1940's Winchester M70 (308)

[Mattrmvpd]

Well...several months ago I decided I wanted to give HighPower/Palma a chance as I have always shot with scoped rifles.

My budget was a little tight so I set off to look for a .308 that had some of the accessories already with it.

I was able to find a Winchester Model 70 (.308) that was already tapped for sights front and rear. The seller gave a good description of it and even though unsure of its exact year, it was believed to be a (6) digit Model 70 that had a different stock but had some irons sights with it.

Barrel is marked .308 and is about 25 inches. HEAVY contour.

Sooo we fast forward and I make the purchase. It shows up and as I am reading off the serial number for the A & D book.... We get to noticing that it is in fact a (5) digit Winchester M70.

I kinda figured that at that point it was a tad older than I thought originally but I have only been able to date it around the MID - LATE 40's...

The rifle was in overall good shape and had been sitting the last (40) years... Supposedly it had only had about 200 rounds ever fired and then just put up.

The bore makes me believe that in fact it has been shot VERY LITTLE.

Seeing that the barrel had some VERY minor handling marks and some light speckles of rust, I made the decision to send it out to have it all refinished.

I did go back with the black light shined blueing and also had the stock re-coated, which is a very nice after market oak target stock that came with the Freeland rail system.

The first (3) pics are of the rifle as it came in... no real close ups of the minor rust but it was enough that it HAD to be delt with.

After removing the barreled action from the stock, I learned that it had be professionally bedded and done EXTREMELY well. I made sure that during the refinish of the stock that this was to NOT be disturbed as it is really one of the BEST jobs I had seen.

Soo off to the refinishing and she comes back yesterday.

I went ahead and put the rifle back together and added the front sight back on it. The rear mount is on as well and the rear sight (Olympic) is LIKE NEW with several accessories.

The finish came out VERY NICE. Its hard to see it in the pics but its a very nice black and very smoothe.

I have added the hand stop (VERSA POD SETUP), Turner Sling, TUBB 4 Way Buttpad to help out..

Here are pics of the current setup, (4 pics)

QUESTION:

I have been UNABLE to find a rear sight that actually fits this reciever and ONLY plan to play with a scope on it and NOT leave a scope on it.

BUT... I would like to find a scope mount for the single base that is on there. Does ANYONE know if ther is a (Y) type scope ring setup that could be used to mount the scope utilizing one single base? All help would be apreciated. I have a new 30mm Super Sniper that I would like to be able to QUICK DETACH just for goofing off.

Hope you all like it... she has come out looking pretty nice for me.

Matt (LEO SOUTH GA)

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

I am not following you. You have a Redfield Oympic rear. What rear sight are you looking for? Remove clip slot for rear BASE for a scope?

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

fngmike,

For some reason I have tried to order the rear base like (4) times even using the serial number but to NO avail.... For some reason the bases are too narrow or the holes DONT match up... its the strangest thing...

I have tried ONLY to order 2 piece bases JUST due to the rifle being factory clip slotted under the attachment...

I was THINKING of using a single type ring mount JUST for the front mount... I have seen some GG&G type mounts that are 30mm rings setups that would work.. I THINK.....

Hope this kind a clears it..

I want something QUICK DETACH as I dont want to leave the scope on there the whole time.

Matt.

 

[diver9]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

wow sweet rifle! im jealous

 

[dieselten]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

pre war model 70's were never drilled on the rear bridge from the factory. The hole(s) were added by someone else. No telling what spacing they used. It is trial and error to find something that will work. If there is only 1 hole in the rear bridge it is probably for a one piece redfield base. You will have to remove that silly front base and install the redfield.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

Leopold make quick release 30 mm rings (well sorta) that will fit the Weaver style bases. I just put some on my wife's 243 Model 70.

I don't think you want the One Piece base, that rifle was designed to use stripper clips. It's an "across the course gun" for high power, requiring loading for rapid fire strings.

The set up you have was designed for Weaver type rings.

The scope was normally used for 1000 yard matches where you single loaded.

The rear base is the same as the one I put on one of my model 70s.

Don't get hung up on the ideal you have to have a one piece mount. Weaver bases have been used on target rifles for a long time and they still work today. Take off the rear sight, put on the scope and you're good to go.

I built this Model 70 in the early 80s for 1000 yard shooting. Its a 300 WM, but I still had to use both scope and iron sights.

The rifle was used in Any Rifle/Any Sights matches using a Weaver T-10, and Any Rifle/Iron Sights using the Olympic sights.
(Except for the front sight).

Putting on and taking off the scope or sights didn't change the zero much, You never noticed any change because you add windage for the existing conditions which were never what they were for your ending corrections for the last match.

This rifle still shoots today.

IMHO I would leave the rifle as is, get some Weaver style rings that will fit the existing bases. I bet you'll find it works just great.

Get a couple stripper clips and hit a couple HP matches. You'll be empressed.

Any here is the set up on my Model 70.

 

[jaycoux]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

This may be off base slightly, but Richard Near makes a mount that will fit on there. You would have to take the base off though. His is called alphahunter. If you go to his website you will see the alphahunter on a few weatherby rifles. He also cuts this for M70. It is a single piece mount. Take a look.

j

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

Kraig,

PM in bound.

Thanks
Matt.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

NOW.. I see that my description is a little confusing.

*Under the stripper clip attachment my action is FACTORY clip slotted.

I am trying to add a REAR base in order to attached a QUICK DETACH scope/ring setup... I am wanting to use a scope for range load test... and goofing off occassionally.

