Sidearms & Scatterguns 1911 price check

[edubya]

I have the chance to buy a Colt 80 series Gov't model for $550. I don't know anything about 1911's other than Colt is the original manufacturer. The gun is not perfect. It looks like someone did a hack job of painting it flat black. I could scrap some of the paint off with my thumbnail. Functionally the gun seems good. The only isse is the mag will not lock into place without pressing the mag release. It also has some kind of laser sight guide rod. It does not work now, but it may just need a battery. What do you think 1911 guru's? Is it worth it?

This is the only pic I have:

 

[SledDog]

Re: 1911 price check

I'd have a tough time paying $550 for that. I don't know what it's worth but that doesn't work for me.

A quick check on gunbroker has the std model series 80s anywhere from $650 to $900 in much better shape than that.

 

[317millhand]

Re: 1911 price check

Id pass on that as well. If the paint is that bad, its hard to tell what else has been hacked on.

 

[FX44]

Re: 1911 price check

I would pass, with a little hunting on the internet you are sure to find a better gun.

 

[Xjcutter]

Re: 1911 price check

Last one I picked up in that kind of shape I paid $400 for and after getting it back into shooting shape. I should have just spent the money and bought a nicer gun to begin with.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: 1911 price check

New .45 Made in Arkansas for 'around $500

http://regentarms.com/products/models/r100.html

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[Redcreek1]

Re: 1911 price check

I would pass on that one.

You could get a top quality 70 series slide and frame from several differnet manufactureres for about that price and build it up, or have it built up from there.

Likely on that Colt Series 80 you would have to replace all of the internals, tighten slide to frame fit, replace the barrel and bushing and have it refinished and it would still be a used 80 series with those extra anoying parts.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: 1911 price check


That gun looks HOT. Stolen. Re-painted by some clown to coneal its initial identity, etc., or at least by someone who had no more a clue what it really was....they could have been firing gravel down the barrel.

Don't get it. Its a fishing net weight.

 

[Flatland308]

Re: 1911 price check

You can figure that any 1911 you get for $500 you will spend at least that much getting it where it needs to be for carry purposes. It does look pretty weak.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: 1911 price check

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedCreek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Likely on that Colt Series 80 you would have to replace all of the internals, tighten slide to frame fit, replace the barrel and bushing and have it refinished and it would still be a used 80 series with those extra anoying parts.

</div></div>

You can tell all that from one $hitty picture?

EW,

It looks to be an enhanced model with the flat top slide and factory beaver tail GS. Not that it would be worth anymore than a standard Gov. model, but for reference. It boils down to how bad do you want it? It's worth what someone is willing to pay. I've bought nicer for less, but not in quite a while.

 

[Redcreek1]

Re: 1911 price check

a. I prefaced my comments with "Likely"
b. 30 years experience as a 1911 pistolsmith and one crappy picture would lead me to the conclusions I stated.
c. My opinion is that I wouldnt waste my money on it, and that's MY opinion
d. If the poster wants a beater gun and doesnt care about its appearance or funtion, then that may be the gun for him.
e. I may be a bit particular when it comes to 1911's
f. Maybe you should buy it... Your friends will all be jealous

 

[oneshot onekill]

Re: 1911 price check

I'd have to see it in person to make any kind of judgement at all. You can tell NOTHING from that picture... Except that it's been painted. It might be a Great pistol that someone just painted because they didn't like the original finish. Or it could be something that someone had to paint because they just sanded all of the rust off of it and thet don't want it to rust anymore.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: 1911 price check

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedCreek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a. I prefaced my comments with "Likely"
b. 30 years experience as a 1911 pistolsmith and one crappy picture would lead me to the conclusions I stated.
c. My opinion is that I wouldnt waste my money on it, and that's MY opinion
d. If the poster wants a beater gun and doesnt care about its appearance or funtion, then that may be the gun for him.
e. I may be a bit particular when it comes to 1911's
f. Maybe you should buy it... Your friends will all be jealous </div></div>

a. Which was the first red flag. Since when does finish wear indicate anything about internal parts condition?
b. Do you always replace internals when someone brings a gun in for a re-blue?
c. As a 1911 gunsmith, I would think you could see the potential the gun has.
d. Then why discourage him by telling him the worst case scenario when you have no idea about how the gun functions?
e. Clearly, you are only comfortable working on guns "fresh out of the box".
f. If it were available to me, I probably would, because I can see the potential to double my money with just a little effort but, I would probably just keep it.

