1st Post, 1st Accuracy Oriented (Recce-ish) Build

[JS8588]

So, this is my first post here. Longtime reader. Coronacation finally got me motivated enough to sign up for an account & as I'm sure it is for a lot of you, this quarantine is proving pretty expensive.

I'm putting together a Recce-ish build. Some of the parts I have, some I don't yet, some are being shipped as I write this.

Wanted to see if there were any glaring errors I'm making in parts selection. You all know a lot more than I do.

Upper:
San Tan Pillar Billet Upper
Lantac Enhanced BCG (The TiN on top of Nitride one that appears to be a Midway USA exclusive)
Lothar Walther Barrel (this one https://www.lothar-walther.com/1409...wylde-polygon-mud-1/2-28-unef-2a-l-16.00?c=24)
CMT Combat Flash Compensator
V7 ionbond coated Titanium Gas Block
Radian Raptor SD-SL Charging Handle
Odin Works 15.5 Inch Ragna Handguard
Warne XSkel 30mm QD Scope Mount
Leupold VX-5HD 3-15x44 Scope
Magpul Pro BUIS

Lower
POF P415 Stripped Ambi Lower (got the shipping notice this evening)
Wilson Combat TTU M2
Radian Talon 45° ambi safety
Lancer EFX A1 Stock
BAD DLC coated Titanium takedown/pivot pins
V7 ionbond coated Titanium mag catch
Tubbs Flatwire Buffer Spring
White Oak Armament Rifle Length RE
Jones Arms EAB Buffer
Grip- TBD. Not terribly important to the overall result. Might use a Hexmag grip I have in the parts bin.

I know someone is going to suggest an adjustable gas block. I'm not going that route for the same reason I avoid adjustable triggers. They just seem to me like an invitation for Murphy. I'm sure they're great, but not my thing.

I already ordered the handguard but I do have concerns about it being sturdy enough should I put a bipod on it in the future. I basically have the entire upper in hand or ordered already (with the exception of the scope & mount). I'll install it, see how I feel about it, & go from there. I wanted to go lightweight because of the beefy barrel profile, but may have gone too skeletonized with the Ragna.

Yes, I know a few of my chosen parts (the buffer, titanium takedown pins, titanium gas block...) are "gilding the lily" & probably unnecessarily expensive.

So, gentlemen, as the late Ed Koch said, How'm I doin'?

I'm not chasing .4 inch groups at 100 yards. I don't shoot that well & I don't hand load, but MOA or better with match grade off the shelf ammo would make me happy. Sound like I'm going down the right path?

Thank you in advance for your guidance & I hope you're all staying safe.

 

[ShooterwithNoName]

Welcome to the hide!

Sounds like a cool build no doubt. I don't have any experience with the Ragna HG... Hopefully someone will chime in who does.

Lothar Walther barrels are supposed to be pretty good shooters. I've never owned one but they have a pretty good rep, I'm a fan of the 1:8 twist.

Let us know how it shoots...

 

[Jsp556]

Larue’s accuracy reputation was built around LW barrels. I have a 16” melonited LW barrel that shoots well.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

To be brutally honest I wouldn't have picked half the stuff you did but it's your build. I don't disagree with your stance on the adjustable gas block and adjustable triggers, I've seen them fail at the most inopportune times but that was mostly due to set up errors. Some shooters would tune the gas block to the ragged edge of reliability to get the rifle to shoot "softer" but that was basically only when the rifle was clean, add in carbon, dirt, and gunk and they're out there trying to open up the gas port.

I can tell you from experience that the one time I used a super light handguard on a recce build to try to save some weight I ended up regretting it, in fact the handguard failed, which may have been my saving grace. The company did me a solid and replaced it with the aluminum version, after which I haven't had any issues whatsoever and the weight difference has been hardly noticeable. My advice is to use caution when you may be compromising durability and rigidity for relatively little gains in weight savings.

Why that model Leupold?

With regards to the grip, I disagree that it's not terribly important to the overall results, the grip is your connection to the rifle so it should be comfortable and ergonomic. In my experience grips that mimic the angle of the A2 grip are too uncomfortable and induce joint pain when shooting in the prone and most other positions too. Eventually, it starts to erode my fundamentals because I'm focusing more on the discomfort and my consistency and accuracy suffers. That's just my experience but I opt for pistol grips with a steeper angle like the Magpul K2, Ergo Deluxe Grip, BCM Gunfighter, etc...to alleviate those issues as they put my wrist at a more natural angle.

