I was just sitting at work doing some thinking. It seems like the fashionable thing to have these days is a 20" barrel. Most 20" barrelled rifles are deemed "tactical", and now days if "ain't" tactical it just "ain't" worth having. But may I ask, what actually makes a rifle "tactical"? How many wars and skirmishes have been won with rifles with barrels much much longer than 20 inches. Now don't get me wrong I do understand that there sometimes are specific needs for SBR's. But honestly is this 20" barrel thing more a fad than anything?
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20" Barrel ??
- Thread starter skep_tic1
- Start date
Re: 20" Barrel ??
The shorter barrels are more practical to carry around. I cut my 308 down from 26" to 18" and don't regret it at all. I benefited more from going short then leaving it long.
The shorter barrels are more practical to carry around. I cut my 308 down from 26" to 18" and don't regret it at all. I benefited more from going short then leaving it long.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
Yes it is a fad...
Nothing was 20" until the term, "tactical" was coined,
M1 Carbine 18"
M16 20"
M4 14.5"
HK416 9" to 19.9"
etc...
Do you mean boltguns/sniper rifles... ? other than WWI I don't know many that won the wars alone.
Yes it is a fad...
Nothing was 20" until the term, "tactical" was coined,
M1 Carbine 18"
M16 20"
M4 14.5"
HK416 9" to 19.9"
etc...
Do you mean boltguns/sniper rifles... ? other than WWI I don't know many that won the wars alone.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
To me, if I can retain close to the same ballistics with a 20" barrel as a 24-26", then why not? The weight reduction and maneuverability are huge pluses if you're going to be lugging your rifle around more than from your truck to the bench. Also, the use of suppressors has become a lot more popular than in the past. Add a six inch can at the end of a 26" barrel and you have a very long stick. add the same suppressor to a 20" barrel and you are going to have a much more manageable weapon. Just my .02
To me, if I can retain close to the same ballistics with a 20" barrel as a 24-26", then why not? The weight reduction and maneuverability are huge pluses if you're going to be lugging your rifle around more than from your truck to the bench. Also, the use of suppressors has become a lot more popular than in the past. Add a six inch can at the end of a 26" barrel and you have a very long stick. add the same suppressor to a 20" barrel and you are going to have a much more manageable weapon. Just my .02
Re: 20" Barrel ??
I believe part of the reason is that one of the contributing factors is the increase in mechanized operations. It is a heck of alot easier to get in and out of vehicles/amtracs/aircraft/etc... with a short barrel weapon system (M-4/Para-SAW)than the standard length weapons. That fact, combined with the additional weight being carried due to heavier body armor/PPE, makes the shorter barreled (usually lighter weapons) more appealing as well. Heck, with all the crap we had to wear, a pound or two made a difference.
Also, they just look cooler....
I believe part of the reason is that one of the contributing factors is the increase in mechanized operations. It is a heck of alot easier to get in and out of vehicles/amtracs/aircraft/etc... with a short barrel weapon system (M-4/Para-SAW)than the standard length weapons. That fact, combined with the additional weight being carried due to heavier body armor/PPE, makes the shorter barreled (usually lighter weapons) more appealing as well. Heck, with all the crap we had to wear, a pound or two made a difference.
Also, they just look cooler....
Re: 20" Barrel ??
I cut mine down long before it was tactical cool, I like how short barrels carry. The bonus of not affecting accuracy was just a plus. Climbing trees, walking through brush, and in my kids case just being really small made up the reasons I bought or had mine cut down, it just works so well with a .308. The fact that they look cool is just another bonus.
I cut mine down long before it was tactical cool, I like how short barrels carry. The bonus of not affecting accuracy was just a plus. Climbing trees, walking through brush, and in my kids case just being really small made up the reasons I bought or had mine cut down, it just works so well with a .308. The fact that they look cool is just another bonus.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
pluses
shorter barrel = stiffer (ceteris paribus) barrel
more maneuverable, esp in a vehicle
lighter- good for hunting!
tacti-cool
minuses
MV will suffer (it may or may not be significant, but it will have an effect)
slightly heavier recoil from lighter system overall
a folding stock can shorten up a system too.
pluses
shorter barrel = stiffer (ceteris paribus) barrel
more maneuverable, esp in a vehicle
lighter- good for hunting!
tacti-cool
minuses
MV will suffer (it may or may not be significant, but it will have an effect)
slightly heavier recoil from lighter system overall
a folding stock can shorten up a system too.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
like everyones saying.
