Gunsmithing 1911 Hammer follow......

[Kells81]

I know this is the "hide" but there's some good talent and knowledge here so figured I would ask around here first.

I have 2 custom colt series 70 1911's built by the same smith. One is complete and the other is in a shake out stage.

Things that matter

Ed Brown triggers
Ed Brown hammers (in one unsure of other)
Ed Brown perfection sears/disconnects
Ed Brown hardcore sear springs

3 months ago I got my 45 back to shake it out before bluing to see if there were any changes I would like made. After about 500 rounds it started double firing and tripling. I stopped shooting and put it away and trucked on with my other 1911's. When I got home I noticed the screw in the trigger was backed all the way out against the front of the shoe. Anyway told the smith when I dropped it off to be finished. Well I got it back along with the 9mm/38S series 70 to match it in shake out stage. Today I went to a close indoor range with a few of my 1911's to shoot. I put around 100 rounds in the 9mm without any fail of any sort and then switched over to the 38 super barrel. After the second mag of 38 super it started doubling. I stopped shooting it then and put it up. Switched onto my 45 that was trouble before. After about 100 rounds it started doubling which really pissed me off. Well got home and started looking them over and noticed the screws in both pistols triggers were backed all the way out. I then took the grip safeties off both pistols and noticed this let the trigger push the sear into a weird spot that barely caught the hammer. Then I started playing with the screws and turning them in till the hammer would not fall and backed out 2 full turns. I did some function checking and no hammer fall so I put on some low strength loctite and headed over to the range. I was able to put 200 rounds through each pistol with no trouble.

I know that's a long post to get to the point but I am suspecting that this cannot be the only issue but not 100% on that. Could this silly ass screw let the trigger mess with the gun that much? Pretty sure I am going to send them both to Vandenberg to have the triggers looked at as the springfield he built me is solid with no trouble at all.

I have a 3rd Springfield Armory 1911 45 that is built with the same parts except for the trigger which is a solid style with adjustment screw. Vandenburg did the work on it and its solid and I don't wanna mess with the screw to see if it would do the same

 

[darrenk75b]

Re: 1911 Hammer follow......

Your overtravel screw should not affect the safety of your pistol. You need to have it looked at. I'm guessing the hammer hooks or sear have been improperly honed

 

[phideaux]

Re: 1911 Hammer follow......

by "backed out" , do you mean the screw in the trigger came out of the front of the trigger ? I stake these in every build I do. that screw in your trigger does nothing but touch the front of your mag release to keep over travel to a bare minimum. but it it's screwed in too far, your gun won't fire.
this screw can't cause the problem you're describing. the problem you're having can be caused by hammer hooks too short, too strong of a recoil spring, the sear has been cut wrong, not enough pressure from the sear spring or a combination of all of these and other problems.

i do have a question for the OP. have you ever, at any time after your trigger jobs were done, dropped your slide from the locked back position without a loaded magazine in the gun? if you've done this, you probably have contributed to the problem. the trigger in a 1911 free floats in it's slots....when you drop the slide, especially on an empty chamber with nothing to slow the slide down, the trigger is trying to move rearward...it's some of that equal and opposite reaction type shit going on....

normally the hammer wil be dislodged and start to fall, at this time the sear spring will catch up and push against the sear to catch the hammer at halfcock.....ouch, there went your trigger job more than likely, and you'll need a new sear and possibly a new hammer to fix the problem.

now, if you haven't dropped your slide on an empty chamber to cause this problem, don't let the last guy do any more 1911 trigger jobs for you....he's doin it wrong. i see guys who carry 1911's for a living and others that use them for CCW in the shop every day that drop their slides on an empty chamber, they should know better. it's job security for me. feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.

 

[Kells81]

Re: 1911 Hammer follow......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i do have a question for the OP. have you ever, at any time after your trigger jobs were done, dropped your slide from the locked back position without a loaded magazine in the gun? if you've done this, you probably have contributed to the problem. the trigger in a 1911 free floats in it's slots....when you drop the slide, especially on an empty chamber with nothing to slow the slide down, the trigger is trying to move rearward...it's some of that equal and opposite reaction type shit going on....

normally the hammer wil be dislodged and start to fall, at this time the sear spring will catch up and push against the sear to catch the hammer at halfcock.....ouch, there went your trigger job more than likely, and you'll need a new sear and possibly a new hammer to fix the problem.

now, if you haven't dropped your slide on an empty chamber to cause this problem, don't let the last guy do any more 1911 trigger jobs for you....he's doin it wrong. i see guys who carry 1911's for a living and others that use them for CCW in the shop every day that drop their slides on an empty chamber, they should know better. it's job security for me. feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.
</div></div>

While I am nothing near a competent 1911 smith I keep seeing this on the internet for things not to do with a 1911. I understand what a loaded round does in the slide drop but if a weapon isnt sturdy enough to handle an empty slide drop then its not a very good weapon and most likely full of shity parts.
Either way I have dummies with for this purpose.

Gonna call monday and see what the original smith says. Also gonna go ahead and try to see if I can push one to fail tommorrow with my theory about the screw. Pretty sure its not right either way but playing with the original trigger from the gun the sear is not pushed anywhere near as far back when using it. Either way the job cannot be right so off to a 1911 smith it goes.

