20" 5R and 168 Hybrids...... Anyone running this pill?

[groundhogbuster]

I've been running my 260, & 65CM for the last several months and just about forgot about my .308 5R. I bought a NF NXS 3.5-15x56 NPR1 and NF base with NF rings (1.125") their too high, so I put em in Seekins, and am getting low on my 168SMK's and just got a cpl hundred of the Berger 168Hybrids, because of the .519BC. I was talking to a buddy where I bought em and he said they don't jump in his 5R 700. I jump all my SMK's and Scenars from 2.810" but just wondering what everyone was seating them at? The 175's shoot great, but just not needed at 4-600yds, and I can get some velocity from the 175's. Thank's anyone for the input.

 

[Jhague]

I've got an FN SPR 20" and just started learning how to hand load thanks to you all here with the 168 hybrids. Shot a confirmation for my OCW the other day and got three .3 MOA three round groups at 100yds. Going out as far as I can, I got .7MOA at 540yds and .6 MOA at 420 yds. Don't have a chrono but estimate 2560fps from jbm computer with 42.7grns Varget.

The above was all loaded at 2.135" to the ogive as that is mag length for me. I also shot 5rd groups at 2.135, 2.145, 2.155 ogive at 220yds. 2.155 was the smallest group so they probably don't like a large jump. At 2.135 for me they are jumping .132" already.

I'm enjoying them so far.

 

[gstaylorg]

I just did a seating depth test yesterday with 168 Hybrids in a GAP Crusader with a 27" 5R barrel. With a charge weight of 43.0 gr H4895 and MV ~2820 fps, I found the optimal seating depth to be .015" to .021" off the lands. The .015" off was the best, but all the groups between .015" to .021" were decent. I didn't test any farther than .021" off.

 

[groundhogbuster]

Thanks guys. I run 46gn of Varget with my 168smk and get around 2780, and high 2600'sfps for my 175's. Never tried H4895 but just bought 16lbs since it's what I run in my 223/.556's. I don't have a modified case for the 308, but I can have one made pretty quick.

Jhague..... Why are you running such a low charge of Varget? You should be able to get the speed up to 2700. Can't wait to get a new tube on this thing, my 20" Krieger is running 175's at 2850. The high BC becomes "moot" if your gonna run them at 2500 fps.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Thanks guys. I run 46gn of Varget with my 168smk and get around 2780, and high 2600'sfps for my 175's. Never tried H4895 but just bought 16lbs since it's what I run in my 223/.556's. I don't have a modified case for the 308, but I can have one made pretty quick.

Jhague..... Why are you running such a low charge of Varget? You should be able to get the speed up to 2700. Can't wait to get a new tube on this thing, my 20" Krieger is running 175's at 2850. The high BC becomes "moot" if your gonna run them at 2500 fps.

Holy shit. That's 250 FPS higher than my factory 20" 700 is capable of.

 

[malsa82]

I have gotten good results with most of the 168 offerings (Hornady Match & A-Max, SMKs & Hybrids) with 43.7 grains of Varget or 44.8 grains of IMR4320. The 4320 is my back up just because its been available lately, I usually run Varget. I am running a 22" factory Remington barrel... I seat everything but 155 Scenars at 2.830" including my "Go-To" .308 load of 175gr SMKs and 44.5 grains Varget. Scenars I seat to 2.885" and they just barely clear my AICS mags.

Your 46 grain load makes sense, I saw a node right around there when ladder testing but I was beginning to see pressure signs so I stuck with 43.7 grains and it has worked well.

 

[gstaylorg]

I was able to get well over 2900 fps with H4895 and the 168 Hybrids out of a 27" barrel with no *detectable* pressure signs. However, I just don't see the need to push them that fast and I'm fairly certain the pressure was somewhere in the neighborhood of 5000-6000 psi over max for a .308. You may get away with running them that hot, possibly never even encounter a major problem. On the other hand, brass life might not be so great and I'm more concerned with precision/accuracy than velocity. At 2820 fps, the 168 Hybrid is almost dead even to a 185 Juggernaut going 2750-2770 fps out to 600 yd. Even at 1000 yd it's not that far behind. So in my opinion, there's really not any reason to push them that hard. The 168 Hybrid has an extremely short bearing surface, which may be part of the reason it runs reasonably well in hot loads without overt pressure signs. But in general, it's the BC that is working for you, much more so than velocity, as long as you're reasonably close to max pressure/velocity.

