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2-10 scopes in FFP
- Thread starter Proxemus
- Start date
There are very few scopes in this niche, used to be a lot more but seems like no one bought them so many companies discontinued them.
The Trijcicon Credo is the newest one on the market and the most up to date (has a tree reticle.
The other option is the new Atlon Helos 2-12x42, theres a few reviews out about it but as it's a fairly cheap scope (and made in China) it hasn't caught the attention of many of the usual review guys on here, although @koshkin has said he plans to review one.
There is the USO 1.8-10 but it seems as though it tunnels so bad it's more like a 4-10 so see no reason why one would buy it.
Otherwise the PST Gen 2 2-10 as you said is pretty heavy but has a good FOV, not keen on the reticle though, althought it does the job.
The Gen 1 PST is a pretty nice little scope and a lot lighter weight than the Gen 2 (18.7oz), the reticle is perfectly sized for the magnification range (actually usable on 2.5x yet not too thick at 10x, and is perfectly size from around 3-8x where I use mine a lot) and the illumination is perfectly set up so it's usable at night to help see the thin reticle.
I have a PST Gen 1 and absolutely love it, theres a few thing's I'd change if I could but for the most part it is perfect for my intended use.
Finding one for sale is likely going to be the hardest part as they were long discontinued.
The Trijcicon Credo is the newest one on the market and the most up to date (has a tree reticle.
The other option is the new Atlon Helos 2-12x42, theres a few reviews out about it but as it's a fairly cheap scope (and made in China) it hasn't caught the attention of many of the usual review guys on here, although @koshkin has said he plans to review one.
There is the USO 1.8-10 but it seems as though it tunnels so bad it's more like a 4-10 so see no reason why one would buy it.
Otherwise the PST Gen 2 2-10 as you said is pretty heavy but has a good FOV, not keen on the reticle though, althought it does the job.
The Gen 1 PST is a pretty nice little scope and a lot lighter weight than the Gen 2 (18.7oz), the reticle is perfectly sized for the magnification range (actually usable on 2.5x yet not too thick at 10x, and is perfectly size from around 3-8x where I use mine a lot) and the illumination is perfectly set up so it's usable at night to help see the thin reticle.
I have a PST Gen 1 and absolutely love it, theres a few thing's I'd change if I could but for the most part it is perfect for my intended use.
Finding one for sale is likely going to be the hardest part as they were long discontinued.
The lightweight 2.5-10x32ish w/ good glass and reticle choices out there are fairly slim. As mentioned above, the gen 1 Vortex PST 2.5-10x32 is a solid choice unless you want a Christmas tree reticle. I eliminated the gen 2 as an option the second I saw the weight specs when it came out a few years ago. Not sure if you are a mil or MOA guy (I'm a MOA weirdo), but my favorite optic along these lines is the Vortex HS LR 2.5-10x32 w/ XLR MOA reticle. It checks all the boxes for me in that weight category. I hang a tube-mounted micro dot off at the 1:30 position for close or fast shooting. Cabelas blew them out five or six years ago so I bought one then realized how wonderful they are right AFTER they sold out. I've been picking them up used here and there ever since. I'm very curious to try the new LHT 4.5-22, though.
Weaver 2-10x36 tactical. They have been discounted for a while, so they are getting hard to find. The Trijicon 2-10x36 is the same design with some different features. 3-12 LRHS or LRTS is good but kind of hard to find also.
I went looking for this, but it seems to have been discontinued... Purged from Eotech's and only showing up at a few retailers. This makes sense why they were selling for ~$700 earlier this year.
The Credo is nice. It would be my choice if I didn't love my Gen1 PST 2.5-10. Like supercorndogs mentioned, the 3-12 LRHS/LRTS are super nice if you can find them. Had a LRHSi and one of the 4.5-18. Sold them both a while back and have regretted it since.
The Weaver is something like 23oz. I don't know if people are talking about the 2-10 Credo being 27 ounces, but the Weaver is not that heavy.