 

[Redcreek1]

Re: 1911 Hammer follow......

Look like your between a rock and a hard place.

My view is that a lot of smiths arent 1911 smiths, just basic broke gun fixers...

A properly set up 1911 should be rock solid and not have any reliability issues after leaving a competent 1911 smiths shop.

Clearly, the smith should make it right, but I'm not sure I would trust him to touch the guns again, which goes to my rock and a hard place comment.

I think i would just get all or part of my money back for the work and send it to the smith you said built your other pistols or another smith who specializes in the 1911

 

[phideaux]

Re: 1911 Hammer follow......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poke</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i do have a question for the OP. have you ever, at any time after your trigger jobs were done, dropped your slide from the locked back position without a loaded magazine in the gun? if you've done this, you probably have contributed to the problem. the trigger in a 1911 free floats in it's slots....when you drop the slide, especially on an empty chamber with nothing to slow the slide down, the trigger is trying to move rearward...it's some of that equal and opposite reaction type shit going on....

normally the hammer wil be dislodged and start to fall, at this time the sear spring will catch up and push against the sear to catch the hammer at halfcock.....ouch, there went your trigger job more than likely, and you'll need a new sear and possibly a new hammer to fix the problem.

now, if you haven't dropped your slide on an empty chamber to cause this problem, don't let the last guy do any more 1911 trigger jobs for you....he's doin it wrong. i see guys who carry 1911's for a living and others that use them for CCW in the shop every day that drop their slides on an empty chamber, they should know better. it's job security for me. feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.
</div></div>

While I am nothing near a competent 1911 smith I keep seeing this on the internet for things not to do with a 1911. <span style="color: #FF0000">I understand what a loaded round does in the slide drop but if a weapon isnt sturdy enough to handle an empty slide drop then its not a very good weapon and most likely full of shity parts. </span> Either way I have dummies with for this purpose.

Gonna call monday and see what the original smith says. Also gonna go ahead and try to see if I can push one to fail tommorrow with my theory about the screw. Pretty sure its not right either way but playing with the original trigger from the gun the sear is not pushed anywhere near as far back when using it. Either way the job cannot be right so off to a 1911 smith it goes. </div></div>

it's not shitty parts that cause this. it's parts that had almost all the tolerances removed. instead of having .020" - .025" hammer hooks and a sear spring that's bent into a 90 degree angle to hold the sear in place, after a trigger job you now have .016" - .018" hammer hooks and a sear spring and hammer spring that have been lightened a lot. in conjunction with a super lightweight trigger to keep it from trying to go rearward when the slide is dropped.

if a person just has to constantly drop the slide on an empty chamber, just hold the trigger back.....problem is solved. I tell all my customers to not drop the slide on an empty chamber. if they do, it's very easy to see as soon as i put my glasses on. they're also told when they pick up their pistol that damage from this is not covered under warranty. it's called learning proper operation of the weapon, and I show every customer how to treat a nice trigger job so there won't be any problems. I'm glad to hear you use dummies for dropping the slide, I wish more people would do this. i would definately get your smith to check out the problem and see how it goes. I wish we were within driving distance, I'd check your pistols out for you free of charge. let me know if I can be of any help.

chuck

 

[RMPSTRAT]

Re: 1911 Hammer follow......

do you know the approx trigger pull weight of each? Without being hands on with them I would guess the sear springs may be too light. If they're straight then they're probably too light. Overtravel shouldn't have any impact on whether it's doubling or not. the O/T screws can be an issue if adjusted too far in causing the trigger to not travel enough to the rear and in turn not allowing the sear to travel far enough forward causing it to rub on the hammer on the way down.

 

[seanh]

Re: 1911 Hammer follow......

Crap you really want me to clear out the cobwebs don't you...it's been a while since I used to get paid to build these but I'll give it a shot. Keep in mind that it's impossible to say, "this is the problem"

actually OT can cause it to double easily...basically bump fire. Back that o/t screw out where it has no effect on the trigger and you feel a bunch of O/T...from your description, this may be done already.

Chances are, hooks are too short. Many smiths try for that "Perfect Trigger" and the shorten everything to make it feel good. If that's what was done find another smith. I can not touch the hook length and give you a great trigger. The parts you mentioned should already be at the right length anyway.

do you have any feeler gauges? test the hook length, they should be greater than about .025". I did mine around 30. (actually I rarely cut these down...it's not really necessary)



First off, make sure that finger spring has enough pressure on the disconnect...middle spring forward. Where they meet there should be some radius on the end of the spring and the back of disconnect. This helps the spring ride the disconnect.

Possible the disconnect is too short...you'll need a new one if this is the case. You don't shorten these, you clean them up.

You'll want to check for squareness of the sear hammer engagement. This can be done with a sharpie. Simply mark the edge of the sear and hammer hooks. Place them back in the gun...a little force forward on the hammer and pull the trigger a few times (yes, you can dry fire the 1911...just don't do it 1k times in a row)

pull the hammer/sear out and look at it...you should have equal rub on both hooks and both ends of the sear. If there not even, that could be your issue.


if you're close to South Florida I can hook you up with the guy that I used to build these things with/for.