Sidearms & Scatterguns 1911 itch. Sig, Kimber, DW, Colt options

[FUNCTIONAL]

I've been procrastinating for a while when it comes to my 1911 bug but I think its time to get serious and start hunting down a deal for one.

The 4 I have floating around in my head are below.

Sig TacOps Scorpion / Emperor Scorpion
Kimber TLE / Warrior
Dan Wesson Specialist (2020 revision)
Colt M45A1

100% want a railed 1911 with front serrations and Tan/FDE/Coyote flavor would be a huge bonus. On the fence for 9mm vs 45, 9mm to stay with one caliber/less recoil/better mag capacity and .45 just because its a 1911 and how God intended them to be.

Unless someone in Eastern NC or Charlotte area has one or a few of these and they want to meet up at a range I do not have a way to get hands on anything but the Kimber. I've shot a Kimber and DW and noted the triggers were excellent with the DW taking the cake by a smidge. Fit seemed tighter on the DW (10mm) than it did on the Kimber (.45) but I only have a mag worth of shots through each so not enough to be informed.

The Sig is in there as a lower cost option to see what the consensus is. The Colt is on there because I have a USMC AR/Bolt gun clone collection going on, it would fit but for a 1911 in the price range I'm in I want to be sure its the right choice.

So what feedback do you all have between any of them? Particularly interested in the controls and if any have common problems I havent dug up yet.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Dan Wesson makes some of finest 1911s short of custom shop guns. You cannot go wrong with one. I had a DW PM9 that was excellent.

 

[lht645]

Love my V-Bob, DW Valor is the best value out there in my opinion.

 

[308pirate]

Another vote for Dan Wesson. None of your other listed choices are even in the same league.

Another one you should consider: https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=137

 

[dirthead1]

I've had several 1911s from Dan Wesson, Sig, Colt, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, etc. Fit, finish, and function of the Dan Wesson is as good as any of the top tier 1911 makers. They are phenomenal pistols, especially for the price. The Springfield TRP Operator is also a nice gun.

 

[Zorrosdens]

I have two DW a Black 5” Valor 45 and a Black ECO 45 I carry. Love them.

Also Wilkins Leather works IWB Banshee and double clip mag pouch for the ECO. Before buying DW was looking seriously into TRP. I run with

.45 ACP 120gr. Xtreme Defender Solid Monolithic Hunting & Self Defense Ammo

Underwood Ammo offers the most comprehensive and innovative Lehigh Defense™ Supersonic Lead Free Handgun Ammo for personal defense & hunting. Shop now .45 ACP Copper ammo with Solid Monolithic.

www.underwoodammo.com

In my mags.

 

[Zorrosdens]

STI has some interesting offerings too probably can’t go too wrong there either. ? Staccato C or P

 

[A&8's]

As a dealer and smith who has sold and worked on/customized 1911's since the early 90's.

Kimbers are nice factory guns. However, they need to be broke in to be a reliable defensive pistol. My wife carry's a Kimber Solo. I wouldn't trust her life with a subpar EDC. Put 500 rounds of ball ammo before trusting your life with them. "Better safe than sorry." Besides, it's 500 rounds worth of practice.

Sig's. Because they are not 'standardized' compared to most other 1911's, I don't recommend them if you intend on 'tinkering' with them. Most Sig parts are proprietary (aka run of the mill 1911 parts won't fit. Even standard 1911 holsters.) Same goes for Ruger SR1911's.

Dan Wesson's. As mentioned above, DW's are the next best thing to a custom. You can't go wrong. Again, break it in with 500 rounds. (or cycle the slide with toothpaste on the ways and rails a thousand times, like the GI's done back in the day.)

RIA's. Yes, they go bang. Yes, they can be accurate. But...as someone who has had several on the mill, I can tell you the quality of metal is not as it is in what I would consider a quality pistol.

Personally, I like Springfield Armory. I carry a Range Officer Compact in 9.

As to 9 vs 45. Eh! With modern defensive ammo, 9's are leaps and bound better than they were back in the late 80's and 90's.

Whatever you get, throw the factory mags away and buy Wilson's.

 

[srt-4_uk]

STI has some interesting offerings too probably can’t go too wrong there either. ? Staccato C or P

Neither are 1911s.

 

[chrismartin]

I own Sig, Colt, Kimber, Dan Wesson, Springfield, Norinco and STI 1911's (Well, the STI is a 2011 that I built myself).
I've also shot multiple models of all of the above that friends own.

Get the Dan Wesson unless you want more capacity and then get an STI. It's not that any of them are bad, it's just that the DW is a step above the rest (Not counting STI here either, they are amazing). The models that you picked are the ones that I would recommend as well and of those from those manufacturers and by all accounts would be great, however, I would get the DW before any others.

