Sidearms & Scatterguns 1911 Comparison

[Quackaddict]

Hey guys,

Looking real hard at a couple of 1911's and need toe collective opinions of this forum.

I am brand new to owning sidearms, I have ran a number and am in love with the 1911 style.

My requirements:

Gonna be used as a range/fun gun
1911/45 acp frame, please no other recomendations
Prefer stainless or two tone.
I really like the laser option, I would like a weapon with one.

I did some looking around tonight and found a couple options.
There is a Kimber Pro Carry II Crimson Trace for 999.99, this is an aluminum frame/blued steel slide gun.

The second is the S&W E-series with the same crimson trace grip setup, all steel all stainless. This weapon is 999.99 as well.

The S&W seemed to have nicer sights, beavertail, and magazines. However is much heavier than the Kimber.

The salesman said the S&W shouldnt even be an option with a Kimber at the same price point. Do you all agree? Is there anything mechanically that makes the Kimber a better weapon?

Really appreciate any help you guys can give me.

 

[aloreman]

Re: 1911 Comparison

not even in the same playing field. the kimber is a far superior weapon. the e series is a cast frame and the checkered front strap is cast into the frame not cut. the mainspring housing does not fit into the frame and creates a sharp edge that pokes into the palm. also the smith has an external extractor which in my opinion has as much place on a 1911 as a light rail or a bushingless barrel

 

[aloreman]

Re: 1911 Comparison

i wouldnt use the carry for a range gun however as the aluminum frame makes the gun lite. kimber has alot of nice guns from about 700 up. a kimber custom 2 would outshoot the s&w anytime for 700 dollars

 

[aloreman]

Re: 1911 Comparison

colt combat elite is also in that price range as are many springfeilds

 

[tnichols]

Re: 1911 Comparison

If I had to pick between those two, I'd take the Kimber. If it wasn't those two, I'll take Les Baer anyday. Certainly a different price point though.

 

[Quackaddict]

Re: 1911 Comparison

aloreman, thank you for the input, pretty sure im gonna come home with a Kimber tomorrow, I thought the extractor was odd as well.

I always want to get input from someone other than a salesman saying "Kimber is better because"

 

[swordfish]

Re: 1911 Comparison

kimbers are good starters
you can get a good lesbaer on the forums or gunbroker for just alittle more. a lighter gun will have more recoil and allot of people wouldnt own anything but a 70s series gun
1911s are like rabbits (better get a bigger safe)

 

[Quackaddict]

Re: 1911 Comparison

tnichols, these two are at my limit for spending on this gun.

 

[aloreman]

Re: 1911 Comparison

sti trojan is also a great firearm in your price range. tons of features and hand assembled quality

 

[aloreman]

Re: 1911 Comparison

love the rabbit comment. so true

 

[aloreman]

Re: 1911 Comparison

guna want to run about 500 rnds of hardball thru the kimber to break her in

 

[Downzero]

Re: 1911 Comparison

Pick a SIZE of gun first, then look at the available models.

A laser is a gimmick.

 

[Quackaddict]

Re: 1911 Comparison

Looking at a full frame, not interested in a short barrel...

 

[Quackaddict]

Re: 1911 Comparison

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">guna want to run about 500 rnds of hardball thru the kimber to break her in </div></div>

Why is this? Is this a requirement for all 1911's?

 

[Quackaddict]

Re: 1911 Comparison

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A laser is a gimmick. </div></div>

Dont flame me for it, but I wondered how long I would go without getting ripped for that...

 

[layinclose2hell]

Re: 1911 Comparison

Take it with a grain of salt, but my Kimber experience has been less than stellar. I own an E Series, and I can tell you that it has more than lived up to it's expectations. To date, after a trigger job, 18# recoil spring, and an arched magwell (my personal preferences...and done by the Performance Center) there are over 4000 rounds down the pipe without a hickup. I think the price you stated is too high from what I have researched. I have seen the E series stainless go out the door for an average of $850.00, with better than that deals found online.

If you are a "purest", which I am not, I can see why the external extractor bothers you. Remember that the extractor is from the current production out of the Smith and Wesson Performance Center. Along with countless other hanguns, I personally do not see an issue with it, and once again, Kimber is the only company that I know of that has absolutely failed with an external extractor attempt on a 1911.
I have a few posts up with pics and reviews of the E series, or you can check out 10/8 Performance's review for yourself below.

