20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

[SigsauerP229]

So I have a 26" 300WM and another 26" 300WM barrled action that I have been trying to sell but I'm not getting much response, so I'm thinking about re-barreling it to a 20" to go along with my 26".

From what I've read though 300WM doesn't seem to have much appreciation in short barrels and it sounds like it might be hard on my 30cal can. So I'm considering re-barreling it to a 20" 7WSM and I was curious what everyone's thought were.

Also does anyone have experience running a 20" 7WSM preferably with 180 Bergers? I'm also curious what the specs are on your gun, barrel make, twist, velocity, and what kind of accuracy have you gotten?

Thanks

 

[tipper]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

Can you say flame thrower.

 

[SigsauerP229]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tipper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you say flame thrower. </div></div>

Is this an assumption or do you have experience? I'd really appreciate it if you could give me the details of your experience with it.

Thanks

 

[beretta_man11]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

I do not have experience with the 7wsm but I do have a 300wm @ 22". Sure I've lost velocity but nothing I can't deal with. The "flame thrower" issue is not prevalent on my gun.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

I have shot a 22.5" 9 tw bartlein barreled 7wsm for the past 3 years. 162 amaxes at 2955 fps. Successfully shot back to 1330.

IME a short barreled 7wsm requires disciplined load development and you MAY have to think outside the box. I did not even consider shooting 180s out of a short barrel.

 

[knockemdown]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

If barrel length were the priority in the build, I'd pick a cartridge more ideally suited to it than a 7Wizzer. Mine has 24" Broughton 5C 1:9, and I only ever shoot the 162Amax/168VLDs. It'll spin the 180s just fine, but that config won't push 'em fast enough to justify using them. A 162 @ 3K+ beats a 180 @ 2850 to almost 1200yds, which is about as far as I shoot it...

Your choice, but if I specifically wanted a short barreled rig, I'd prolly chamber it in 7-08...

 

[Chiller]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SigsauerP229</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I have a 26" 300WM and another 26" 300WM barrled action that I have been trying to sell but I'm not getting much response, so I'm thinking about re-barreling it to a 20" to go along with my 26".

From what I've read though 300WM doesn't seem to have much appreciation in short barrels and it sounds like it might be hard on my 30cal can. So I'm considering re-barreling it to a 20" 7WSM and I was curious what everyone's thought were.

Also does anyone have experience running a 20" 7WSM preferably with 180 Bergers? I'm also curious what the specs are on your gun, barrel make, twist, velocity, and what kind of accuracy have you gotten?

Thanks
</div></div>

Will try to dig mine out.

Can tell you fo sho.....not a 20" barrel unless you have a specific reason?

easily sub-moa at 1k

have used it at F-class comps a few times just to play.

 

[KYS]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

Why would you rob this cartridge of its potential by going to a 20" barrel? I would go no shorter then 25". Preferably the length is ideal at 27" and up.

 

[SigsauerP229]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

Thanks for the replies.

My reason for considering the shorter barrel is that I already have these cartridges in long barrels and I'd like to have a shorter one for hunting and hiking.

 

[rusty815]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

I say go for it. I don't understand the mentality that you need a longer barrel to get magnum performance, the 7wsm should still be capable of slinging 162-168gr. rounds at 2900+fps, it's not like you won't get magnum performance out of a shorter barrel, just less performance.

 

[nolo263]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

I would try it for sure. If you roll your own you should be fine!

 

[Chiller]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I say go for it. I don't understand the mentality that you need a longer barrel to get magnum performance, the 7wsm should still be capable of slinging 162-168gr. rounds at 2900+fps, it's not like you won't get magnum performance out of a shorter barrel, just less performance. </div></div>

Can I interest you in a 16" .338 LM?

 

[rusty815]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I say go for it. I don't understand the mentality that you need a longer barrel to get magnum performance, the 7wsm should still be capable of slinging 162-168gr. rounds at 2900+fps, it's not like you won't get magnum performance out of a shorter barrel, just less performance. </div></div>

Can I interest you in a 16" .338 LM? </div></div>

If I had the resources, I would try it

Seriously though, I would, just can't afford it right now. Imo it's counterintuitive to think you need a long barrel to get magnum performance. A magnum is a magnum no matter what length the barrel is, the 300wm/wsm it's still capable of 2850-2900fps out of a 20" barrel with 208gr. Hornady rounds, the 7wsm should be very capable of doing what I said.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Can I interest you in a 16" .338 LM? </div></div>

Yes

 

[762frmafr]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

Howitzers shoot 20 miles because they have a 20 foot long barrel.

Also, why get a blown Hemi and put a 2 barrel carbuerator on it?

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

 

[Chiller]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tyler Kemp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Can I interest you in a 16" .338 LM? </div></div>

Yes

</div></div>

YOU don't count.....