 

[1911fan]

Re: 1911 price check

Pass, at $550 anyway. At this point it's a parts gun, since it doesn't work correctly. Might not even go bang. You'll probably have to strip it pretty far apart/all the way apart to get at the malfunction, so while you're in it plan to upgrade all the internals.
I'm selling two newish Springfield Armory 1911s for $650 apiece locally. You can buy a much nicer pistol for a little more money, and not have to rebuild it.


1911fan

PS: I'd offer him $250 for it, and consider it a project.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: 1911 price check

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd have to see it in person to make any kind of judgement at all. You can tell NOTHING from that picture... Except that it's been painted. It might be a Great pistol that someone just painted because they didn't like the original finish. Or it could be something that someone had to paint because they just sanded all of the rust off of it and thet don't want it to rust anymore. </div></div>

Oneshot,

You must have <span style="font-weight: bold">35</span> years experience as a 1911 gunsmith.

Spot on.

 

[oneshot onekill]

Re: 1911 price check

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd have to see it in person to make any kind of judgement at all. You can tell NOTHING from that picture... Except that it's been painted. It might be a Great pistol that someone just painted because they didn't like the original finish. Or it could be something that someone had to paint because they just sanded all of the rust off of it and thet don't want it to rust anymore. </div></div>

Oneshot,

You must have <span style="font-weight: bold">35</span> years experience as a 1911 gunsmith.

Spot on.

</div></div>
I don't know if you're joking or not but it doesn't matter.

I am not a Gunsmith but I do have over 35 years collecting, buying and selling pretty much any kind of firearm you can think of... Short of Full-autos. My point was that if I don't have it in my hands I can't tell anything about it. Obviously, if it's just a Nice Nickel or Stainless gun that someone painted because it was too flashy, it's well worth $550.00. On the other hand, if it was painted because the finish was sanded off or otherwise removed and it was painted to protect the bare metal, it's not worth much. I hope that's how I came across. That picture just can't tell the whole story

 

[Redcreek1]

Re: 1911 price check

I've worked on enough older series 80 Colts and the general quality, slide-to-frame fit, quality of internal parts etc, usually justify their replacement or repair.
As a pistolsmith I do see the potential for this gun, with a lot of time and money applied to it.
As far as "discouraging him" most all the other replies shared my opinion, and agian, as I said thats MY opinion, take it or leave it. Thats what forums are for.
You can buy a new slide and frame of 70 series design for that price though, as I stated, just so the guy is considering all his options.

As far as your comment of "I'm clearly only comfortable working on stuff "fresh out of the box". Below are photos of a series 80 I rebuilt, which was trashed. And, below that are before and after photos of a Springfield Compact done for one of the top Federal SWAT/SRT officers. This is his carry gun and he has shot several courses of fire with it in classes since, with flawless function.

I would appreciate it if you posted photos of your work for comparison. That way we can all see you know what your talking about.

Oh, ya I forgot, you will be seeing a feature article in Combat Handguns on my work, plus some sidebars. Let me know when your stuff will be showing up there...

Colt General Officer's Rebuild:

Springfield Compact Before:

Springfield Comapct After: Properly fitted and blended beavertail, raised front-strap, custom checkered front strap, custom fitted bull barrel, milled frame for clark/Para ramp, blended magwell, milled slife for Novak sights, 45 degree cary bevel, fitted new internals, etc

 

[2brothers641]

Re: 1911 price check

Nice work on those.

 

[Redcreek1]

Re: 1911 price check

Yes, of course if I had it on my bench I could tell you exactly its condition, inside and out.

If you work on lots of 1911's and lots of older Colt Series 80's you know generally what to expect. Slide/frame fit is poor, internal parts are very rough and poorly fit, etc.