shorter barrel is lighter, more ridgid (essentially more accurate), and more menueverable.
the question is why NOT a shorter barrel? yeah they use to shoot long barreled rifles. muskets won wars too... im not using that either.
like everyones saying.
shorter barrel is lighter, more ridgid (essentially more accurate), and more menueverable.
the question is why NOT a shorter barrel? yeah they use to shoot long barreled rifles. muskets won wars too... im not using that either.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
yeah they use to shoot long barreled rifles. muskets won wars too... im not using that either. </div></div>
You could rock a gladius and shield.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
yeah they use to shoot long barreled rifles. muskets won wars too... im not using that either. </div></div>
You could rock a gladius and shield.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
Give me the longer barrel anytime. Unless you are running and gunning, I will take the extra muzzle velocity over the easy of movement. I just don't see that 1-1,5 pounds making that much of a difference. More practical . . . well that just depends on what you are doing with your rifle and what distances you are shooting at. 26"-28" barrels just look better to me also. I just am not fond of a short dinky barrel hanging off the end of a beefy tactical style stock.
Give me the longer barrel anytime. Unless you are running and gunning, I will take the extra muzzle velocity over the easy of movement. I just don't see that 1-1,5 pounds making that much of a difference. More practical . . . well that just depends on what you are doing with your rifle and what distances you are shooting at. 26"-28" barrels just look better to me also. I just am not fond of a short dinky barrel hanging off the end of a beefy tactical style stock.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
I have yet to see a longer barrel or better caliber make any difference to moderate shooter, at all.
I have seen someone like Terry Cross win with a 24" 260 and then Top 10 with an 18" 308, so there is something for that... but I have never seen a Bottom 20 shooter move into the Top 20 just by changing the ballistic advantage which only appears on paper.
I have yet to see a longer barrel or better caliber make any difference to moderate shooter, at all.
I have seen someone like Terry Cross win with a 24" 260 and then Top 10 with an 18" 308, so there is something for that... but I have never seen a Bottom 20 shooter move into the Top 20 just by changing the ballistic advantage which only appears on paper.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
Tac Ops rifles have been 20" for a long, long time.
Benchrest rifles have been 20" for decades.
This pre-dates the "tactical" models.
Barrel deflection and "whip" is reduced with a shorter barrel. The shorter, the stiffer. My .308's accuracy improved when I cut it down to 20" from 26", but it was also rereamed and had a new crown, which could have been a big part of it.
Barrel length depends on the caliber and use more than anything. I wouldn't touch a 20" 6.5, but the .308s do great in 20".
In the end, the rifle only shoots as good as the trigger-yanker behind it.
Tac Ops rifles have been 20" for a long, long time.
Benchrest rifles have been 20" for decades.
This pre-dates the "tactical" models.
Barrel deflection and "whip" is reduced with a shorter barrel. The shorter, the stiffer. My .308's accuracy improved when I cut it down to 20" from 26", but it was also rereamed and had a new crown, which could have been a big part of it.
Barrel length depends on the caliber and use more than anything. I wouldn't touch a 20" 6.5, but the .308s do great in 20".
In the end, the rifle only shoots as good as the trigger-yanker behind it.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
The reason it appeals to me, as stated before, is just the simple fact that it is easier to carry. I do a lot of hunting, and that involves walking around, riding in trucks, jeeps, 4-wheelers, whatever, and it is easier to store, tote, ride with, pull up, and maneuver. So it is not a tactical thing for me, it just makes things easier. And if you can get a barrel that short and not sacrifice anything, then why not do it?
The reason it appeals to me, as stated before, is just the simple fact that it is easier to carry. I do a lot of hunting, and that involves walking around, riding in trucks, jeeps, 4-wheelers, whatever, and it is easier to store, tote, ride with, pull up, and maneuver. So it is not a tactical thing for me, it just makes things easier. And if you can get a barrel that short and not sacrifice anything, then why not do it?
Re: 20" Barrel ??
the shorter barrels are great when space is and issue like storing it in your patrol car or having to hop fences or climb over stuff so you can setup for a shot. if your just taking out of a safe, putting it in a case, going to the range and then back to the safe a shorter barrel is not necessary. However the short barreled guns look sweet!!!!
the shorter barrels are great when space is and issue like storing it in your patrol car or having to hop fences or climb over stuff so you can setup for a shot. if your just taking out of a safe, putting it in a case, going to the range and then back to the safe a shorter barrel is not necessary. However the short barreled guns look sweet!!!!