 

[PBWalsh]

The Warne mount will most likely not clear the rear sight. I had to put mine on a Leupold Mk1 riser to clear my Magpul Pro. You need something at least 1.5” in height, or get a riser. The Mk1 riser will add 3oz though.

Geissele and KAC handguards are solid options to retain zero on BUIS and optics. My Mk4 Geissele is a bit heavy, but it doesn’t move. Vltor uppers have a good reputation of holding everything solid when loading a bipod. I’m sure the San Tan ones are nice too, @MSTN uses their sets on everything, he should know.

As you can see in the picture, the Warne mount plus riser. It works, but it’ll hopefully be replaced by a 1.57” NF 20moa Unimount or a Scalarworks 1.93”.

 

[JS8588]

To be brutally honest I wouldn't have picked half the stuff you did but it's your build.

That's why I posted here. I'm just old enough to realize I don't know everything.

I can tell you from experience that the one time I used a super light handguard on a recce build to try to save some weight I ended up regretting it, in fact the handguard failed, which may have been my saving grace. The company did me a solid and replaced it with the aluminum version, after which I haven't had any issues whatsoever and the weight difference has been hardly noticeable. My advice is to use caution when you may be compromising durability and rigidity for relatively little gains in weight savings.

Yeah, I paid a little under $120 shipped for it. Odin Works makes good stuff but this may be the wrong tool for the job at hand. I'll try it out & go from there.

Why that model Leupold?

Best glass I can comfortably afford. I like the weight & reticle options. I'd really prefer to have a VX-6HD 2-12 but I can't (in my mind) justify the extra ~$400 to get that 1x decrease on the lower end & the cost for the 2-10 5HD is virtually the same while costing me the extra 5x on the upper end which will make it more enjoyable (for me) to use at the range. The likelyhood that I'll ever be operating operationally is slim to none as I'm a suburban mattress store manager (with a wife who is very supportive of my hobby).

With regards to the grip, I disagree that it's not terribly important to the overall results, the grip is your connection to the rifle so it should be comfortable and ergonomic. In my experience grips that mimic the angle of the A2 grip are too uncomfortable and induce joint pain when shooting in the prone and most other positions too. Eventually, it starts to erode my fundamentals because I'm focusing more on the discomfort and my consistency and accuracy suffers. That's just my experience but I opt for pistol grips with a steeper angle like the Magpul K2, Ergo Deluxe Grip, BCM Gunfighter, etc...to alleviate those issues as they put my wrist at a more natural angle.

Oh I wouldn't go with anything I don't find comfortable. It's just a TBD at the moment.

The Warne mount will most likely not clear the rear sight. I had to put mine on a Leupold Mk1 riser to clear my Magpul Pro. You need something at least 1.5” in height, or get a riser. The Mk1 riser will add 3oz though.

Good to know. I always do a "dry fit" of all the parts together before final assembly. If the Warne mount doesn't work, there's always another rifle I can put it on.

Geissele and KAC handguards are solid options to retain zero on BUIS and optics. My Mk4 Geissele is a bit heavy, but it doesn’t move. Vltor uppers have a good reputation of holding everything solid when loading a bipod. I’m sure the San Tan ones are nice too, @MSTN uses their sets on everything, he should know.

Geissele is located about a 45 minute drive from home. He makes good stuff. I have it in my head that something with a steel barrel nut will be better for accuracy. That's probably not the case, but once you have an idea nagging at you... Anyway, as I said above, I'll see how the Ragna suits me & go from there. Not really interested in any of the KAC handguards for this or any other build I'd put together. I have no doubt they're quality, they're just not what I'm looking for.

The barrel didn't quite need a thermal fit (just needed a bit of pushing & shoving) to be installed in the San Tan upper, but I'd definitely need to heat up the extension to get it out now.

 

[MontanaMan]

Geissele is located about a 45 minute drive from home. He makes good stuff. I have it in my head that something with a steel barrel nut will be better for accuracy. That's probably not the case,

You're right, that's not the case.

The length & surface area of the barrel nut is much more important, along with the stiffness of the rail itself & that Odin rail is not a very rigid handguard.

Geiselle, ALG, SLR & WOA handguards are all much better choices for rigidity, both due to the barrel nut & the rigidity of the rail.