 

[tomcatmv]

What do ya'll think of Hi Standard? I have one I picked up at a gun show about 10 or so years ago. Haven't shot it much but it is a little picky about hollow points, runs fine with ball.

 

[Kadams1563]

What changed in the DW specialist for 2020? I have been eyeballing one for awhile. Ow and just haven’t purchased yet.

I keep looking at the discretion to because I have a pistol can I don’t use lol.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

What changed in the DW specialist for 2020? I have been eyeballing one for awhile. Ow and just haven’t purchased yet.

I keep looking at the discretion to because I have a pistol can I don’t use lol.

Havent found a full description but from what I can visibly see they added front serrations and changed from a 1913 rail to a universal pistol rail. The front slide serrations are the one thing I wish the pre-2020 specialist had, I'm indifferent about
the rail change.

Thank you for the information so far guys!

Lot of comments on the sig/Kimber/DW but not much on the colt. Any particular experiences with the M45a1 compared to the DW?

I hadnt known SIG used non standard parts in their 1911s but from others feedback it seems it functions as it should but possibly the least favored of the group.

I've heard of Kimber needing a good 200-500 rounds to break in properly. This at the moment isnt intended to be a house/carry defensive gun but I do prefer what I own to be capable of it. If 500 rounds is needed then I just see it as mandatory fun .

I expected the comments on the DW. To me as well it is the top until you get into the custom realm and even in that regard I believe at my stage in the game its diminishing returns to go above a DW. It is my most expensive option though...and add to the fact that I'll likely end up stripping it and sending it off to be Ionbond to an FDE/Coyote color and im in it. Benefit is it does give me the 9mm/45 option unlike all but the Kimber.

STI I've looked into but honestly (and maybe a silly reason) I just cant get on board with the looks of any of them. If I was looking for a pure performance/comp gun id 100% be looking into them hard.

Springfield I'll add to the list. I know quite a few that have had the TRP and loved it.

 

[A&8's]

but not much on the colt.

Colt's are ok. Just over priced for what they are, IMO. Still trying to ride on the "Colt" name.

Also, IMO, whatever you get, get a series 70.

 

[pmclaine]

@FUNCTIONAL

I'll champion Colt as you are asking.

I own 3, and for Carry I prefer Commanders.....

Top is my primary carry, a Combat Commander. It's a 70s era build runs great.

Middle is a 1968 LW I bought from my Honey Hole because it was beautiful. It's also a palindrome. The slide is turned a plum blue. Ejector needs some shaping because you get the occasional case off the forehead and after one or two of those you start getting the yips. Easy fix I just haven't got around to it.

Bottom is a Decommissioned M45A1. Softest shooting 1911 I've had, other was a 1991A1, and I'm guessing that is due to the double recoil spring design. Love that gun. Plan on using it in a class or two but I see now prices on Gunbroker for the USMC strikeouts are crazy.

Check out KC Customs you might find a 1911 that satisfies your 1911 itch as well as it would compliment your M40 fetish.

A MARSOC Mod 0 is what I have ntend to have built someday if I get a CMP Colt.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

@FUNCTIONAL

I'll champion Colt as you are asking.

I own 3, and for Carry I prefer Commanders.....

Top is my primary carry, a Combat Commander. It's a 70s era build runs great.

Middle is a 1968 LW I bought from my Honey Hole because it was beautiful. It's also a palindrome. The slide is turned a plum blue. Ejector needs some shaping because you get the occasional case off the forehead and after one or two of those you start getting the yips. Easy fix I just haven't got around to it.

Bottom is a Decommissioned M45A1. Softest shooting 1911 I've had, other was a 1991A1, and I'm guessing that is due to the double recoil spring design. Love that gun. Plan on using it in a class or two but I see now prices on Gunbroker for the USMC strikeouts are crazy.

God I love the looks of the M45a1. You do have an expensive one on your hands now for sure! Would fund 2-3 nice clones in the future haha. Not sure if youve fired a kimber or DW but how does the trigger on the M45 compare?

I looked at the KW shop and it seems they put out nice stuff. Might have to look into that in the future for sure.

At almost $0.10 cheaper a round for 9mm vs 45 I'm leaning heavy towards the Specialist in 9mm right now. We shall see though. Good information so far. Really appreciate it.

 

[pmclaine]

One of the gun houses contracted a special edition 9mm.

It was Commander sized, very nice checkering n the front strap, rail, great sights, looked hard corps.

This is close but the ne I saw was railed. Probably called the CCO railed.....

Combat Unit - Colt's Manufacturing LLC

[elementor-template id="2683"]

www.colt.com

I like checkering on the front strap though none of mine have it.

I held a Clarks Custom once. They do some sort of crazy medieval stippling to the front strap that creates shads of metal that make your hand the loop to the gun hook Velcro.