Link

 

[tnichols]

Re: 1911 Comparison

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quackaddict</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tnichols, these two are at my limit for spending on this gun. </div></div>

I understand. We have Kimbers in the safe and they are fine. Just offering an alternative as I run a pair of Les's pistols in USPSA Single Stack, and they are dang nice. Plus, have a "midwest" heritage, as do the offerings from a few other companies.

 

[turbo54]

Re: 1911 Comparison

Well, I'm no 1911 expert, but I bought a Sig 1911 this year and I'm tickled with it. I bought mine used for $700, but they can be had new for $1000 nicely appointed. Recently I showed it to a buddy that's really into 1911s, and he was impressed by all of the little details on it - the slide/frame fit, the barrel/bushing fit, the excellent checkering on the front and rear of the grip, the excellent Novaks sights it came with, and some other points.

Obviously, it has a little Sig DNA in it and has slightly different styling to it than original 1911s, and of course it has the external extractor.

I've been tickled with it and don't believe there is another 1911 on the market at the pricepoint (~$1000) that comes as nicely equipped and detailed.

 

[HPLLC]

Re: 1911 Comparison

There was a really super looking SIG with the mag well grips in tan on the forum here for $900. I think it was checkered, and also had night sights.

I would call that the better deal.

Aluminum frames for carry but if you have no intention of ever carrying it, the aluminum is just more recoil.

 

[aloreman]

Re: 1911 Comparison

the 500 rounds is proper break in for a 1911. a good 1911 will have very tight tolerances and it takes about 500 rounds till the become completely reliable

 

[aloreman]

Re: 1911 Comparison

use full power jacketed ammo for this

 

[aloreman]

Re: 1911 Comparison

i agree with the lazer comment from downzero. to many people get lazers on there guns and use them to shoot instead of learning the fundamentals. front sights never fail there batteries dont need replaced and they dont show bad people where you are hiding

 

[Quackaddict]

Re: 1911 Comparison

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tnichols</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quackaddict</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tnichols, these two are at my limit for spending on this gun. </div></div>

I understand. We have Kimbers in the safe and they are fine. Just offering an alternative as I run a pair of Les's pistols in USPSA Single Stack, and they are dang nice. Plus, have a "midwest" heritage, as do the offerings from a few other companies. </div></div>

Appreciate the input! Ive just found myself adding another 100 each time I go into the shop to look, at this rate I will have a Wilson combat!!

 

[Quackaddict]

Re: 1911 Comparison

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i agree with the lazer comment from downzero. to many people get lazers on there guns and use them to shoot instead of learning the fundamentals. front sights never fail there batteries dont need replaced and they dont show bad people where you are hiding </div></div>

I assumed this was the reason for it. The laser is twofold for me. Anything I buy my girlfriend (and very soon to be fiance) also wants to shoot, and having a simple aim and hit interface works well for her. I fully plan on using the irons and actually learning how to shoot.

There was an all stainless Kimber with synthetic grips at the shop last night as well, think they were asking 900.00 for that weapon, thoughts on that?

 

[Bronco]

Re: 1911 Comparison

For a factory 1911 the SIG and STI are hard to beat. What ever you get it will need a trigger job, lawyers. If you want a laser it's easy to add with the grips later.
The Dan Wesson custom shop 1911's are super nice, see the cover of American Handgunner this month. I know you said 45 only, but the double stack 10mm is awesome.

 

[MWM-5150]

Re: 1911 Comparison

+1 on the Dan Wesson. They make an all stainless "Heritage" that is right around your price range and is a fine pistol. Fantastic fit, no MIM parts, wonderful quality. Just food for thought.

Between the two in your OP I would suggest the Kimber. However, the PRO is not a full size 1911, which you stated was your desire in an earlier post. The $900 full size stainless you mentioned may be a good grab. Was it a standard Custom II or a TLE II? The TLE II would be a great deal as it has checkering and decent sights.

If you have no intent to carry, try and stick with all steel, stainless or otherwise. It just tames the recoil a bit and makes the gun a little more pleasurable to shoot, not that I've ever been displeased shooting any 1911...

I have no personal experience with the SIGs, but they are usually highly spoken of, here and on the 1911 forum.

 

[Quackaddict]

Re: 1911 Comparison

The Kimber they had in stock is a full size weapon, they have three different size options according to the website, and I wouldnt even consider it if it wasnt, no interest in the snub nose guns.

