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2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

S

Skyking

Skyking
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 13, 2009
745
28
Provo, Utah
www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com
#1
Well I know there are a lot of really upset guys out there waiting for there builds. I never did get one of the 2009 builds, but I have done 6 other builds with George in the last year. Yes there was a lot of frustration on these as well. We got the last one from him just the other day. Wanted to try and give you guys something to help pick up your spirits, and give you hope. Once you do finally get your guns I think you will be happy with the way they shoot.

This is my brothers 243AI that George did. We supplied him with the action. Its a BigHorn Arms short action. These actions are second to none! I believe hands down. Best actions out there. This is the 2nd one out of three that we are doing. First one was on my 7saum AI. The other one is going on a 7wsm. The finsh machine work on them is so nice makes you not even want to paint it. The NP3 on the bolt, and floating bolt head are so smooth. Cant say enough about AJ over at BigHorn Arm's.
The bottom metal on this I believe is the same that will be coming on the Hide builds.

So I took it out Friday in the rain to try and get some rounds down the barrel so we can send this one off as well to get melonited. I melonited my 7saum and love it. The range was packed with all the deer hunters blowing the dust out of there guns for the start of the hunt on Saturday. So I loaded up 50 rounds using 40g of 4831sc, A-max 105's CCI-BR2 primers, Lapua brass, and did not even worry about seating depth. Just jammed them into the lands good. Just want to get some fire formed brass. Well this thing is already a shooter. Took three shots to get it on paper. Then I did 5 shots clean for the first ten rounds. Then 10 shots between cleaning. Came home cleaned the barrel really really good to send off Monday mourning. After the meloniting is done, we will coat the barrel, bottom metal, and action. Not sure what color yet.

26' Schneider Barrel
Mcmillian A3 stock.
Bighorn Arm's action
Jewel triger
Precision Shooting Sports bottom metal
Precision Shooting Sports muzzle brake.(Now called Aztek Arm's)
NightForce 5.5-22x50
Bighorn Arms 20 MOA rail
Holland pined recoil lug

M1530001.jpg

M1530003.jpg

M1530010.jpg

M1530008.jpg

M1530009.jpg

M1530013.jpg

M1530014.jpg


Here is one of the 5 shoot groups during fire forming.
M1530016.jpg
 
#8
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

Thanks guys!
The 243 is really a fun round to shoot. Never shot it before. Can't wait to get some long range shoots with it. We will have to get some video shots of it.

I really don't know how you could not be a fan of the Bighorn. Obviously you have not shot one. Yes the bottom metal need some finishing work, as does the rest of the gun. Muzzle brake needs to be timed, and gun needs to be bedded. We are thinking that gray would be a good color too.
 
#10
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ya he has plenty of time to work on other peoples rifles just not the 15 group builds he owes us for nearly 2 years! </div></div>

I understand, but this is not that thread. Take it back over to the appropriate one.
 
#11
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ya he has plenty of time to work on other peoples rifles just not the 15 group builds he owes us for nearly 2 years! </div></div>

I understand, but this is not that thread. Take it back over to the appropriate one. </div></div>

It doesn't matter to me, but it seems like he was baiting those guys with title of thIs thread.
 
#12
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ya he has plenty of time to work on other peoples rifles just not the 15 group builds he owes us for nearly 2 years! </div></div>

I understand, but this is not that thread. Take it back over to the appropriate one. </div></div>

Or you're going to...?

OP boasts that he has had six completed in one year, and our group has one completed in two years.

Yeah, that pisses me off.
 
#13
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

No I'm not gonna make anyone but KY338 has pages of his complaints in the other 16 page thread. Complaining or making shitty comments in this guys thread isn't gonna get HIS rifle here any faster. Be honest I don't think anybody wants to hear the complaining anymore. Either take it up legally or wait on the rifle.

Don't get me wrong they have every right to be upset but damn, you can only complain so much before that shit gets old. I'm just saying if your gonna complain dont do it in this guys thread, go do it where everyone else is. Just saying.
 
#15
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No I'm not gonna make anyone but KY338 has pages of his complaints in the other 16 page thread. Complaining or making shitty comments in this guys thread isn't gonna get HIS rifle here any faster. Be honest I don't think anybody wants to hear the complaining anymore. Either take it up legally or wait on the rifle.

Don't get me wrong they have every right to be upset but damn, you can only complain so much before that shit gets old. I'm just saying if your gonna complain dont do it in this guys thread, go do it where everyone else is. Just saying. </div></div>

Honestly bro, did you think everyone was going to stand up and say "Cheers"

No one likes their nose rubbed in it, and I'm sorry I'm sure the OP had good intentions, but, it is what it is.
 
#16
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

Guys I was really just try to give you some hope that someday you can get your guns out of George , and that he has no left town. Some of my builds were order this time last year, and just got them a few weeks ago. It's not been smooth by any means. They also where not build with the same parts the Hides are built off. I know your frustration. I know that a few of the guys have there Hide builds now. Thought if I can show you how well this thing can shoot may help make the wait a little easier. Just trying to bring you guys some light at the end of the tunnel.
 
#17
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

Sky you got to understand that you may have had 6 rifles done in a year, but there are a lot of members here waiting over 2 years for thier rifles. This does not look good whatsoever for George. I don't have a dog in the fight, but with how his customer service is and how he has handled the build, I know I will never do business with him. And you had to know that you would piss guys off, as your two lines were purposely aimed at those members.
 