And by far & away, the barrel profile has the most effect on the weight of the rifle, almost always outweighing the impact of the rail weight by a significant margin. With today's barrels you don't need a heavy recce profile to have an accurate barrel unless you just want a recce barrel.

JMHO

Otherwise, parts list is fine............quality parts & the only one you have to please is yourself....................not my choice on many items, but nothing wrong with it, especially the hugely overpriced BCG with really brings nothing to the table as far as any real enhanced performance goes, but if it makes ya feel good, you only have to please yourself.

MM

 

[RyanScott]

The URX4 is hard to beat. And it’s light so you can add weight to the barrel.

 

[MontanaMan]

Yes, they are but a bit of a PITA to install compared to many others.

MM

 

[RyanScott]

Installing them is easy. Installing a gas block under them is a bitch. I wish they would make a true rifle length URX4 so the gas block is exposed.

 

[The DFC]

Get the best barrel you can afford.

 

[RyanScott]

That’s a good deal. I bought seven DD MK18 uppers well used with the DD Lite from a shops parts box. Paid $250 each, sent the three with broken weld puddles back to DD for repair and sold them all for $500 each.

 

[RyanScott]

Get the best barrel you can afford.

This. And get the longest gas system that will run. Not sure it helps with accuracy but it’s good for longevity and easier to shoot.

 

[JS8588]

Get the best barrel you can afford.

I bought the barrel 8 months ago. Corona Quarantine (and the accompanying TrumpBux) just was the motivation to get moving on the build.

And get the longest gas system that will run. Not sure it helps with accuracy but it’s good for longevity and easier to shoot.

Like adjustable gas blocks & triggers, this is something I personally do not do. I only ever stock & shoot brass cased, new production ammo, but if the situation ever arises where we civvies need to practice our 2nd Amendment rights for the purpose originally intended, I like being confident my firearms will run any ammo that might be at hand. The longest gas system that will shoot mil spec m855 might not reliably cycle Winchester white box 223.

 

[The DFC]

Looks like a nice build. Keep us updated-I'm curious to see accuracy.

 

[JS8588]

Looks like a nice build. Keep us updated-I'm curious to see accuracy.

May not get to completion & testing until the fall (all ranges are closed in PA), but I'll definitely update as things progress.

I really appreciate the input I'm getting here. I may not take every piece of advice, but I'll definitely take everything into consideration.

You gentlemen are professionals. I'm just an enthusiast.

 

[-Time-]

Nothing wrong with your parts list. V7 is good stuff, and I’ve been known to splurge on some unnecessarily expensive parts because I can.

I have a preference toward the LaRue MBT triggers, replaced my geisseles with them. (and they’re a steal at $80). I also have nothing but great things to say about LaRue stealth barrels on my 18” recce, it’s a 1/2moa barrel with a better shooter than I. I’m sure you’ve already seen them but V7 makes a bomb ass Ambi selector, 90° or 45° in one unit

Magpul k2 is my recommendation for grip, the more vertical angle is way more comfortable in all shooting positions for me. With that being said most of this stuff is personal preference and you might just have to experiment some to find what works for you.

If you ever intend to run a suppressor I would go with an adjustable gas block. The SLR units are extremely reliable and simple.

+1 on the guys that recommend the longest gas system you can get as well. It’ll make a big difference in smoother shooting.

Others have addressed the handguard thing, plenty of other options if you find it has too much flex. I’ve got an SLR ion series on an AR10, and a urx 3.1 on my Recce, both are very sturdy.

Heres a pic of my recce style rifle for inspiration. 2-10/3-15 scopes are the perfect compliment in capability and weight imo.

ETA: only other thing I can think of is you may find that the short lever raptor is hard to get ahold of depending on where you end up putting your scope for proper eye relief, but YMMV

 

[RyanScott]

If you gas it for hot ammo unsuppressed it will run anything suppressed.

 

[JS8588]

Couple guys on this thread have reccomend SLR handguards now.

Here's a point where my inexperience may be showing.

Conceptually, SLR rails seem perfect. Pic rail where you need it, enlightened where you don't. Available in (almost) any length you may desire.

Only thing I don't quite trust is they index/have their anti-rotation piece on the gas tube. That seems like it's bound to possibly have in impact on accuracy & durability.

What am I missing?

 

[-Time-]

Couple guys on this thread have reccomend SLR handguards now.

Here's a point where my inexperience may be showing.

Conceptually, SLR rails seem perfect. Pic rail where you need it, enlightened where you don't. Available in (almost) any length you may desire.