I believe the Stainless weapon was a Custom II, if its a TLE I will grab it up.

 

[The Colonel]

Re: 1911 Comparison

Sig Scorpion. Definitely an option.

 

[leprechaun]

Re: 1911 Comparison

Go with the S&W 1911. you won't be disapointed

 

[Downzero]

Re: 1911 Comparison

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quackaddict</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dont flame me for it, but I wondered how long I would go without getting ripped for that... </div></div>

Anyone who is trying to sell you a laser doesn't know what he's doing, plain and simple. It's not about 'getting ripped.' It's about learning how to shoot properly and accurately.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quackaddict</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I assumed this was the reason for it. The laser is twofold for me. Anything I buy my girlfriend (and very soon to be fiance) also wants to shoot, and having a simple aim and hit interface works well for her. I fully plan on using the irons and actually learning how to shoot.

There was an all stainless Kimber with synthetic grips at the shop last night as well, think they were asking 900.00 for that weapon, thoughts on that? </div></div>

A 1911 is a professional's handgun. I'm not claiming that flicking the safety off and pulling the trigger is difficult or anything, but there are much easier to operate and simple weapons for someone who doesn't know how to shoot. Get your girlfriend one of those guns and stop trying to justify spending $1000 on something just because you think it's cool. Get her a Glock or a revolver and you'll have plenty of money leftover for an RIA or STI Spartan and you'll still have a decent 1911 AND a firearm for your girlfriend without trying to justify some stupid laser to convince her that she can handle a single action firearm. Nobody inexperienced should be shooting a single action gun.

The problem with lasers is that to use them, you have to focus on the target rather than the sights on the gun. Target focus is ultimately just point shooting and will never deliver the rounds accurately. Using a laser is basically antithetical to any portion of the modern handgun technique and no decent instructor would encourage it any more than they'd encourage point shooting.

I would not buy a newer Kimber as they are overpriced and junk. I also wouldn't buy a stainless 1911 of any brand or type because stainless steel is an inferior metal for making firearms.

You can get a brand new, 100% US-made STI Trojan for $1000, and as such, you'd be a fool to pay $900 for a stainless Kimber. But if your real concern is that you really don't have a $1000 budget, you should be looking at $4-600 1911s and stop trying to convince yourself that a $900 one is that much better. It's not, and if the budget is that tight, you should be buying ammo, not another gun.

 

[bigwheeler]

Re: 1911 Comparison

I wouldn't look at either the kimber or smith. STI would be my first choice. Steller
reputation. Everyone I have ever shot or seen shot has been very accurate and
functioned without a hick up.

 

[Quackaddict]

Re: 1911 Comparison

Downzero, the reason I picked 1k as my limit was because I figured in cost for ammo, dies, and components so I could shoot the weapon, I also evidently wrongly assumed that a 900-1000 1911 would be something on the order of 40-50% than a 5-600 1911.

I can spend whatever I want on a weapon if I want, but I CHOOSE to spend this amount, I dont see the logic in spending 3k on my first 1911, dont tell me what I can and cant afford, especially on an online forum.

I have begun looking at some different options for this weapon, I finally found a local vendor who knew what an STI was and asked him for a quote on a trojan, he said 950 and a 6-12 month wait.

I am going to give springfield a serious look and will continue to try and locate an STI to take a look at.
I appreciate all your input! I am going to ditch the laser idea and get a good solid platform.

 

[pdogsbeware]

Re: 1911 Comparison

My opinion, which aint worth shit really, is it is all personal preference. With any of the "name brand" 1911s at that price point, you won't have any problems with whatever you pick. Everyone has their personal favorites and reasons why, but let's be honest, they all shoot the same.

Please don't tell me about your bad experience you had with Brand A and then switched to Brand B. ...Course, I don't know why I bother saying that cause I guarantee someone will tell me anyways haha With any mechanical device there is always going to be the fluke that doesn't work right. Since you are looking for a range/fun gun, pick the one in your price range that YOU simply like the best. After all, you're the one who has to look at it and use it, if you don't like it, what's the point? If it's a name you've heard before, it will suit you just fine and you will be happy with it!

 

[Glock45]

Re: 1911 Comparison

Quack,

My $.02 only, and MY experience with any of the weapons mentioned.

