Sidearms & Scatterguns 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

[jeo556]

I currently own a NHC fullsize Talon that I've been using at my daily carry gun. The gun is terribly accurate and the fit and finish are amazing as well. The down side is that she weights in at 40oz. unloaded and with my current back problems I'm looking into something a little lighter/smaller.

I'm looking at the Dan Wesson CCO and it seems to have everything that I'm looking for as far as size, weight, and quality.

Question that I'm asking those who have handled both "grades" of pistols is "Am I going to be disappointed with a Dan Wesson after shooting and carrying a Night Hawk Custom for the last three years?"

Also, the only .45 acp that I've ever shot is the all steel fullsize 1911, is going to an aluminum officers frame going to suprise the shit outta me as far as recoil is concerned?

Thanks for any help in advance.

 

[Falar]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

If anything the Dan Wesson will leave you wondering "is this Nighthawk worth double the Dan Wesson?".

Just my opinion and am sure others may beg to differ.

EDIT:

Here is a good comparison vs some other high dollar 1911s (Les Baer, SA Professional)

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=321236

 

[308SR90]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

Jeo556 you may be disappointed but you may not it all depends you what you like about your nighthawk and what you find in a dan wesson, my self i would go with nighthawk over a wesson, i had a Nighthawk Larry Vickers tactical and sold it it didn't feel right to be but fit and finish and accuracy were top notch, it's going to come down to what feels right to you.

Montrose

 

[Guy Montag]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

I've a good friend who's an old school gunsmith with a ton of experience with Dan Wesson, and I once was considering a similar situation. He said save your money, the quality isn't there versus what you could buy for your dollar.

If you buy the Wesson, you're going to kick yourself for ever putting down the Nighthawk.

You've been warned!!

 

[Mendy300wm]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

I'm a Dan wesson guy, but its all personal preference... if I were a banker and not a fire fighter I might be a nighthawk guy

 

[jeo556]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

Falar, thanks for that review. Everyone, I also appreciate your input. I will admit that I'm a little concerned that I've been spoiled by the NHC. I have to say that after owning my NHC I was less than excited with many of the numerous 1911's that I fondled at the NRA convention last year. That being said, there were also some factory grade 1911's that didn't feel abad to me at all.

I think that I'm gonna go ahead and pick up the Dan Wesson and shoot it side by side with the NHC, then I'll know for sure which one to part with.

 

[darrenk75b]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

Dan Wessons of 10 years ago can't hold a candle to the current versions. They may not be a Nighthawk, but when compared to similarly priced 1911s (e.g. Springfield TRP), I think that the Dan Wessons are a great value - IMHO the best production 1911 out there. Fit, finish, quality of components, etc are all very good.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeo556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Falar, thanks for that review.</div></div>

+1.

 

[Double-edged]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

Dan Wessons are great guns. I would NOT buy a Night Hawk over a Dan Wesson unless I had a lot of desires in regard to options that the DW doesn't have. As it turns out, the Dan Wesson Valor is constructed with EXACTLY all of the options that I presently want in a .45 ACP 1911 so they are perfect for me.

Quality NOT in Dan Wesson? Don't believe that for an instant. I've owned full customs from a lot of major gunsmiths as well as the "production custom" stuff from various manufacturers and the Dan Wesson pistols stand right up there with any of them. The only thing that you might find lacking (and you might find this with full custom stuff, too) is that they ARE a production gun and there's not a lot of dehorning done, barrel is not perfectly flush-crowned with the bushing, etc. This doesn't affect quality but is just a matter of aesthetics that some might or might not care about.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

I drive a Toyota that is absolutely the best vehicle I've ever owned, but would gladly trade for a Lexus if someone else would else would pick up the tab.

 

[Guy Montag]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Double-edged</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quality NOT in Dan Wesson? Don't believe that for an instant. </div></div>

To each his own, but a professional gunsmith with 50 years of experience who's done work for Wesson and knows the company inside and out differs with your opinion. We're talking about someone who's worked in the industry longer than I've been alive, and an individual who's NOT prone to hyperbole. When he stated the quality since CZ took over is not up to snuff for what your dollar could buy, I listen to experience.