 

[Jhague]

Jhague..... Why are you running such a low charge of Varget? You should be able to get the speed up to 2700. Can't wait to get a new tube on this thing, my 20" Krieger is running 175's at 2850. The high BC becomes "moot" if your gonna run them at 2500 fps.

This is my first time loading. I don't get to shoot too often so I started the development when it was 29 degrees. I finished last week when it was 81. So I guess I'm just being too careful watching for pressure signs. I think the Berger book max is 42.5grns which did seem low to me too.

You're right i'm losing the strengths of the round at this point but i'm still excited about the results for my first attempt. I'm definitely going to try to push it up some more this summer and I haven't seen any pressure signs so far. Going to try some 4064 I have too.

 

[drglock]

My son has a factory 700 SPS varmint in .308 . To touch that lands with them or any bullet in fact gives you an overall length of 2.92 to 2.94 depending on the bullets used . With that said his gun loves the 168 hybrids loaded with 46ish grs of power pro 2000 mr. His OAL and still fit in his mags was somewhere around 2.85 give or take a few. Group sizes are around 1/2 inch or under.
So in this gun it's quite a bit of jump.

 

[DHDeal]

My 308 (Gradous built Surgeon, Krieger 1-10 @ 24" truck axle, Jewell, McM A5, Badger M4) does like the 168 Hybrid, but not jumping. Thought for a while that I had purchased some very expensive fouling bullets. I jammed them .015", and something magical happened. The load is 43 grs H4895, Lapua Palma brass, and 450 primer. They are too long to fit in my magazine (have not changed to a DBM on this rifle yet), but I usually shoot this rifle off a rest and single loading is not a problem.

I suppose it's one of those cases where your rifle will tell you what it likes. I have found that you just have to work up a load with these types of bullets. A SMK, Scenar, Berger OTM/BTW Long Range types are easier to tune for me, but VLD's and hybrids shoot great after some work.

 

[BoilerUP]

Can't wait to get a new tube on this thing, my 20" Krieger is running 175's at 2850. The high BC becomes "moot" if your gonna run them at 2500 fps.

2850? With 175s? With Varget? From a 20" barrel?

Your barrel is very fast, your load is very hot, or a combination thereof.

 

[groundhogbuster]

I just got finished running 20 of these at various depths, and charges. My Berger book says 42.5gn Varget is max, but Varget says 46, and it shoots bugholes with smk's, and Scenars loaded at 2.810". My best group was .727" at 100 loading them at 2.810" which was just about the same as running them at 2.900". The throat in these things are a country mile. I tried 2.810/2.850/2.870/2.880/ & 2.900, ( Still not hitting lands). I'm not as concerned with velocity with accuracy either, but when it shoots .2 and .3's with 46gn esp in a 20" tube running over 2800fps I'm sticking with it. I'm getting 12+ loads with Win brass, and still looking good. My 260 is running 2950fps with a Magneto speed attached, shooting 140 hybrids, which is the fastest 260 I've owned. I'm running a Velocity 1000 with MV.5 (suggested by Bob Beck) and my 1st shot at a ghog at 1025yds was over a ft high holding on the 1k line, so I'm dialing all shots with it now.
I'd love to shoot a 168gn pill with a 519BC over 2800fps in my 5R but I just got spoiled with SMK's, and Scenars jumping them. Even the 140 6.5mm hybrid wasn't finicky in my Beanland 260, it just shoots great. All shooting today was in 85 degrees and the 46gn load showed no signs of pressure at all. If it's not gonna shoot em I'd just assume to have 2 boxes of SMKs as this Berger. I've shot Berger for 20yrs now, and could always get em to shoot, but I hate wasting $60 a 100 to do so. If anyone is shooting these in their factory 5R or SPS please chime in, and gimme some load help.

 

[groundhogbuster]

2850? With 175s? With Varget? From a 20" barrel?

Your barrel is very fast, your load is very hot, or a combination thereof.

SWAT Article BARREL LENGTH

Read. I was there for a test exactly like this, shooting FGMM and the barrel was cut an " at a time after 15-20rds were fired. Not so true with a Factory tube, but I have a Krieger 260 that shoots the same exact load (139's/45.1H4831sc) 2720 that my newer 260 is running 2950. Same length 24".

 

[BoilerUP]

SWAT Article BARREL LENGTH

Read.

I have read that, numerous times.

Of course a custom barrel & chamber is going to be faster than a stock 700 chamber with a mile-long throat...that doesn't change the fact that 2850fps with a 175gr bullet from a 20" 308 with Varget means your barrel is exceptionally fast, your load is very hot, or both.

Because science.