$2000-$2500 Spotting Scope

[tqlcvnch]

I know there must be a few hundred posts on this topic already, but I just want to confirm if Zeiss is the best option out of the bunch below:

1.) $2,500 Demo: Victory DiaScope 85 T* FL 20-75x

2.) $2,050 New: MeOpta S2 82mm HD 30-60x (or may be 20-70x)

3.) $2,400 Used: Swarovski STS 80 HD 20-60x


What are your thoughts? My primary use is to see bullet holes on Shoot-N-See targets from 100-300 yards out without getting my ass off the bench. But the fact that I can add adaptors to connect my DSLR camera to the Zeiss to take telescopic photos or looking at the stars at night with the Victory DiaScope is un-imaginable!

 

[Javelin]

Of those the swaro HD will have the best glass. Only besting the Swaro is the Kowa 883 with prominar lenses per the cornell institute testing. I would argue that had the swaro 95mm atx been out it would have resolved better than the 883 but it doesn't matter. Tops of the list are tops of the list with Kowa & swaro as the top dogs.

 

[The Lawn Ranger]

I have pre-HD angled Swaro and the glass is more than adequate to spot to a mile.

 

[Hairball]

Damn, you should not need a 2-2.5k optic to view a shoot-n-see at only 300 yards unless maybe its a .22. Not sure what scope you have on the rifle but that should work fine for that. Granted, it's your money but there are several other less-expensive options that will do this just fine. Again, your money your decision. Good luck with whatever you select.

 

[tqlcvnch]

Thanks for the replies so far. Also, anybody knows how does the Kowa 884 Prominar hold up against the listed ones? Is Kowa a Japanese made product?

Anybody heard of EagleOptics.com? Are they legit? Counterfeit?

 

[Javelin]

Kowa 883 and 884 are the same scope body just angled vs straight (your preference). Kowa - although I have used an older Kowa scope all through my competition days - is not my favorite scope mfr but they do have the best glass in the prominar series .... if you're not stepping up into the swaro 95mm HD atx body (at a cost of $4.5k mind you). I just like swarovski better as a personal preference as their customer service & resale valued are second to none.

Eagleoptics is good to go.

I also agree that you don't need this level of glass for spotting bullet holes. The differences in quality of these types of glass are more for bird watching. I do however recommend you look at a swaro 65mm HD scope (or that swaro 80mm HD scope) if you want to save some money. You could always throw a vortex mil reticle eye piece on it at 30x fixed and save money, weight, and be versatile. Can't do that with Kowa or the swaro atx

 

[arob]

I have both the Meopta S2 and 2 of the Swarovski STS 80 HD scopes. In my opinion they are all three very good, but I believe the Meopta is better than both Swaros. Most people that look thru the scopes agree with that also. I love Swarovski stuff, but if buying today, I would definitely buy the Meopta. Just my 2 cents.
Aaron

 

[Javelin]

Yeah, Meopta are good. Resale isn't there like the others mentioned but they are amazing glass too. The Swarovski HD scopes don't become game changers until you step into the atx series with swarovision & field flatteners.

 

[tqlcvnch]

Seems like the consensus is against the Swarovski in terms of quality per $2000 - $2,500 budget?

So what about MeoStar S2 vs Kowa 884? Does the Kowa 884 have more potential for telephoto with a Canon 5D Mark III?

 

[Javelin]

Nothing compares to kowa but swarovski.

Here is the run down by cornell university on optic quality. Just remember that swaro atx 95mm had not been released so it would have taken first most likely as the lens of the massive 95mm swaro would resolve better than the 88mm Kowa. But again the prominar lenses are really superb.

All About Birds : Spotting Scope Review

 

[Javelin]

Oh and if when your kowa goes tits up be prepared to break out your wallet. Swarovski will be much more likely to take care of you and even if they have to replace something you broke that isn't covered by warranty it most likely won't cost you much (if any). That's my only concern with my kowa scope... I know it's damn pricey to fix should shit happen & I have to send it in.

 

[tqlcvnch]

But I thought Kowa USA offers Lifetime Warranty. Isn't that true, Javelin? I've always thought we gotta send the Swarovski to Europe in case things happen. The distance and back & forth shipping would have been much more hassle than to deal with Kowa USA don't you think?

 

[arob]

Swarovski and Meopta will both take care of you if something happens.

 

[Chiller]

forgive my ignorance and I will throw the Vortex Razor in this mix. I think the dollars spent vs product......had pressed to beat it.

 

[Keith E.]

Kowa 883 fan here. I bought mine used on this site. Kowa 663 also gets good reviews along with many others. I'd recommend going to a match in your area and checking out some of the different options that are available. Shop around and don't get in a hurry.

Good Luck,
Keith

 

[arob]

The Vortex Razor spotter is a lot of scope for the money if you can find a deal, but it is not in the same class as Swarovski, Meopta, or Kowa, that is just the way it is.

 

[Erud]

Oh and if when your kowa goes tits up be prepared to break out your wallet. Swarovski will be much more likely to take care of you and even if they have to replace something you broke that isn't covered by warranty it most likely won't cost you much (if any). That's my only concern with my kowa scope... I know it's damn pricey to fix should shit happen & I have to send it in.