Word as of two years ago was that Colt is now producing guns as good as any in their history.

As long as they aren't bankrupt you should do okay.

Full size CCO 9mm railed.

Combat Unit - Colt's Manufacturing LLC

[elementor-template id="2683"]

www.colt.com

 

[Zorrosdens]

Neither are 1911s.

My bad.

 

[1911hombre]

Another vote for DW. Hands down.

 

[NPV]

Looks like the new Specialist has a different frame (dustcover is a single slot and the angle is cut vertically now), along with FCS. Not my cup of tea but it still wouldn’t keep me from buying over the other options. I would keep it black though, coating 1911s that haven’t previously been cerakoted can cause issues as it adds thickness to certain dimensions.

 

[Jlknights61]

To echo many above, I would also vote dan Wesson. I have a guardian .45 that has been absolutely fantastic. Never a hiccup with ball or hp ammo.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Looks like the new Specialist has a different frame (dustcover is a single slot and the angle is cut vertically now), along with FCS. Not my cup of tea but it still wouldn’t keep me from buying over the other options. I would keep it black though, coating 1911s that haven’t previously been cerakoted can cause issues as it adds thickness to certain dimensions.

Agreed on cerakote. If I coat anything it will be by DLC/IonBond which shouldnt change the clearances enough to matter.

beautiful collection by the way.

 

[pmclaine]

Agreed on cerakote. If I coat anything it will be by DLC/IonBond which shouldnt change the clearances enough to matter.

beautiful collection by the way.

Cerakote was an error on the M45A1.

Parkerizing and love are all the metal protections a 1911 requires.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Not if you actually enjoy shooting

 

[pmclaine]

Not if you actually enjoy shooting

I enjoy shooting and if bluing can hold up Parkerizing can only make it better........if not as nice looking.

I love park most my rifles wear it.

If I was a high speed maritime operator stainless steel and some sort of anti corrosion treatment would make sense but as Im low speed and have the time to take slathering my shit with lubricant, by hand, and enjoy the patina that comes with wear, than Im in on parkerizing.

I hope I live long enough to see some of my new parked rifles turn olive drab like my Garand and '03 have done but sadly mine never will as they lack the ingredients of bravery, adrenaline and enemy blood that got into their metals.

 

[jg6.5]

Another vote for Dan Wesson here, I love my Valor. DW's website currently says they're "discontinued / limited production" though, so you might have to dig to find one if that's the particular model you end up wanting.

 

[Wyzrd]

In order of preference for me: DW, SA, Kimber/Sig. I’ve owned a couple Kimbers and a couple DW 1911’s, and never had an issue with any of them. Of the ones you listed, I’d spring for a DW all day long. They just make a top notch 1911!

 

[Charger442]

see my thread about jumping into a high end 1911 for other folks advice on the DW. i own a springfield now, and its a base mil-spec model.... its never been an issue of reliability but i will say it's "unrefined".

i think with the kimbers, you get a LOT of features and value for the money. i cant attest to reliability of the 1911 because i only own a kimber micro, which is a mini 1911 in 380 but its been flawless.

i specifically stay away from Sig 1911s, because if John Moses Browning would have intended a 1911 to have an external extractor, he'd have put one.

 

[srt-4_uk]

I enjoy shooting and if bluing can hold up Parkerizing can only make it better........if not as nice looking.

Just because it was designed in 1911, doesn't mean you should use the same coatings from 1911. In a world of NP3, DLC, Nitride, TiN, there's no reason to park or blue a gun unless it's a historical piece.

 

[pmclaine]

Just because it was designed in 1911, doesn't mean you should use the same coatings from 1911. In a world of NP3, DLC, Nitride, TiN, there's no reason to park or blue a gun unless it's a historical piece.

Sure there is...........beauty, discipline and to avoid having what everyone else has.

The original question is about 1911s.

That alone is usually met with the answer "Buy a Glock"

If you are interested in a 1911 in the first place all that other stuff is probably not to your liking anyway.

 

[A&8's]

If you are interested in a 1911 in the first place all that other stuff is probably not to your liking anyway.

Or you're just smart.

 

[pmclaine]

Or you're just smart.

Why does anyone buy/enjoy an antique motorcycle or car.

I mean they smell, leak oil, are so simple technologically.

Its dumb to have such passion for that crap.

Why don't they just get a Prius?

 

[A&8's]

Why does anyone buy/enjoy an antique motorcycle or car.

I mean they smell, leak oil, are so simple technologically.

Its dumb to have such passion for that crap.

Why don't they just get a Prius?

Let me know if the Prius will be around in 50 years and still desired by enthusiasts.

 

[pmclaine]

Or you're just smart.

Perhaps my reading comprehension of @A&8's post above was in error.