Re: 20" Barrel ??
My custom 21" 338mag has been here before the "tactical" market has. It is a hell of a rifle for carrying in the woods and it brings the thunder when squeezed off.
My custom 21" 338mag has been here before the "tactical" market has. It is a hell of a rifle for carrying in the woods and it brings the thunder when squeezed off.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">little barrels are for little people</div></div>
Shouldn't you be sweeping the library floors, picking up books or getting the librarian coffee ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">little barrels are for little people</div></div>
Shouldn't you be sweeping the library floors, picking up books or getting the librarian coffee ?
Re: 20" Barrel ??
Barrel length is inversely proportional to...never mind, overdone. I've found that my 20" .308 gets taken out in the woods much more often than does the 24". They both are currently shooting the same load and there's a MV difference of 70 fps. Recoil doesn't feel much different either. I just like the portability of the 20" more.
Barrel length is inversely proportional to...never mind, overdone. I've found that my 20" .308 gets taken out in the woods much more often than does the 24". They both are currently shooting the same load and there's a MV difference of 70 fps. Recoil doesn't feel much different either. I just like the portability of the 20" more.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
6'1 240lbs here... if im little im gonna listen to what ever you say cus your probably huge boltripper.
6'1 240lbs here... if im little im gonna listen to what ever you say cus your probably huge boltripper.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
Every year I get older. And every year it's more difficult to carry around all the gear, including the infamous "16lb" rifle. I was just talking to UGSW about their new rifle but I can't bring myself to go to a shorter barrel.
And I think guys who carry 20" barrels just can't take the pain of suffering for their art.
Every year I get older. And every year it's more difficult to carry around all the gear, including the infamous "16lb" rifle. I was just talking to UGSW about their new rifle but I can't bring myself to go to a shorter barrel.
And I think guys who carry 20" barrels just can't take the pain of suffering for their art.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedRyder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Every year I get older. And every year it's more difficult to carry around all the gear, including the infamous "16lb" rifle. I was just talking to UGSW about their new rifle but I can't bring myself to go to a shorter barrel.
I think I'm going to invent a gun caddy. Pretty pathetic, isn't it? </div></div>
they already have gun caddies... they are waiting infront of home depot right now ready and willing to carry your rifle all day for 50 bucks. just dont give him ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedRyder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Every year I get older. And every year it's more difficult to carry around all the gear, including the infamous "16lb" rifle. I was just talking to UGSW about their new rifle but I can't bring myself to go to a shorter barrel.
I think I'm going to invent a gun caddy. Pretty pathetic, isn't it? </div></div>
they already have gun caddies... they are waiting infront of home depot right now ready and willing to carry your rifle all day for 50 bucks. just dont give him ammo.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6'1 240lbs here... if im little im gonna listen to what ever you say cus your probably huge boltripper.</div></div>
here is LL inspecting a recent injury (hang nail)whilst on the range
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6'1 240lbs here... if im little im gonna listen to what ever you say cus your probably huge boltripper.</div></div>
here is LL inspecting a recent injury (hang nail)whilst on the range
Re: 20" Barrel ??
With my hunting rifles most of them are 24-26", but then again most are some kinda magnum caliber. With cartridge that aren't over bored I prefer a shorter barrel. I think I only have one with a barrel of 20" but quite a few that land somewhere between 16" and 21"
With my hunting rifles most of them are 24-26", but then again most are some kinda magnum caliber. With cartridge that aren't over bored I prefer a shorter barrel. I think I only have one with a barrel of 20" but quite a few that land somewhere between 16" and 21"
Re: 20" Barrel ??
BR rifles don't have 20" barrels because they want to be tacticool, but because of weight limits.
I have a 7.62x39 with 20" barrel, mainly for tacticool and for the smaller package. My other guns all have 30-34" barrels intended to get any speed advantage I can. The difference between 30-32 is small, but 20-30" is significant.
If ballistics is no issue, well, that is why they invented handguns. 6" is plenty of barrel
BR rifles don't have 20" barrels because they want to be tacticool, but because of weight limits.
I have a 7.62x39 with 20" barrel, mainly for tacticool and for the smaller package. My other guns all have 30-34" barrels intended to get any speed advantage I can. The difference between 30-32 is small, but 20-30" is significant.