Why not 1-10x FFP. Athlon has two FFP 1-10x reticles, one is MIL and one is MOA. They just hit the streets recently and can be found for $950. For less than that you can get the Atibal 1-10x and Primary Arms has a GLX 1-10x but it has been delayed but supposed to be less than $1,000. Last news I read said it will be Q1 2022. Athlon FOV is 117' but is 26.9oz. The PA FOV is only 104' but weighs 23.3oz.
Sorry I'm late 
I'm "all in" on the 2-10-ish magnification range for DMR-ish sorts of rifles ... I have two mk12-ish and am building two mk11/m110-ish.
I really roll the 2-10 up to my general classification of this scope which is the 3-9x ... and would expect most of the candidates to be SFP.
On my mk12's now I have
L&S mk4 2.5-8x TMR
NF NXS 2.5-10x Mil-R
(also both of these were $1,400-ish so a little above OP's $1k upper boundary, which interestingly is my upper boundary as well)
The L&S is considerably lighter and shorter also and gets the job done, which includes being able to get 1st rd hits on 12" steel out to 700m day/night/hot/cold/rain/shine in wind up to 25 MPH.
Both are SFP ... and that's on purpose. For me the DMR-ish function includes what some call the "patrol rifle" function ... and to me that means the ability to make quick shots while on the move. I don't mean literally shooting while walking BUT if you are walking and see something that needs to be shot then you should be able to pull up quickly and go bang quickly with no fiddling around.
I used to have different scopes on the mk12s and also had offset RMRs on them. The RMRs could be used for the patrol rifle function, but added more parts and more weight. The SFPs enable the scopes themselves to support quick shots and the RMRs are being redeployed to the glocks.
I also have:
Vortex pst/g2 2-10x EBC4
Trijicon Credo 2-10x Mil-Tree
And both of those are FFP.
The VO is pretty heavy. And it tunnels has you change the magnification from 3x to 2x, meaning the circle you see through the scope gets smaller.
The Trijicon reticle is nice at full power but at lower power, even with the Illum on max setting, its still slightly too dim IMHO for outdoor use in bright sun for the patrol rifle function - too hard to instantly see the reticle for quick shots.
It looks GREAT in the house - this is low power
But again out in the yard in bright sun, its not so easy to see it, which is disappointing
==
I sold another mk12 to a neighbor and put an L&S v3 3-9x TMR SFP on it and that one is very similar to the mk4 2.5-8x TMR on my mk12 and with the firedot illum only ran about $400. I'd definitely recommend that critter.
One of the plusses of the 3-9x versus the lilteral 2-10x is shooting on lowest power, you can still use the reticle for holding, they just have triple value. So 1 mil = 3 mils and .... 0.5 mils equals 1.5 mils etc. I'd shoot some "calibration" to make sure, but I done this before on a mk4 3.5-10x and the 3 times multipler was dead on. That's because the 3.5-10x is really 3.333 to 9.9999 ....
And with the lilteral 2-10x you're looking at a 5 times multiplier and that's tougher to use ... like
1 mil = 5 mils or 0.5 mils equal 2.5 mils (low power).
So, again, this is actually a plus for the 3-9x power range!
==
Mk12 with L&S Mk4 2.5-8x tmr (16 oz)
I'm "all in" on the 2-10-ish magnification range for DMR-ish sorts of rifles ... I have two mk12-ish and am building two mk11/m110-ish.
I really roll the 2-10 up to my general classification of this scope which is the 3-9x ... and would expect most of the candidates to be SFP.
On my mk12's now I have
L&S mk4 2.5-8x TMR
NF NXS 2.5-10x Mil-R
(also both of these were $1,400-ish so a little above OP's $1k upper boundary, which interestingly is my upper boundary as well)
The L&S is considerably lighter and shorter also and gets the job done, which includes being able to get 1st rd hits on 12" steel out to 700m day/night/hot/cold/rain/shine in wind up to 25 MPH.