Choosing between Kimber and S&W per your OP, I would go S&W. Does Kimber make a bad gun? No. Does Kimber have a stellar rep for customer service? NO! Does S&W make a bad gun? No S&W customer service good? YES! Second to few in the business. (again, my personal experience!) I of course hope you have to never use the CS of either company however!

I've owned two Kimbers that didn't give me issues, one of them a Tactical Custom II(alum frame AND the "failed" external extractor!) I put about 2k through the Kimber, never an issue. I even had my G/F at the time(now wife) shoot it, and she LOVED it.

I've fired at the range a couple S&W 1911's. One was a Pro shop gun, and it felt really good, an all steel(well, Stainless Steel) gun and it shot really well, tight feel, etc. Another gun had a really sloppy fit trigger, shot ok, but attention to detail wasn't stellar.

I've had a few Springfields that I've been very pleased with. Alum and steel frames and one Commander length I borrowed for some time.

I currently own a Colt Combat Elite(Blue over Stainless) and have had ZERO issues with this weapon. I added and STI tri glide trigger just because I wanted to, and just recently replaced recoil spring as the original had 2200 rds through it. That's it!

I also own a Nighthawk Custom GRP. Side by side, yeah, it's superior to any 1911 I've ever owned. I do like it a LOT!! But alas I want to focus on firearms in the price range you have given your purchase.

So, back to your question, what to buy? I think you can add the laser grips later. Don't let the manufacturer that offers them from the factory dictate your firarm. <span style="font-weight: bold">YOU </span>choose the firearm, and add Crimson Trace to the 1911 that fits <span style="font-weight: bold">YOUR</span> needs!!!

Some other 1911 makers to consider(as some have mentioned above!) STI, Colt, Springfield Armory, Desert Eagle.

The other piece I would suggest to you is if it's a Defense weapon(I know you didn't mention that in your OP) I would go for a 1911 that has a GI length guide rod, or at least one that can be removed without the bent paperclip tool. That way a field strip can be just that, a strip made of the weapon in the field, without having a special contraption/tool handily with you.

I also like 2-tone handguns. I'd go for a full steel/stainless weapon, Govt or Commander size(5" or 4.25"), sights that you can see(vs some that seem to hide in your sight picture), add laser grips later and shoot the hell out of it and take the shit-eatin' grin to work on Monday.

Best of luck!!

-G45

 

[DBrace]

Re: 1911 Comparison

Quack, PM sent. A couple of opinions and things to think about. Good luck in the decision.

PS Springfield TRP Operator. Cant go wrong

 

[mwroseberry]

Re: 1911 Comparison

Fusion 1911 if you have the money. Brother has a scout and its a beast. I just picked up a desert eagle 1911C this week and I love it but it doesn't meet your stainless requirements. But I was looking at Springfield, colt, and Kimber commanders and the Eagle won.

Good luck,
Merritt

 

[Nathan11B]

Re: 1911 Comparison

I would personally recommend the S&W 1911. From the reviews I've read and how the felt in hand when held the S&W won hands down for me. On the other hand there are plenty of fine 1911s for 1k out there. But if the choice is between a Kimber or S&W then it's S&W for me everyday of the week.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: 1911 Comparison

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the 500 rounds is proper break in for a 1911. a good 1911 will have very tight tolerances and it takes about 500 rounds till the become completely reliable</div></div>

Maybe for Kimbers, but any properly built handgun should function out of the box. Firing 500 rounds to ENSURE reliability is a smart idea, though.

Kimbers may be "tight" when discussing mass production, but there are 1911s that make them feel like a bag of marbles...and require no "break-in" to function properly.

Kimber Nomex on.

 

[Big Bo]

Re: 1911 Comparison

I like the SIG 1911`s too.

 

[spiritzerothree]

Re: 1911 Comparison

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quackaddict</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tnichols</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quackaddict</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tnichols, these two are at my limit for spending on this gun. </div></div>

I understand. We have Kimbers in the safe and they are fine. Just offering an alternative as I run a pair of Les's pistols in USPSA Single Stack, and they are dang nice. Plus, have a "midwest" heritage, as do the offerings from a few other companies. </div></div>

Appreciate the input! Ive just found myself adding another 100 each time I go into the shop to look, <span style="color: #CC0000">at this rate I will have a Wilson combat!!</span> </div></div>

Don't joke about that. I've said the same thing a few times, never thought it would happen to me. Nope, 2k+ 1911's are just for the other guys.....

My Wilson should be here next month or so

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: 1911 Comparison

Coastie, is Spirit Zero Three different than Spirit 03?