 

[snakebyte922]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 762frmafr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Howitzers shoot 20 miles because they have a 20 foot long barrel.

Also, why get a blown Hemi and put a 2 barrel carbuerator on it?

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. </div></div>

HAHA

 

[762frmafr]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: snakebyte922</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 762frmafr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Howitzers shoot 20 miles because they have a 20 foot long barrel.

Also, why get a blown Hemi and put a 2 barrel carbuerator on it?

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. </div></div>

HAHA </div></div>

I fail to see the humor in the above statements.

 

[rusty815]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

I'm not a car guy, so I can't comment on the Hemi, but I'm pretty sure the Howitzer would still be capable of shooting out to two miles with an 18" barrel.

A guy who goes by the name of bigsqueeze over at 24hourcampfire ran a 300WSM with a 16.5" barrel, according to him the drop in performance compared to a 24" barrel was only 4.5%, others came forward to verify this.

Heck, why don't you ask Lowlight why the military went with a 22" barrel on their XM2010 in 300WM as opposed to the 26" barrel you guys go on about?

 

[762frmafr]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

22" is still a long ways from 16"... Just saying

 

[rusty815]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

Yes, but the 16.5" rifle was a 300WSM, the 22" XM2010 is a 300WM, two different cartridges; I was giving two different examples. The OP wanted to know whether running a 7WSM was a bad idea, and I told him why it wasn't, you don't lose much going with a 20" barrel.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not a car guy, so I can't comment on the Hemi, but I'm pretty sure the Howitzer would still be capable of shooting out to two miles with an 18" barrel.

A guy who goes by the name of bigsqueeze over at 24hourcampfire ran a 300WSM with a 16.5" barrel, according to him the drop in performance compared to a 24" barrel was only 4.5%, others came forward to verify this.

Heck, why don't you ask Lowlight why the military went with a 22" barrel on their XM2010 in 300WM as opposed to the 26" barrel you guys go on about? </div></div>

There is a huge difference between 22" and 16.5". There is also more to it that simply saying "4.5%" performance drop. In terms of what? Drift? Energy? With what ammunition? What powders? What bullets?

 

[762frmafr]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

So... 20" barreled 7wsm shooting 180 hybrids...100% powder burn and 64066psi of chamber pressure equals 2672 fps.

27" barreled 7wsm shooting 180 hybrids at the same COAL...100% powder burn and 63858psi of chamber pressure equals 2939 fps.

2939-2672=267....that looks like a lot more than a 4.5% loss in velocity.

It is the difference of over 400 ft lbs of energy at 600 yards. That extra 267 fps also extends your 1000 ft lbs of energy limit to well past 1000 yards.

 

[rusty815]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not a car guy, so I can't comment on the Hemi, but I'm pretty sure the Howitzer would still be capable of shooting out to two miles with an 18" barrel.

A guy who goes by the name of bigsqueeze over at 24hourcampfire ran a 300WSM with a 16.5" barrel, according to him the drop in performance compared to a 24" barrel was only 4.5%, others came forward to verify this.

Heck, why don't you ask Lowlight why the military went with a 22" barrel on their XM2010 in 300WM as opposed to the 26" barrel you guys go on about? </div></div>

There is a huge difference between 22" and 16.5". There is also more to it that simply saying "4.5%" performance drop. In terms of what? Drift? Energy? With what ammunition? What powders? What bullets? </div></div>

Read my last response, those were two different examples. the 4.5% difference was in velocity with handloads, 2950fps with 208gr. A-MAX in the 300WSM out of a 24" barrel turned to 2820fps out of a 16.5" barrel with the same load.

 

[RedGoat]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

Is it Glen Seekins that is running a 23" 7wsm and still getting 2900+ with the 162 amax?

 

[rusty815]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

I don't know about seekins but I know Kevin Rayhill, one of the premier savage smiths, loves the 7wsm and exclaims that it is an efficient cartridge, out even performs well out of a short barrel, he also says that there isn't much of a gain going longer than 27" with a wsm, he's been loading for the wsm's since they came out in '01, so I would trust him with this sort of stuff.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goatphius</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it Glen Seekins that is running a 23" 7wsm and still getting 2900+ with the 162 amax? </div></div>

You may find that his barrel is shorter and velocity faster.

 

[RedGoat]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know about seekins but I know Kevin Rayhill, one of the premier savage smiths, loves the 7wsm and exclaims that it is an efficient cartridge, out even performs well out of a short barrel, he also says that there isn't much of a gain going longer than 27" with a wsm, he's been loading for the wsm's since they came out in '01, so I would trust him with this sort of stuff.</div></div>

Then get him in here to share some first hand data, or get some info from him. We need some numbers.