Based on his response to my response Im thinking we are on the same page - make that parchment - and I owe him an apology.

 

[srt-4_uk]

I guess I just prefer shooting over re-finishing

 

[pmclaine]

I guess I just prefer shooting over re-finishing

Do you shoot that much to ever require refinishing?

My 1931 parked rifle still looks good despite being available for use through a few conflicts.

My saving grace is owning so many guns, rotating through them no one gun gets worn excessively.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Most of it is holster/handling wear from dry firing but yes. I've sent guns out to H&M to get nitrited because the factory bluing had worn and started to surface rust.

 

[Heretoimproveforhunting]

dont overlook ed brown. once i got a hold of one i sold my kimbers.

 

[clcustom1911]

Dan Wesson. Fit, finish, accuracy are all top notch. Shot one a few times and it was an excellent firearm.

Also, Springfield Operator, TRP Operator. I carried a standard Operator on and off duty for 5 years. Excellent as well.

 

[kthomas]

Agreed on cerakote. If I coat anything it will be by DLC/IonBond which shouldnt change the clearances enough to matter.

beautiful collection by the way.

Why would you get it recoated? The finish that comes on the DW's, like the black Valor, come with an awesome coating already. The "duty finish black" is very durable, I see no reason to change that.

Does the model you are looking at not come with the duty finish black?

 

[308pirate]

RIA's. Yes, they go bang. Yes, they can be accurate. But...as someone who has had several on the mill, I can tell you the quality of metal is not as it is in what I would consider a quality pistol.

You can't tell shit about metallurgy by running a mill cutter through a pistol.

Change my mind

 

[308pirate]

Just because it was designed in 1911, doesn't mean you should use the same coatings from 1911. In a world of NP3, DLC, Nitride, TiN, there's no reason to park or blue a gun unless it's a historical piece.

Only an idiot thinks "Nitride" is a coating

It's nitriding, not "nitride" BTW

 

[srt-4_uk]

I never said it was a coating.

Change my mind

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Why would you get it recoated? The finish that comes on the DW's, like the black Valor, come with an awesome coating already. The "duty finish black" is very durable, I see no reason to change that.

Does the model you are looking at not come with the duty finish black?

For no other reason than to have it FDE/Coyote. It wouldnt be an immediate thing on the list but once I get a decent stock of mags, good holster and 500 rounds down the barrel it would be the next thing Id do.

Yes it comes in stainless and duty finish. I have no problem with the quality of the finish...never read a bad thing about their coatings.

Its dumb to have such passion for that crap.

Everytime I sit down and ask what the hell am I doing spending crazy money on "outdated" tech in my clone builds (or in this case a 1911 vs anything else) I always think back to the scene from Gone in 60 Seconds and life just makes sense.

Memphis: Mmmm. But, you know, this is the one. Yes, yes yes... I saw three of these parked outside the local Starbucks (Match) this morning, which tells me only one thing. There's too many self-indulgent wieners in this city with too much bloody money! Now, if I was driving a 1967 275 GTB four-cam(Darpa XM-3)...

Roger: You would not be a self-indulgent wiener, sir...You'd be a connoisseur.

Memphis: Precisely. Champagne would fall from the heavens. Doors would open. Velvet ropes would part.

 

[BKSSNIPER]

I know less than anything about 1911s but I just bought my first a Dan Wesson Specialist from a friend. Got a dozen Wilson 47 magazines to go with it. Now for a holster.

 

[pmclaine]

I know less than anything about 1911s but I just bought my first a Dan Wesson Specialist from a friend. Got a dozen Wilson 47 magazines to go with it. Now for a holster.

Check out Garrett Industries Silent Thunder great melding of Kydex and Leather.

 

[A&8's]

You can't tell shit about metallurgy by running a mill cutter through a pistol.

Change my mind

Cut .002-.005” down and find a void. That’s not quality to me.

 

[nikonNUT]

Have a Kimber Pro TLE... Love it! But not railed.

Have a Kimber Warrior S.O.C... Love it!

STI has some interesting offerings too probably can’t go too wrong there either. ? Staccato C or P

Just bought a STI Stacatto P and a Stacatto C... Next level side arms right there.



P.S. I'm a huge fan of the commander profile but for carry I dig the stacatto-c form factor. Think commander slide on an officers frame. I think Kimber called their version a Covert.

 

[308pirate]

Cut .002-.005” down and find a void. That’s not quality to me.

I'm not going to get into an argument over this. Suffice it to say that your definition of quality is based on a very shallow understanding.

 

[perttime]

...
I like checkering on the front strap though none of mine have it.
...

Checkering would be nice.
I make do with a piece of skateboard tape on my only 1911-style pistol. It does the job and the same piece has been there for many years now.