 

[THE MGD]

Re: 1911 Comparison

KIMBER needs to be compared with its own class like ED BROWN etc.
as said pick a size / weight and then narrow it down.
on a full size gun like a 1911 lasers are fairly looked as stupid. on a pocket pistol like the popular Ruger LCP the laser serves a pupose of concealed carry hip fire / firing from center of chest.

 

[d90king]

Re: 1911 Comparison

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the 500 rounds is proper break in for a 1911. a good 1911 will have very tight tolerances and it takes about 500 rounds till the become completely reliable</div></div>

Maybe for Kimbers, but any properly built handgun should function out of the box. Firing 500 rounds to ENSURE reliability is a smart idea, though.

Kimbers may be "tight" when discussing mass production, but there are 1911s that make them feel like a bag of marbles...and require no "break-in" to function properly.

Kimber Nomex on. </div></div>

Shouldn't need Nomex because you are on the money. I am consistently surprised at how shocked people are when they buy a Kimber and it doesn't run, and then they buy into the BS that you need 500 rounds to break it in because its "tight"...

I have tens of thousands of rounds through Baer's and they make Kimbers feel like old Colt war guns, and I'm still waiting for any of them to fail.

 

[VKC]

Re: 1911 Comparison

To give you some background on my point of view...I own a Kimber Super Carry Pro, Kimber Super Carry Custom, S&W1911sc E-series and several Wilsons. I have a friend with an Ed Brown that I've shot in a course, same with other Kimbers. I've handled the Kimber Pro Carry series weapons too, as well as several other 1911s including sig, Dan Wessons, etc.

I had extraction and feeding issues with my Kimber Super Carry Pro, and had a terrible experience with Kimber's custom service. My full sized Kimber worked fine from the get go.

Between your stated choices of the Kimber Pro Carry and S&W1911 e-series, I would go with the S&W e-series hands down. Here are the reasons.

The Kimbers thumb safeties are rough near your thumb webbing, even though it is subtle it is very significant if you shoot extensively. The S&W are much smoother there.

Kimbers, especially the comander sizes, have had the extraction and feeding problems that I experienced myself...just look on the forums. Some say that replacing the springs or changing magazines fixes the problem, but it did not for me. I think it has to do more so with the extraction spring tension and improper fitting.

S&W e-series have flush or recessed barrels, nice for CCW.

The grip on the e-series is textured just at the right spot and smooth at others. Try shooting the Kimber textured grip without gloves all day and your hands will be blistered.

The Scandium framed e-series with rounded butt are really nice for CCW. Basically a copy for Ed Brown Kobra carry for a fraction of the price.

Kimber Pro Carry does not have an ambi safety, so shooting left handed (for me my non-dominant hand) is much more difficult.

Melonited finish on the e-series are a lot more durable.

I've noticed that the feed ramps for the Kimbers especially the aluminum frame 1911s wear down very quickly compared to S&W e-series which seems to be much more durable.

Take a look at the Dan Wessons too, if you get a chance, they are nice as well.

Also consider the takedown with your 1911 and if you require extra tools or not.

I realized others experiences may vary, but that is my humble opinion. You are welcome to message me if you have any other specific questions that I could help you with.

 

[bassani]

Re: 1911 Comparison

It's hard for me to think of 1911s being made by anyone other than Colt. When exactly did they open the patent for other companies to make them?

 

[Arbiter]

Re: 1911 Comparison

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maelek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's hard for me to think of 1911s being made by anyone other than Colt. When exactly did they open the patent for other companies to make them?</div></div>

If you're currently alive and posting on this forum...it was well before you were born.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: 1911 Comparison

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When exactly did they open the patent for other companies to make them?</div></div>

Do I detect a high degree of facetiousness, or are you being truthful?

 

[dbateman]

Re: 1911 Comparison

Stay away from kimber

Have a look at a Colt .

1911's are reliable just keep it lubed and it will run fine .

 

[abizdafuzz]

Re: 1911 Comparison

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maelek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's hard for me to think of 1911s being made by anyone other than Colt. When exactly did they open the patent for other companies to make them? </div></div>

Patent expired about 80 years ago...

 

[cstone07]

Re: 1911 Comparison

Love my Springfield Armory 1911-A1 Loaded Black Stainless Target. Here is an article about it: http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/featured_handguns_hg_springfieldarm1911lbst_201003/