 

[rusty815]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

The only thing I got from him last time we chatted was that a 7wsm can get about 2800 with 180gr. Berger rounds out a 20" barrel with the right load, most likely faster. He told me this when I asked him about starting a short barreled 7RSAUM build, he wasn't experienced with the RSAUM so he tried to sell me on the WSM.

 

[pappy83]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

I have a 20 inch 7mm SAUM, it shoots really well. It holds 3 to 4 inch groups(in good wind) at 800yds(5 shot) with the kid behind the rifle we shoot this distance 3 times a week usually. It pushes 168vld's and 168 smk right at 3000fps with a stiff load, and 2950 with 66 grains of h1000. I like the barrel length we also have a 20 inch 300wm that shoots 208 amax's great at 800yds and in. We have no flame thrower effect. The saum has shot very well at 1000yds also we really like the way it carries and it is hunted with also. Here is a picture of rifle.

 

[rusty815]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pappy83</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 20 inch 7mm SAUM, it shoots really well. It holds 3 to 4 inch groups(in good wind) at 800yds(5 shot) with the kid behind the rifle we shoot this distance 3 times a week usually. It pushes 168vld's and 168 smk right at 3000fps with a stiff load, and 2950 with 66 grains of h1000. I like the barrel length we also have a 20 inch 300wm that shoots 208 amax's great at 800yds and in. We have no flame thrower effect. The saum has shot very well at 1000yds also we really like the way it carries and it is hunted with also. Here is a picture of rifle.

</div></div>

I don't think anything else needs to be said, I think that info speaks wonders, surely that's enough for the op to go ahead with this.

 

[SigsauerP229]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

Well you guys convinced me but to go with a short barrel. It seems that some of you have gotten better results then I had found running the 300WM short, so since I have a long action rather then going to the 7WSM, it just makes more sense to me to cut the 300WM to 22" and then if I feel the drop isn't much I might eventually go to 20".

Thank you for all the helpful replies.

 

[tipper]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pappy83</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 20 inch 7mm SAUM, it shoots really well. It holds 3 to 4 inch groups(in good wind) at 800yds(5 shot) with the kid behind the rifle we shoot this distance 3 times a week usually. It pushes 168vld's and 168 smk right at 3000fps with a stiff load, and 2950 with 66 grains of h1000. I like the barrel length we also have a 20 inch 300wm that shoots 208 amax's great at 800yds and in. We have no flame thrower effect. The saum has shot very well at 1000yds also we really like the way it carries and it is hunted with also. Here is a picture of rifle.

</div></div>

Here is your first post, they just don't read the same for this rifle or load.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pappy83</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Put together a new savage this past month specs are 7mm SAUM, 20 inch CBI barrel, HS precision stock, rifle is short action, loads are 66.5 h1000, br2 primer, remmy brass, and a 2.950coal with 168 vld. my 5 shot string was 2,881/2888/2892/2885/2887 group measured .411 at 100yds. rifle shoots all 162-168 bullets into small groups just thought velocity seemed a little fast for 20 inch barrel. Also used some re17 that showed 2930ish but groups opened up to .6-.650.</div></div>

 

[RedGoat]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SigsauerP229</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well you guys convinced me but to go with a short barrel. It seems that some of you have gotten better results then I had found running the 300WM short, so since I have a long action rather then going to the 7WSM, it just makes more sense to me to cut the 300WM to 22" and then if I feel the drop isn't much I might eventually go to 20".

Thank you for all the helpful replies.

</div></div>

I've heard from others that the 300wm doesn't do as well in a short barrel as the wsm because of the longer powder column. Don't remember the exact numbers, but I remember the wsm was getting better numbers than the wm out of the shorter barrels.

Also I would run the 7wsm out of a long action expessially out of a short barrel since you are going to be running it hard to get the most out of the rig; since you are relying more on the cartridge than the barrel length for velocity.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pappy83</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 20 inch 7mm SAUM, it shoots really well. It holds 3 to 4 inch groups(in good wind) at 800yds(5 shot) with the kid behind the rifle we shoot this distance 3 times a week usually. It pushes 168vld's and 168 smk right at 3000fps with a stiff load, and 2950 with 66 grains of h1000. I like the barrel length we also have a 20 inch 300wm that shoots 208 amax's great at 800yds and in. We have no flame thrower effect. The saum has shot very well at 1000yds also we really like the way it carries and it is hunted with also. Here is a picture of rifle.

</div></div>

What speed are you getting with the 208 out of your short barrel rig?

 

[pappy83]

Re: 20" Barrel for a 7WSM using 180 Bergers Questions

It has gotten alot warmer here since we first checked velocity, and it now has over 500rds down range. I am very suprised also but have checked with two chrony's. The 300 is in the low 2700's with max load of H1000, same manufactuer for barrel as 7mm saum. Best velocity in the 7mm is with a hot load of re17.