If you read my comments carefully I preface my comments with "likely" because based on its external appeance and some aftermarket parts (which tells me it may have had other mods done by less than qualified persons) it is "likely" it will need to be rebuilt and wouldnt you want to know that info before laying down your hard earned cash?

Also, I said if he was looking for just a beater gun to throw in the truck and the gun was functionally good, then go for it. But I would have it checked out first. If he is buying it for a fix'er upper, then I think I would pass, but that my opinion.

-E

 

[RADcustom]

Re: 1911 price check

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedCreek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would appreciate it if you posted photos of your work for comparison. That way we can all see you know what your talking about.

-E </div></div>

As requested.

Here are a few of my own personal guns that I've built.

Here is an early six digit 1911 that was recovered after a flood. The pitting was too bad to keep it original so, I made a rail out of some scrap and gave it a heavy dehorn to remove most of the pitting.

Here is a 6" long slide I built for shooting Bulls eye. (welded a 1" piece on and re-contoured the profile)

Here is my Norinco I tuned up to shoot IPSC limited.

Here is my MkII 22/45 I rebarreled with 6 7/8" barrel, added wood grips, a scope base and a trigger job.

Here is the bolt handle repair I did on Mac 50.
Before

After

You do checkering I see, me too.

Is that sufficient? I have more.

An article in some gun rag with your picture in the border doesn't swing much weight with me. Custom to me, is more than just a pretty paint job.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: 1911 price check


Redcreek, that is a pretty paint job and the photography is top notch as well. I think someone should let you off the hook. You have been had.

As an in-house smith, the guy you're arguing with built 1911's for Clark Custom Guns for a tad over 10 years.

 

[Redcreek1]

Re: 1911 price check

Casey,

Thanks

He obviously just likes to argue and chooses not to read what was written, but rather try to imply what wasnt written.

He also didnt read the list of work done on the guns beyond the Cerakote work, which he obviously is jealous of.

That 80 series would be a good gun for him, but probably not for the guy who posted the original question.

Here is some more pretty paint jobs: (All were re-build/mods, not just coating)

Kimber Rebuild

Before:

Well, that all for now, I have to go do more pretty paint jobs.

 

[Redcreek1]

Re: 1911 price check

Oh, ya, I forgot to mention that in addition to the upcomming coverage in that rag of a publication Combat Handguns you will be seeing my guns in AR Rifleman, Special Weapons for Military and Police, Guns and Weapons, etc

Lots of pretty paint for the rags...

You may want to stay away from the news stand in the coming months since you obviously cant handle it.

Here is the subject of two full feature articles in AR Rifleman and Special Weapons (October / November) Tomahawk CQTC

This one will be in Guns and Weapons - Apache Light Tactical

On checkering, I thinks mine is better: Also raised the frontstrap, undercut trigger guard, etc

 

[RADcustom]

Re: 1911 price check

Nice, maybe when you get enough rag articles you can have your own reality show.

I really don't like to argue because I don't type very fast and it really doesn't accomplish anything but, when somebody comes on a thread and claims to likely have enough experience to likely evaluate a gun from a likely shitty picture, I likely will call bullshit.

Congratulations on all of your upcoming articles, I'm sure they will drum up lots of interest.

Don't let the paint fumes get to you.

 

[Arbiter]

Re: 1911 price check

Great custom work from both 'smiths shown here (particularly digging the custom-made light rail for sheer ingenuity, and the raised front strap checkering).

Statistically, that Colt likely needs a great deal of work to be brought up to the standards of perfection demanded by both smiths here.

On the other hand, it's probably a fully serviceable firearm, that's mainly just in need of refinishing. $550 for a Colt with a Lasermax guide rod laser isn't a bad deal, provided there's nothing grossly wrong with the weapon.

It all depends on what you want...

 

[edubya]

Re: 1911 price check

Thanks for all the input! Last time I checked this thread there was only 2 posts. I decided to pass on this one for now. I don't know enough about 1911's to fix this thing up. If I had more time and the price was a little lower I would go for it. I have been looking at the S&W TFP. It looks like a nice pistol for only a couple hundred more than this well worn Colt.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: 1911 price check

Well, it's a Colt.

If they dropped the price down, I'd say pick it up, and use it to do your own work on.