run out of ammo after scoring no hits because their adrenaline is dumping and they are scared for their lives......because they have no idea what a real - oh shit split second situation is like.

Run any real deal classes and you will see it first hand. This usually happens before the 1911's choke or break and they get to borrow a Glock from someone else to finish out the class.

The fact is, when you talk to people who have had to use their weapon to save their lives or eliminate a threat, they tend to have a different story then the shit in this thread.

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face - Mike Tyson

 

[summy]

My apologies to the OP for taking the thread off track. I hope you learned something before the thread degraded.

Oh I did learn a thing or two before all hell broke loose. Looking at getting a white hat maxtuk iwb but haven't decided yet.

 

[dragoon]

I have been around longer than the 50 years you claim that polymer handguns have . I never said steel is better than polymer - I said that I personally prefer it for CCW , mine actually have aluminum alloy frames . I own a number of H&K arms , and other brands that have polymer frames ... Few - if any - CCW guns see 300,000 rounds ... The thread is about CCW holsters . Why don't you share with us your wisdom on polymer versus nylon versus leather holsters ?
These links have pictures illustrating polymer frame failure , as I previously noted , "for various reasons ". If you own Glock or H&K that you want to be their cheerleader and think that we should all carry one - why don't you buy us all one ?
How does HK stack up? - The Firing Line Forums
HK USP 9 SD Destroyed

 

[Cobracutter]

No I own Glocks and HK's because after years of use and careful thought, they are the top two Service/Combat pistols made.
People/units/organizations who actually know what they are talking about, tend to lean in the same direction.

First of all, The Firing Line forums is like getting your News from TMZ. 99% of their users are Functional Retards. You can find some good/obscure info in there, but EVERYTHING needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Second, If you actually Read that SD 9 that thread, you would not have posted it. "This was not due to bad reloaded ammo. The housing was crushed by the postal survive. I did contact the other party I'm not sure what the next course of action is. I was in distress when i called them. " If I Run over a gun with a Truck, Do I blame the gun? You have to be some kind of stupid to blame the gun. I can Destroy ANY gun under the right conditions. You are being intellectually dishonest, and its pathetic.

Please let me know when your Steel or Alloy guns can do this:

pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » Gen4 Glock 17 Endurance Test: Month 16
pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » P30 Thursday: Week Forty-Two
pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » M&P9: Post-Test Accuracy Check #2
pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » HK45 Endurance Test: Week Thirty Seven

Absolute Minimal Lubing and Maintenance. Yes there are part failures, but that is the nature of actually shooting weapons. All you fucking clowns who pretend like you have never had parts failures are full of shit , shoot no where near enough as you think you do or must be the luckiest guys in the world. Real world testing doesn't jive with your Internet claim bullshit.

I simply made a statement that the 1911 is not a very good choice for a CCW/Duty gun, and you fuckers decided to open the can and want to argue about it. If I was a little wiser, I would have realized it was a waste of my time and effort to explain this shit, because its pointless. Most people are beyond help.

Sorry Rob, this is my last post in this thread.

 

[355sigfan]

You would get a lot less push back if you made statements like "In my opinion 1911's are not good guns for CCW or duty weapons" Vs " the 1911 is not a very good choice for a CCW/Duty gun. Also calling everyone who disagrees a fucker does not endure you well. No need to leave the thread but how about treating others with a little bit of respect.
Pat

No I own Glocks and HK's because after years of use and careful thought, they are the top two Service/Combat pistols made.
People/units/organizations who actually know what they are talking about, tend to lean in the same direction.

First of all, The Firing Line forums is like getting your News from TMZ. 99% of their users are Functional Retards. You can find some good/obscure info in there, but EVERYTHING needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Second, If you actually Read that SD 9 that thread, you would not have posted it. "This was not due to bad reloaded ammo. The housing was crushed by the postal survive. I did contact the other party I'm not sure what the next course of action is. I was in distress when i called them. " If I Run over a gun with a Truck, Do I blame the gun? You have to be some kind of stupid to blame the gun. I can Destroy ANY gun under the right conditions. You are being intellectually dishonest, and its pathetic.

Please let me know when your Steel or Alloy guns can do this:

pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » Gen4 Glock 17 Endurance Test: Month 16
pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » P30 Thursday: Week Forty-Two
pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » M&P9: Post-Test Accuracy Check #2
pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » HK45 Endurance Test: Week Thirty Seven

Absolute Minimal Lubing and Maintenance. Yes there are part failures, but that is the nature of actually shooting weapons. All you fucking clowns who pretend like you have never had parts failures are full of shit , shoot no where near enough as you think you do or must be the luckiest guys in the world. Real world testing doesn't jive with your Internet claim bullshit.

I simply made a statement that the 1911 is not a very good choice for a CCW/Duty gun, and you fuckers decided to open the can and want to argue about it. If I was a little wiser, I would have realized it was a waste of my time and effort to explain this shit, because its pointless. Most people are beyond help.

Sorry Rob, this is my last post in this thread.

 

[Asperly Aimless]

I hope it is your last post on the thread. Your contribution has been minimal.

 

[dragoon]

The only thing pathetic around here is your lack of manners , breeding , spelling , and comprehension ... Again , "For Various reasons " . The pistols are no longer fit for service , period . I did not alter their threads , the pictures speak for themselves . There is also a picture of an H&K Border Patrol pistol , that broke in two when the agent fell off of his ATV onto it , if anyone cares to search for it . He was in enemy territory , unarmed , because of it , unless he had a carbine . Would a steel frame break like that ? Steel can be reshaped ... There are more images , if someone cares to research the subject ... In my years of owning guns , I have seen handguns of different manufacturers , destroyed through different means , some alloy , some steel , some plastic , some polymer . I make my choices , and we are all free to do the same ... The thread is about CCW holsters . You chose to hijack it for your own ego and false pride ... Why don't you start your own 'ME' thread ?