If ballistics is no issue, well, that is why they invented handguns. 6" is plenty of barrel
Re: 20" Barrel ??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6'1 240lbs here... if im little im gonna listen to what ever you say cus your probably huge boltripper.</div></div>
here is LL inspecting a recent injury (hang nail)whilst on the range
</div></div>
Did you pull his finger!!! lol
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6'1 240lbs here... if im little im gonna listen to what ever you say cus your probably huge boltripper.</div></div>
here is LL inspecting a recent injury (hang nail)whilst on the range
</div></div>
Did you pull his finger!!! lol
Re: 20" Barrel ??
Team Michigun (Grand River Tactical) is thinking about arriving at an as yet un-named match with a 6.5 Mauser, a Garand, and a Lee Enfield. Now <span style="text-decoration: underline">that's</span> tactical. Any bets on how we'll do?
Team Michigun (Grand River Tactical) is thinking about arriving at an as yet un-named match with a 6.5 Mauser, a Garand, and a Lee Enfield. Now <span style="text-decoration: underline">that's</span> tactical. Any bets on how we'll do?
Re: 20" Barrel ??
Based on my reading and talking with "tactical" users, LEO tend to want to use 20" because they do not need the distance in urban situations.
For military snipers, they would trade distance for anything else because it is that much harder to spot a sniper who is 600 yds away vs one who is 200 yds away. As such, they need a 24-26" barrel to yield a higher velocity.
Based on my reading and talking with "tactical" users, LEO tend to want to use 20" because they do not need the distance in urban situations.
For military snipers, they would trade distance for anything else because it is that much harder to spot a sniper who is 600 yds away vs one who is 200 yds away. As such, they need a 24-26" barrel to yield a higher velocity.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
If it's a caliber that doesn't lose a significant amount of MV, then I want a short barrel every time. Easier to get in and out of a vehicle, faster maneuvering, not near as much in the way when carrying it around(hunting)
If it's a caliber that doesn't lose a significant amount of MV, then I want a short barrel every time. Easier to get in and out of a vehicle, faster maneuvering, not near as much in the way when carrying it around(hunting)
Re: 20" Barrel ??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Art Y.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on my reading and talking with "tactical" users, LEO tend to want to use 20" because they do not need the distance in urban situations.
For military snipers, they would trade distance for anything else because it is that much harder to spot a sniper who is 600 yds away vs one who is 200 yds away. As such, they need a 24-26" barrel to yield a higher velocity. </div></div>
What in the hell are you talking about? I see this was based on reading and talking with Tactical users, not any actuall experience of any kind. By yhe way how would extra velocity help spot a sniper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Art Y.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on my reading and talking with "tactical" users, LEO tend to want to use 20" because they do not need the distance in urban situations.
For military snipers, they would trade distance for anything else because it is that much harder to spot a sniper who is 600 yds away vs one who is 200 yds away. As such, they need a 24-26" barrel to yield a higher velocity. </div></div>
What in the hell are you talking about? I see this was based on reading and talking with Tactical users, not any actuall experience of any kind. By yhe way how would extra velocity help spot a sniper?
Re: 20" Barrel ??
I have a 20 inch 308 and i find it gives up about 75 to 100 FPS on 24 inch. It may make a difference at the very end of its effective range (guessing past 800m) but otherwise I cant imagine the ballstics are vastly different. It doesnt seem to amount to much under 600m so the stand off range shouldn't be that different to a 24-26. Much past 800m that i think a different calibre may be in order. I qualify that - i have no idea what the military do, what they use or how they use it. Just what i know from my rifle and loads.
I have a 20 inch 308 and i find it gives up about 75 to 100 FPS on 24 inch. It may make a difference at the very end of its effective range (guessing past 800m) but otherwise I cant imagine the ballstics are vastly different. It doesnt seem to amount to much under 600m so the stand off range shouldn't be that different to a 24-26. Much past 800m that i think a different calibre may be in order. I qualify that - i have no idea what the military do, what they use or how they use it. Just what i know from my rifle and loads.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Art Y.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on my reading and talking with "tactical" users, LEO tend to want to use 20" because they do not need the distance in urban situations.
For military snipers, they would trade distance for anything else because it is that much harder to spot a sniper who is 600 yds away vs one who is 200 yds away. As such, they need a 24-26" barrel to yield a higher velocity. </div></div>
What in the hell are you talking about? I see this was based on reading and talking with Tactical users, not any actuall experience of any kind. By yhe way how would extra velocity help spot a sniper? </div></div>
i think hes saying that a 20'' barrel isnt capable of making 600yd shots. so to be able to stay 600 yds away and make a shot and avoid being spotted he wants a longer barrel. no caliber was specified. i can tell this was based souly on the facts.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Art Y.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on my reading and talking with "tactical" users, LEO tend to want to use 20" because they do not need the distance in urban situations.