Both are SFP ... and that's on purpose. For me the DMR-ish function includes what some call the "patrol rifle" function ... and to me that means the ability to make quick shots while on the move. I don't mean literally shooting while walking BUT if you are walking and see something that needs to be shot then you should be able to pull up quickly and go bang quickly with no fiddling around.
I used to have different scopes on the mk12s and also had offset RMRs on them. The RMRs could be used for the patrol rifle function, but added more parts and more weight. The SFPs enable the scopes themselves to support quick shots and the RMRs are being redeployed to the glocks.
I also have:
Vortex pst/g2 2-10x EBC4
Trijicon Credo 2-10x Mil-Tree
And both of those are FFP.
The VO is pretty heavy. And it tunnels has you change the magnification from 3x to 2x, meaning the circle you see through the scope gets smaller.
The Trijicon reticle is nice at full power but at lower power, even with the Illum on max setting, its still slightly too dim IMHO for outdoor use in bright sun for the patrol rifle function - too hard to instantly see the reticle for quick shots.
It looks GREAT in the house - this is low power
But again out in the yard in bright sun, its not so easy to see it, which is disappointing
==
I sold another mk12 to a neighbor and put an L&S v3 3-9x TMR SFP on it and that one is very similar to the mk4 2.5-8x TMR on my mk12 and with the firedot illum only ran about $400. I'd definitely recommend that critter.
One of the plusses of the 3-9x versus the lilteral 2-10x is shooting on lowest power, you can still use the reticle for holding, they just have triple value. So 1 mil = 3 mils and .... 0.5 mils equals 1.5 mils etc. I'd shoot some "calibration" to make sure, but I done this before on a mk4 3.5-10x and the 3 times multipler was dead on. That's because the 3.5-10x is really 3.333 to 9.9999 ....
And with the lilteral 2-10x you're looking at a 5 times multiplier and that's tougher to use ... like
1 mil = 5 mils or 0.5 mils equal 2.5 mils (low power).
So, again, this is actually a plus for the 3-9x power range!
==
Mk12 with L&S Mk4 2.5-8x tmr (16 oz)
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Surly I am missing something. But I really want to love the Vortex Gen2 Viper 2x10. The only thing I don’t get is why you would want a LPVO in FFP? I think FFP LPVO optics are not practical. If you are shooting long enough distances to be using holdover are you not maxed out on magnification on a LPVO? FFP reticles turn into a blurred mess when powered down.
If lighting isn’t great, you might need to turn down the zoom to brighten things up. You might also need to widen FOV to look for movers, etc.
It’s not necessarily that you need the reticle to be usable as anything but a red dot at 1x, but with a 1-10 you might very well be operating at 6-8x at a long enough distance that you need to compensate for drop/wind accurately.
Because I just do. I prefer FFP and will take it, even in an LPVO, over SFP. Yes I have used both in a 1-6, still prefer FFP.
In a 2-10, I definitely want FFP.
FFP everything actually.
I bought the Burris 2-10x42 veracity in ffp for my 22lr. And I couldn't ask for more. Tried the vortex and wasn't that happy w it.
I recently bought my second Athlon Helos G2 DMR 2-12x42 and one Helos G2 1-10. The 2-12 is so much nicer because of the adjustable parallax. Love the mil DMR reticle and most everything about the scope. It could be a tad lighter and the illume is almost daylight bright, both I can deal with for what this scope offers. It's one of my favorite scopes.
I too think the 1-(8-10) have killed off the 2-10s. Granted, people looking at a 1-8/10 are in somways a different market than the 2-10- but a lot of 2-10 buyer would have proffered a 1-10 if they could have gotten it. The SPR usage Or 308AR rifles. If the reticle is designed right, and it is lit brightly enough, it can work as an FFP at 1x and at 8-10x.
I'm looking at the March 1-10s and the VO 1-10. The only major downside I can see is cost. Those suquers are well above the $1k line.