Glad you're pleased with their guns and find them right for what you're looking for, that's really what matters when you get right down to it.

 

[Captramrod01]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Double-edged</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quality NOT in Dan Wesson? Don't believe that for an instant. </div></div>

To each his own, but a professional gunsmith with 50 years of experience who's done work for Wesson and knows the company inside and out differs with your opinion. We're talking about someone who's worked in the industry longer than I've been alive, and an individual who's NOT prone to hyperbole. When he stated the quality since CZ took over is not up to snuff for what your dollar could buy, I listen to experience.

Glad you're pleased with their guns and find them right for what you're looking for, that's really what matters when you get right down to it. </div></div>

I'm curious as to what your guy considers a better 1911 for less then $1500 then.

 

[Falar]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captramrod01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Double-edged</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quality NOT in Dan Wesson? Don't believe that for an instant. </div></div>

To each his own, but a professional gunsmith with 50 years of experience who's done work for Wesson and knows the company inside and out differs with your opinion. We're talking about someone who's worked in the industry longer than I've been alive, and an individual who's NOT prone to hyperbole. When he stated the quality since CZ took over is not up to snuff for what your dollar could buy, I listen to experience.

Glad you're pleased with their guns and find them right for what you're looking for, that's really what matters when you get right down to it. </div></div>

I'm curious as to what your guy considers a better 1911 for less then $1500 then. </div></div>

So am I, and I want to hear specifics as to why. I can't even think of another gun under 1500 without a single MIM part or a slide/frame and barrel fit anywhere even close to Dan Wesson. Since CZ took over the quality has actually improved by leaps and bounds, they are far from what they were in the early days under Bob Serva. Maybe his friend has an ax to grind against them or something; I just don't see how this claim can be substantiated.

 

[Arbiter]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captramrod01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Double-edged</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quality NOT in Dan Wesson? Don't believe that for an instant. </div></div>

To each his own, but a professional gunsmith with 50 years of experience who's done work for Wesson and knows the company inside and out differs with your opinion. We're talking about someone who's worked in the industry longer than I've been alive, and an individual who's NOT prone to hyperbole. When he stated the quality since CZ took over is not up to snuff for what your dollar could buy, I listen to experience.

Glad you're pleased with their guns and find them right for what you're looking for, that's really what matters when you get right down to it. </div></div>

I'm curious as to what your guy considers a better 1911 for less then $1500 then. </div></div>

So am I, and I want to hear specifics as to why. I can't even think of another gun under 1500 without a single MIM part or a slide/frame and barrel fit anywhere even close to Dan Wesson. Since CZ took over the quality has actually improved by leaps and bounds, they are far from what they were in the early days under Bob Serva. Maybe his friend has an ax to grind against them or something; I just don't see how this claim can be substantiated.</div></div>

Perhaps he's referring to the price hike from Dan Wesson a year or two back; up until the price jump the DW 1911s like the Bobtail were hands-down the most outrageous steal in the 1911 world.

As a very happy Fusion owner who almost bought a current production Dan Wesson instead, I'd have to admit that Fusion's fit and finish are a bit better than Dan Wesson when compared side by side...but they're also much harder to come by, and tend to run a bit more. I lucked into my Fusion for $1400, but retail would run about $1900 on a similar carry configuration.

 

[jeo556]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

I went to my FFL this evening and picked up the Dan Wesson CCO and first impressions are really good. The fit and finish are really nice and I'm really impressed with the trigger. Total disclosure, the gentlemen that I purchased the CCO off of changed out the hammer and sear for Wilson Combat components.

I'm really pleased with the size and weight and it seems to be exactly what I'm looking for as far as a carry gun.