Only thing I don't quite trust is they index/have their anti-rotation piece on the gas tube. That seems like it's bound to possibly have in impact on accuracy & durability.

What am I missing?

The bcg/upper touches the gas tube already, I don’t think there’s any noticeable impact on accuracy. The little anti-rotation piece is clearanced to not really impart any force on the gas tube anyways.

Really all of the anti rotation is done with the clamps at the bottom. I’ve beaten the ar10 up quite a bit hunting and shooting PRS, and I’ve used them on solos and ions on 4 different carbines, never had one rotate. To actually affect function not only would you have to hit the handguard so hard you overcome the clamp and spin it, but you’d then have to crush the gas tube too. Any force that hard is wrecking more than handguard alignment. As a matter of fact the only handguard I’ve ever had rotate on me was an improperly machined geissele mk14.

The helix series may be a little scalped for your purposes, I haven’t gotten my hands on one yet, but the ion and solo series are rock solid.

If there’s a length/rail combo/whatever you’re looking for and they don’t have, shoot them an email. Todd and crew are super cool guys, they’ve run off a custom length solo intrepid and stuff for me before.

 

[IronsKeeper]

My two "completed" builds have quality rails on them. One is a Geissele Mk13, solid when fully installed, and I'm not fond of taking it off. To me, that's a good thing- I trust that type of rail to stay put.

The other has a BCM QRF quad. I will never ever remove it. I'll sell the upper or the whole gun before I do. Putting that thing on was way too much stress (honestly this is addressed in the directions that I should have read from the start, but anyway)- BUT. I know that rail isn't going anywhere without destroying my entire gun. The locking piece was kind of pointless- the fit is so tight I almost didn't take the rail off to put that alignment piece on (again, should have read the direction first ? ). It's amazing, though.

My buddy has a BCM MCMR and has not rebarreled in part because he remembers what it was like trying to put that thing on (he's at ~6000 rounds and groups are widening). Same barrel nut and locking system. He's never adjusted it or had any issue- he has done stupid things to that rifle and rail just to see if it would break, sometimes unintentionally. No issues.

They are decently light too. If you want another rock solid option, the MCMR is worth looking at for MLOK.

 

[JS8588]

Got the Ragna in. It's well made. The barrel nut is much shorter than ideal, but there is plenty of clearance for the gas block & I don't expect enough flex for it to impact accuracy. I wouldn't use it on an "irons only" build, but I'm going to give it a try. If I find I'm having accuracy issues, it will be the first part swapped out.

 

[MontanaMan]

Got the Ragna in. It's well made. The barrel nut is much shorter than ideal, but there is plenty of clearance for the gas block & I don't expect enough flex for it to impact accuracy. I wouldn't use it on an "irons only" build, but I'm going to give it a try. If I find I'm having accuracy issues, it will be the first part swapped out.

Just depends on how you use it as to how much it will flex...................& it will flex.

Load it hard on a bipod & it will surely flex.

Except for the really flimsy rails that you can twist or bend in your hands, it's all about the length of the barrel nut & having enough surface area for the rail to hold onto & how the rail is attached to the nut.

A very short nut will allow more flex than a longer nut, no matter how hard it is to get the rail onto the nut or how tight it fits.

MM

 

[JS8588]

More parts inbound but this is how it's looking so far.

 

[JS8588]

Another little update on the Ragna handguard. Got the V7 Gas Block in, put it on the barrel, just to test clearance and there is plenty. The thickness of the San Tan billet upper the stout barrel profile, & the amount of daylight between the gas block & the handguard, I would not expect any accuracy issues to arise with the rail being the cause. Still wouldn't use it on an irons only build, but for this purpose it should be good to go.

Lancer discontinued the EFX-A1 stock (pity, great cheek weld & the weight would have balanced out the barrel nicely) so I'm putting a Rock River Arms A2 Operator Fixed Stock on it.

Swapped out the Ergo grip for a Blackhawk Knoxx because I like the way it looks better. Super important, I know

Trigger is ordered. Should have some build progress pics within the next week or thereabouts.

 

[JS8588]

Got the TTU in and installed it. Gotta say, I'm a little underwhelmed. The break is fantastic and so is the reset, but the first stage is...kind of spongy. It's not awful, just would have expected smoother. I'm also surprised how short the first stage is. It's every bit as short as my Triggertechs, just not nearly as smooth. I'm sure with use it will polish out.