The downside of some of the lower cost 3-9x is they come up short on elevation turret travel, like the Tijicon Accupoints and Credos, which I'm also looking at. If I want to dial out to 700m for a mk12-ish or 800m for a mk11-ish that needs to be considered as well. I've thought about dialing to 500m and then holding the rest ... i.e. using a hybrid process ... and I've done that a few times in the past in some circumstances, but I don't think its ideal. I also believe in simple processes, complex processes can break down in the heat of the moment if you don't train the sh^t out of them.
Life is full of trade-offs
The downside of some of the lower cost 3-9x is they come up short on elevation turret travel, like the Tijicon Accupoints and Credos, which I'm also looking at. If I want to dial out to 700m for a mk12-ish or 800m for a mk11-ish that needs to be considered as well. I've thought about dialing to 500m and then holding the rest ... i.e. using a hybrid process ... and I've done that a few times in the past in some circumstances, but I don't think its ideal. I also believe in simple processes, complex processes can break down in the heat of the moment if you don't train the sh^t out of them.
Life is full of trade-offs
I even emailed them about it. Hope all the time they come out with a 2.5-10x32 FFP MIL-R.
P.M. Sent. I'm really trying to decide between these two. Just wandering what you like about the Burris in particular over the Vortex.
That Vortex Warranty imo, is worth a lot in itself. Thanks
And, anyone else wants to let me knkw which they like better between the Vortex and Burris, please, I'm all
's
I have both the Burris veracity 2-10 FFP and the Athlon Helos g2 2-12 FFP. They both have their nice but they’re fantastic in their own way. The Burris is in a ultra light coyote gun in 204 ruger for 0-400 yards and the Helos is on a dedicated subsonic SBR 300BLK also for long range subsonic in the 0-400yards range. I was using 19.5 mils of elevation and transitioning between 400-300-200 and 100 and the tracking was perfect so I would absolutely trust it on a long range rimfire.
Kind of a thread resurrection going on here--before yesterday the last reply was Oct 2021.
But to jump on the bandwagon, I'm using a 3-12 USO TS-12X that I picked up (slightly used) for $350. OpticsPlanet has them for around $600. FFP, Christmas tree ret, not illuminated. Easy to zero and locking turrets, but no zero stop. Parallax down to 10 yards at full magnification.
Its more expensive than the Vortex Diamondback Tactical 4-16 that I'm using on my B14R but it's considerably smaller, lighter, and to my 52 y/o eyes, better glass. I haven't heard much about the TS-12x but I'm glad I gave it a try--it sits nicely on my 10/22 and so far it's working out well.
But to jump on the bandwagon, I'm using a 3-12 USO TS-12X that I picked up (slightly used) for $350. OpticsPlanet has them for around $600. FFP, Christmas tree ret, not illuminated. Easy to zero and locking turrets, but no zero stop. Parallax down to 10 yards at full magnification.
Its more expensive than the Vortex Diamondback Tactical 4-16 that I'm using on my B14R but it's considerably smaller, lighter, and to my 52 y/o eyes, better glass. I haven't heard much about the TS-12x but I'm glad I gave it a try--it sits nicely on my 10/22 and so far it's working out well.
Really hard to tell.
At 10x the image is ever so slightly crisper on the Burris than the on the Athlon, it’s a little bit more noticeable on the edge of the glass. But at comes at the cost of less FOV on the Burris than the Athlon on 10x. And the Athlon get the extra 2x power.
Zoom ring is quite a bit tighter on the Burris than on the Athlon.
Parralax seem easier to adjust on the Burris than in the Athlon
I can check again tonight in low light but to me the Burris is more of a hunter style scope and the Athlon is more of a tactical/hybrid scope. If you don’t care that much about edge to edge clarity then the Athlon is slightly better because you get a bit more fov and 2x more on the top end but it’s heavier. Plus the reticle is fairly thick which I like but it won’t be the greatest for small group. That being said in normal light one is as good as the other and very hard to see any noticeable difference.