Once I got the CCO home I compared it side by side to the NH Talon and here's my 15 minute comparison run down.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Trigger:</span> This is too close for me to call. If I HAD to pick one I'd say the CCO but not by much.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Slide to frame fit:</span> The CCO is tighter but the Talon feels more like it's on bearings. I feel that some of this can be attributed to the fact that the CCO is much newer and not yet broken it. Overall I like the NH Talon better.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Thumb safety:</span> I know that this may seem strange but I've always thought that the thumb safety on my NH was leaps and bounds better than anything else that I've felt and it's always something that look for when fondling a 1911. This comparison is no exception, the safety on the NH has a very smooth feel but with a tactile and audible click in both directions. The CCO is decidedly less smooth and it doesn't seem to have nearly the tactile or audio click. I prefer the NH hands down.

So to conclude my 15 minute review I really like both pistols. I will say that overall I prefer the NH but I think that the CCO will break-in with use and my preference may change. Hopefully I'll make it out to the range this weekend to see how the CCO shoots compared to the NH, I'll report back then.

 

[jeo556]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

Well I got a chance to get to the range this afternoon and shoot both the NH Talon and the DW CCO. Here's a little run down of my opinion.

Let me admit that I'm far from a great pistol shot. I have great days and some bad ones as well. Today started off on the bad side but I cleaned it up by the time I left the range. For me, shooting unsupported, both pistols shot to the same point of aim(about 2" left) and were equally accurate at the 7 yard range. Would the Talon be more accurate at 25 yards? Probably, Maybe, I don't know as I rarely shoot pistols at much more than ten yards.

The NH Talon has been as reliable as any pistol that I've owned in my life and today the DW CCO did her part as well. 200 rounds of Winchester white box, 25 rounds of Federal Premium 230 gr. HST (+P), and 25 rounds of Winchester 185 gr. Silvertip all went without a hiccup. Both 7 round mags fed perfectly and after reading some reports on the net I was a little worried that they may be a problem, not so.

What actually suprised me the most was the lack of increased recoil as compared to the NH Talon. Shooting them side by side there wasn't really that much of a difference. The only thing that I can think of is that the recoil spring on the smaller gun is heavier and absorbs more recoil, I don't really know and if someone can explain this to me I'm all ears.

Well, in closing I'm not ready to say that I like the CCO as much as my Talon. But, with a family and new mortgage now I can't really justify the increase in price for the subtle improvemnts that the Talon offers. If in the future I'm looking for another 1911 I believe that Dan Wesson will get the nod, unless I hit the lottery in the mean time.

I'll try to post a pic or two of my 1911 duo, soon to be one if my wife has a say........but we'll see.

 

[Downzero]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

No checkering? And is that a cast frame? How much was the CCO?

 

[jeo556]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

I scored the CCO for $1200 but I believe they go for more than $1400 new. It does have what Dan Wesson calls "chain link pattern" on the front strap and the mainspring housing. Dan Wesson's website says that the frame is forged aluminum. Here's a pic I snagged from the web.....

 

[MPrimo]

Re: 1911's, Dan Wesson compared to NHC?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Double-edged</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quality NOT in Dan Wesson? Don't believe that for an instant. </div></div>

To each his own, but a professional gunsmith with 50 years of experience who's done work for Wesson and knows the company inside and out differs with your opinion. We're talking about someone who's worked in the industry longer than I've been alive, and an individual who's NOT prone to hyperbole. When he stated the quality since CZ took over is not up to snuff for what your dollar could buy, I listen to experience.

Glad you're pleased with their guns and find them right for what you're looking for, that's really what matters when you get right down to it. </div></div>


This is contrary to most everything else I have read about the DW 1911s. By the way, I have 8 of them so my opinion probably qualifies as fanboy hyperbole so I will spare you. I am also a Mechanical Engineer/Amateur Gunsmith and I have found nothing below board in any of my newer Dan Wessons. They have gotten better of late with better parts and more care in assembly. They are built by a team of less than 20 people in New York state and they make less than 4000 guns a year. CZ has not turned them into an assembly line item. Bruce Gray (Grayguns Custom) is a VERY well respected 1911 expert and he speaks very highly of the DW product. Regarding the CCO, it is my favorite 1911 for carry. Mine was made in 2009 and has been perfect since I got it new. The newer models have a better finish on the slide and even better internal components. Please give one a try ... you will not be disappointed.