THE PROBLEM:
The rear bases that I have ordered are either the WRONG hole pattern... OR the entire rear base itself is to narrow and wont sit on the action reciever correctly.

The front is sitting just fine as the picture shows.

ONLY the rear is the issue... Obviously the front of the reciever and front base sit up higher soo the rear has to be a "THICKER" base to level it out. But as mentioned the bases when ordered for the rear EVEN by going by serial number ranges on MIDWAY USA still comes in a tad too narrow for the reciever.


Hope that kinda clears it up.

Matt.

 

[jaycoux]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

Didn't the pre-64 M70 have two different hole configurations based on the year it was made? Maybe that is the issue with the base that you bought.

j

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

Jaycoux,

I do believe your right... This one if you can tell from the picture is also a Long Action pre 64 (308).

I am going to try and give it another shot this week...

I am looking on Midway USA now to try and find the right one.

Matt.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

Well.... the 5th time is a charm...


I JUST ordered a NEW set.

2 Piece Base Set - WEAVER 402 (Front) and 49A (REAR)

*It showed that it was for DIFFERENT hole patterns so... this HOPEFULLY will work.

Matt.

 

[whitetailnut]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

Years ago I bought a 30-06 post 64 target rifle. I ran into the same issues as you.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ONLY the rear is the issue... Obviously the front of the reciever and front base sit up higher soo the rear has to be a "THICKER" base to level it out. But as mentioned the bases when ordered for the rear EVEN by going by serial number ranges on MIDWAY USA still comes in a tad too narrow for the reciever.</div></div>

My rifle was built in 1965 and I was having a hell of a time finding a base for the rifle. I have a good friend who owns a gun store and he basically told me to go in the back and try what he had till I found one that would work! Any ways this is what I ended up with:

Who ever drill/tapped your rifle may have used one of these. It's a 1 piece base with 1 hole at the rear.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

bd1023,

That SAME description is on the set I JUST ordered.

There was a description that stated it was for DIFFERENT HOLE PATTERNS. I figured that its due to the rear base holes having a different seperated measurement than the front base holes.

I think this set will work..

IF NOT... well I have a buddy VERY close that builds and has a CNC.... sooo he will be making me a set.

With the wasted orders I have already done, I could have had him do a few set for me

Its not even like their expensive... I think a set runs around $15 but that and the damn shipping 4 times over adds up.

Good thing is that IF I EVERY get another Winchester M70 I will have a shit ton of basese to choose from

Matt.

 

[whitetailnut]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mm128</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bd1023,

That SAME description is on the set I JUST ordered.

Matt. </div></div>

If its says that, then I believe you're right. Accoring to this:
http://oldguns.net/sn_php/windateslookup.php?file=winxx70.dat

66,350 was made in 1947, but who knows how accurate it is.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

bd1023,

Thanks and my thoughts exactly... I am NOT sure that the serial number recordings are dead on...

My order is in bound and should be here by Friday... Sooo time will tell.

Seems soo strange that there are soo many different hole patterns on the recievers... Seems they would want to make it easier and just to a L/A and a S/A pattern.

Ohh well... I will repost w/ pics as soon as the bases arrive.

 

[stealthgoat]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

I went through this several times too.
As dieselten noted, pre-war era the rear bridge was not factory drilled & tapped.
Somebody did this years later, and the hole patterns varied.
I was able to order a pre-war base from US optics, and they helped me with getting base holes correct for my receiver hole location.

Your rifle should be a great shooter!

 

[boltstop]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mm128</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well.... the 5th time is a charm...


I JUST ordered a NEW set.

2 Piece Base Set - WEAVER 402 (Front) and 49A (REAR)

*It showed that it was for DIFFERENT hole patterns so... this HOPEFULLY will work.

Matt.</div></div>

If the holes don't match, and you can get this done by moving an area of the mount over the holes that will offer a clear path for a hole and fastener, you should drill the mount - not drill and tap more holes in the receiver. Those holes are hard to cut, and the area will likely need to be re-hardened. The process is a PITA.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

Boltstop,

I am definately NOT drilling the reciever. Mine was drilled from the factory as far as I know.

The bases SHOULD be here tomorrow and as long as the rear fits in the grooves (width wise) I can always drill the hole in the base IF they DONT match up.

But according to the picture I was sent, it appears that this set should work.

I will update with pics and part #'s when they come in. Maybe down the road this will help someone else.

Matt.

 

[n64atlas]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

You do know they didn't make a .308 in the 1940's don't you.
The round wasn't developed till mid 1950

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

n64atlas,

Very aware...many of the target versions were REBARRELED at the factory or by others into .308.

Thats the reason that the olders one were LONG action.

Most likely... down the line in the beginning this one was a 30-06..

OR... the numbering system is NOT up to date as mentioned earlier acocrding to the serial number ranges.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

I don't believe (I may be wrong) that Winchester made short actions Model 70s until late in the game.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: 1940's Winchester M70 (308)

REAR BASE UPDATE:

The rear base came in and was a WEAVER: 49A in aluminum.

It also would NOT fit due to the base being too wide to fit on the reciever.

Sooo I dremeled the edges of the base to get it to fit and it seemed to work...

All in all I finally figured that this rifle is designed as a IRON SIGHT weapon and with SEVERAL other scoped .308's there was NO need to put a scope on it and ruin the look.

Soo after about $100 in wasted orders for bases, I am going to leave it with IRON sights ONLY.

Thank you all for your help and guidance.

Matt.