This has not been my experience with Kowa, and I have not heard this type of story from anyone else but you. I had some gorilla break the eyepiece off my 821 a few years ago trying to "zoom in" (it was a fixed eyepiece) and Kowa fixed it on their dime in 10 days. I have a friend who has a Kowa spotter that's at least 30 years old and the model was discontinued long ago. He was very distraught that he couldn't find an eyepiece for it, as the one he had for it had permanently fogged up somehow. I told him about my experience with them, and he called to ask if they could help. He sent it in and got it back a few weeks later with a new eyepiece for $0 charge. I've had the 821, a 601, an 883, and currently have a 773. The 883 is the best there is, but the 773 gives u p very little to it and is the perfect compromise of size and optical quality for me. I used a Swaro ATS 80HD for 3 years, but sold it without regrets after getting the 883 and 773.

Also, Eagle Optics is as good as it gets. Free next day FedEx shipping on expensive orders and prices better than just about anyone else.

 

[truth]

The Vortex Razor spotter is a lot of scope for the money if you can find a deal, but it is not in the same class as Swarovski, Meopta, or Kowa, that is just the way it is.

The Razor HD spotting scopes are damn fine glass. I've spent countless hours behind them at this point.

Crappy hand held no mount iphone pic of targets at 700 yards through a Vortex.

For like $1300 you be all in with a dslr mount which leaves room for a nice tripod and ball head and still be under $2500.

 

[tqlcvnch]

What magnification level is that, Truth? I have a Vortex HD II 1-6x that I like a lot. But I thought for an extended distance a "finer" resolution would help a lot, especially when I plan to attach my DSLR onto it (spotting scope) for some wildlife shots.

Thanks everyone who comment on my thread. Can't express enough appreciation for your time giving me inputs & options. I've contacted Scott from Liberty Optics as a few threads in here have mentioned (his name), and he's giving me the new Kowa TSN-884 with 25-60x wide-angle eye piece for a very good price! Scott's really taking care of Snipershide members well , and my research on the topic in this forum is well paid off.

 

[truth]

I don't recall.

 

[LukeNCMX]

As others have pointed out you don't need to spend anywhere near as much as you're planning to see impacts at 300 yards. My Mark 4 12-40x60 would be total overkill for that task. It is an awesome piece of gear that is an absolute pleasure to use.

If you don't need the FFP reticle I would get the golden ring version for your application without hesitation.

 

[Javelin]

But I thought Kowa USA offers Lifetime Warranty. Isn't that true, Javelin? I've always thought we gotta send the Swarovski to Europe in case things happen. The distance and back & forth shipping would have been much more hassle than to deal with Kowa USA don't you think?

Don't get me wrong, I love Kowa's optical performance and cost wise is much more bang for your buck than the high end Swarovski ATX HD. Kowa (like Leica) will lifetime warranty any workmanship defects. The problem with scopes I've personally seen is that freak wind that topples it over, or whatever accident that causes it a 4' drop the ground. Kowa (like Leica) I've found charges quite a bit to fix their stuff. Swarovski doesn't usually charge but if they do it's not hundreds of dollars. Swaro doesn't have the "no fault" warranty like vortex and the time to fix bins I know is like 3 weeks turn around. But I've personally seen Swarovski send new bins to folks who have unintentionally broke their optics due to accident or had 20 year old bins that lost their luster due to age & use. Swarovski wants a lifetime customer vs just a lifetime warranty but the buy in is quite high and in my eyes worth it for their binoculars. You're not going to get that from Kowa (or Leica). They will fix them but it will cost you big $. That is why I've kind of wrote those two off and Vortex & Swarovski are the two manufacturers that I personally trust.

But I'm also in the camp where I bought my swaro EL HD bins as there is a big difference between manufacturers in bins but in spotters, though the differences are apparent between Vortex Razor HD & Swarovski HD ATX/Kowa 883, the cost is huge for those slight optical improvements that may or may not benefit a competition shooter but a bird watcher would be more likely to enjoy. I've not been able to quite justify the cost vs benefit between these two as I don't spend half a day or nearly much time behind a spotter like I do my bins (probably 10-1 use ratio). But for an RO or someone who recreationally uses a spotter for bird identification of a specific rare species where the coloration of feathers seen for only an instant on the inside of the wings is very important then it might make sense to go with the very top end spotter.

And just to add a parting thought for the OP to think about is to really understand what the purpose is for the optic. Seeing bullet holes at 300m any of those listed will do it. If something like seeing holes at 800m+ (at least in Texas) is going to be hard as mirage close to the ground will dissolve the image. For this application I would recommend something else like a camera system as it's cheaper and will work a hell of a lot better as atmospheric conditions don't interfere. For hunting I would look at a little swaro HD 65mm or vortex HD (even though vortex is heavier) and skip swarovski ATX & Kowa 883 unless you just gotta have the very best equipment sitting on your firing line for competitors to stare at and that's also possibly justifiable if for only ego bragging rights........but if you still can't shoot well after all that amazing equipment you'll at least be confident in knowing you'll be seeing your misses much more clearly than anyone else with their spotters lol