For military snipers, they would trade distance for anything else because it is that much harder to spot a sniper who is 600 yds away vs one who is 200 yds away. As such, they need a 24-26" barrel to yield a higher velocity. </div></div>
What in the hell are you talking about? I see this was based on reading and talking with Tactical users, not any actuall experience of any kind. By yhe way how would extra velocity help spot a sniper? </div></div>
i think hes saying that a 20'' barrel isnt capable of making 600yd shots. so to be able to stay 600 yds away and make a shot and avoid being spotted he wants a longer barrel. no caliber was specified. i can tell this was based souly on the facts.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
By yhe way how would extra velocity help spot a sniper? </div></div>
I never said that.
Do you care tell us if you know of any US military snipers using 20" barrels? Caliber: 308win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
By yhe way how would extra velocity help spot a sniper? </div></div>
I never said that.
Do you care tell us if you know of any US military snipers using 20" barrels? Caliber: 308win
Re: 20" Barrel ??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Art Y.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
By yhe way how would extra velocity help spot a sniper? </div></div>
I never said that.
Do you care tell us if you know of any US military snipers using 20" barrels? Caliber: 308win
</div></div>
Rangers, SEALs, Marines, it's called a Mk11 and is a 20" 308, And the M110 is 20".
Not to mention the guys without a name using the 16" KAC, the USMC also has the 18.5" XM-3.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Art Y.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
By yhe way how would extra velocity help spot a sniper? </div></div>
I never said that.
Do you care tell us if you know of any US military snipers using 20" barrels? Caliber: 308win
</div></div>
Rangers, SEALs, Marines, it's called a Mk11 and is a 20" 308, And the M110 is 20".
Not to mention the guys without a name using the 16" KAC, the USMC also has the 18.5" XM-3.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
I'm sure someone around here knows better than me, but if I recall correctly, 20" barreled .308's are the direction the USMC is headed.
I'm sure someone around here knows better than me, but if I recall correctly, 20" barreled .308's are the direction the USMC is headed.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Art Y.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
By yhe way how would extra velocity help spot a sniper? </div></div>
I never said that.
Do you care tell us if you know of any US military snipers using 20" barrels? Caliber: 308win
</div></div>
Open mouth.....insert foot.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Art Y.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
By yhe way how would extra velocity help spot a sniper? </div></div>
I never said that.
Do you care tell us if you know of any US military snipers using 20" barrels? Caliber: 308win
</div></div>
Open mouth.....insert foot.......
Re: 20" Barrel ??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skep_tic1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> But honestly is this 20" barrel thing more a fad than anything? </div></div>
Chronographs in the hands of everyday shooters changed the barrel length issue for many, many people.
The "book" says I lost over 100 fps between 20 and 24 inches. reality is closer to 36.
The "book" also told me my 308 was a 3,000 fps laser with 125 grain Ballistic tips. Reality was closer to 2800.
The "book" told me that M118LR was 2600 FPS from a 25" barrel. I got 2500 from a 23" tube and 2500 from a 20" tube. But I still made hits Waaaayyyyy out there.
Hmmmm . . . .
Maybe this Jeff Cooper guy was right . . . . . .
BMT
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skep_tic1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> But honestly is this 20" barrel thing more a fad than anything? </div></div>
Chronographs in the hands of everyday shooters changed the barrel length issue for many, many people.
The "book" says I lost over 100 fps between 20 and 24 inches. reality is closer to 36.
The "book" also told me my 308 was a 3,000 fps laser with 125 grain Ballistic tips. Reality was closer to 2800.
The "book" told me that M118LR was 2600 FPS from a 25" barrel. I got 2500 from a 23" tube and 2500 from a 20" tube. But I still made hits Waaaayyyyy out there.
Hmmmm . . . .
Maybe this Jeff Cooper guy was right . . . . . .
BMT
Re: 20" Barrel ??
Not long after I had my 26" cut to 22", I started thinking about how much shorter I should have gone. I can't imagine I previously lugged that 26" in the hills with a Harris 13-25 mounted.
Before cutting, I even contemplated 23" vs. 22".
Since I obviously didn't shoot the different lengths back-to-back, I can say I noticed NO difference in felt recoil, muzzle blast, or whatever it was about which I was previously concerned.
Not long after I had my 26" cut to 22", I started thinking about how much shorter I should have gone. I can't imagine I previously lugged that 26" in the hills with a Harris 13-25 mounted.
Before cutting, I even contemplated 23" vs. 22".
Since I obviously didn't shoot the different lengths back-to-back, I can say I noticed NO difference in felt recoil, muzzle blast, or whatever it was about which I was previously concerned.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">little barrels are for little people</div></div>
Really... Had to take it to that level... Some people.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">little barrels are for little people</div></div>
Really... Had to take it to that level... Some people.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
I hunt with an 18-pound, 26"-barrel .308. It's never bothered me, and I'm only about 5'9' 170lb. It's good exercise!
I hunt with an 18-pound, 26"-barrel .308. It's never bothered me, and I'm only about 5'9' 170lb. It's good exercise!
Re: 20" Barrel ??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Rangers, SEALs, Marines, it's called a Mk11 and is a 20" 308, And the M110 is 20".
Not to mention the guys without a name using the 16" KAC, the USMC also has the 18.5" XM-3.
</div></div>
Interesting ... are these used more for specific shorter distance ops or for general purpose sniping?
Can you get 0.5 MOA accuracy using a 20" barrel rifle for targets located further than 800 yds? What's in that rifle?
Please educate. Thanks!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Rangers, SEALs, Marines, it's called a Mk11 and is a 20" 308, And the M110 is 20".
Not to mention the guys without a name using the 16" KAC, the USMC also has the 18.5" XM-3.
</div></div>
Interesting ... are these used more for specific shorter distance ops or for general purpose sniping?
Can you get 0.5 MOA accuracy using a 20" barrel rifle for targets located further than 800 yds? What's in that rifle?
Please educate. Thanks!
Re: 20" Barrel ??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Art Y.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on my reading and talking with "tactical" users, LEO tend to want to use 20" because they do not need the distance in urban situations.
For military snipers, they would trade distance for anything else because it is that much harder to spot a sniper who is 600 yds away vs one who is 200 yds away. As such, they need a 24-26" barrel to yield a higher velocity. </div></div>
i made a third round hit and then several consecutive hits on a 21" plate at 1500 yards with an 18.5" barrel 308. is that the best tool for that distance? hell no. the point is that a short barrel 308 isn't limited to close range work.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Art Y.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on my reading and talking with "tactical" users, LEO tend to want to use 20" because they do not need the distance in urban situations.
For military snipers, they would trade distance for anything else because it is that much harder to spot a sniper who is 600 yds away vs one who is 200 yds away. As such, they need a 24-26" barrel to yield a higher velocity. </div></div>
i made a third round hit and then several consecutive hits on a 21" plate at 1500 yards with an 18.5" barrel 308. is that the best tool for that distance? hell no. the point is that a short barrel 308 isn't limited to close range work.
Re: 20" Barrel ??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Art Y.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Rangers, SEALs, Marines, it's called a Mk11 and is a 20" 308, And the M110 is 20".
Not to mention the guys without a name using the 16" KAC, the USMC also has the 18.5" XM-3.
</div></div>
Interesting ... are these used more for specific shorter distance ops or for general purpose sniping?
Can you get 0.5 MOA accuracy using a 20" barrel rifle for targets located further than 800 yds? What's in that rifle?
Please educate. Thanks!
</div></div>
They barely take shots beyond 800yards, not a very high probability of hits, although of course they do and they can, especially at elevation like in Afghanistan, but realistically they are not shooting that far. In places like Iraq they average shot hovered around 400m, sure you can point instances of longer, but on average, most aren't shooting that far.
They have bigger guns for beyond 800m as a 308 is really only an 800m cartridge to begin with.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Art Y.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Rangers, SEALs, Marines, it's called a Mk11 and is a 20" 308, And the M110 is 20".
Not to mention the guys without a name using the 16" KAC, the USMC also has the 18.5" XM-3.
</div></div>
Interesting ... are these used more for specific shorter distance ops or for general purpose sniping?
Can you get 0.5 MOA accuracy using a 20" barrel rifle for targets located further than 800 yds? What's in that rifle?
Please educate. Thanks!
</div></div>
They barely take shots beyond 800yards, not a very high probability of hits, although of course they do and they can, especially at elevation like in Afghanistan, but realistically they are not shooting that far. In places like Iraq they average shot hovered around 400m, sure you can point instances of longer, but on average, most aren't shooting that far.
They have bigger guns for beyond 800m as a 308 is really only an 800m cartridge to begin with.