#18
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

Definitely looks like a nice rifle, and shoots awesome.

But as is being said,it does not look good when you have 15 people waiting over 2 years for rifles, trying over and over to contact the builder... with almost no contact or updates, ignoring calls, messages, voicemails, etc.. and ONE person gets SIX rifles finished in one year.. apparently easily able to get in contact with the builder.
 
#19
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No I'm not gonna make anyone but KY338 has pages of his complaints in the other 16 page thread. Complaining or making shitty comments in this guys thread isn't gonna get HIS rifle here any faster. Be honest I don't think anybody wants to hear the complaining anymore. Either take it up legally or wait on the rifle.

Don't get me wrong they have every right to be upset but damn, you can only complain so much before that shit gets old. I'm just saying if your gonna complain dont do it in this guys thread, go do it where everyone else is. Just saying. </div></div>

You dont have a dog in this fight chief... piss off
 
#21
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This ain't the build thread, you fuck off.

Stop whining like a little bitch and file a civil lawsuit or STFU and wait on your rifle. </div></div>

Or what?! Your going to lecture on other peoples threads? How many rifles has George built for you? How many group buys have you been in? What is your serial number on the group buy? It would be against the law to speak publicly of an ongoing lawsuit.

You are really racking up the intelligent comments today.

Why don't you pull your head out of your ass and get off the internet for awhile, it wont miss you I promise.

To the OP: I think your intentions were good, but no matter how you shake it this was going to be poorly received by the guys in the 09 Build. It also proves on multiple levels who George really is. I wont go any further with it.
 
#22
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

Ky when you do get it from the looks of it. It will be nice.

And pusher since you have no "dog in fight" why don't you send ky the money for the build when he gets it you get your money, try loosing 3k dollars and not being pissed.

Op looks like an awesome build, big horn action looks neat lots of savage in that action.
 
#23
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

Everyone knows by the endless post in the other thread you don't have your rifle. I don't have a rifle in the group buy, never
Implied I did. This is not the other thread, the same freedoms that afford you to constantly complain are the same freedoms that allow me to post how annoying your complaining is.

All I was saying is, your complaining in the OP's thread was just that, complaining. You had nothing to say, good or bad about his rifle or offer your opinions on it. I just think it was a DOUCHE BAG comment to make.

Your just mad because I called you out on it. Your the only one who's getting there jockeys in a wad. Like I said before stop whining, all your doing is dwelling on it. You have every right to be upset but you have posted your opinion plenty of times in the other thread, you sound like a broken record.

If you got a lawsuit going I hope it works out for everyone involved but shitting in this thread doesn't mean your rifles gonna get here any faster or your lawyers are gonna work any harder.

I was just saying, if you want to talk by PM we can cause we are really messing this guys thread up, and I have find what I called you out on so I won't post here anymore.

Respectfully
Taylor
 
#24
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everyone knows by the endless post in the other thread you don't have your rifle. I don't have a rifle in the group buy, never
Implied I did. This is not the other thread, the same freedoms that afford you to constantly complain are the same freedoms that allow me to post how annoying your complaining is.

All I was saying is, your complaining in the OP's thread was just that, complaining. You had nothing to say, good or bad about his rifle or offer your opinions on it. I just think it was a DOUCHE BAG comment to make.

Your just mad because I called you out on it. Your the only one who's getting there jockeys in a wad. Like I said before stop whining, all your doing is dwelling on it. You have every right to be upset but you have posted your opinion plenty of times in the other thread, you sound like a broken record.

If you got a lawsuit going I hope it works out for everyone involved but shitting in this thread doesn't mean your rifles gonna get here any faster or your lawyers are gonna work any harder.

I was just saying, if you want to talk by PM we can cause we are really messing this guys thread up, and I have find what I called you out on so I won't post here anymore.

Respectfully
Taylor </div></div>

HAHA ok taylor..... Since you think you know it all, I will PM you and listen in on your higher level of intelligence.
 
#25
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skyking</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys!
The 243 is really a fun round to shoot. Never shot it before. Can't wait to get some long range shoots with it. We will have to get some video shots of it.

I really don't know how you could not be a fan of the Bighorn. Obviously you have not shot one. Yes the bottom metal need some finishing work, as does the rest of the gun. Muzzle brake needs to be timed, and gun needs to be bedded. We are thinking that gray would be a good color too. </div></div>

Skyking, I notice that the Bighorn has a floating bolt head. Do you think that helps with accuracy in some significant way? I notice that many Savage owners report excellent accuracy, equal to a $3,000 bolt gun. They also often state that their rifles are not very sensitive to changes in loading.

I suspect that the floating bolt head has some important advantages that are not fully realized. The MRAD has one, so it can be a switch barrel, and it is also extremly accurate with factory ammo.
 
#26
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: c1steve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Skyking, I notice that the Bighorn has a floating bolt head. Do you think that helps with accuracy in some significant way? I notice that many Savage owners report excellent accuracy, equal to a $3,000 bolt gun. They also often state that their rifles are not very sensitive to changes in loading.

I suspect that the floating bolt head has some important advantages that are not fully realized. The MRAD has one, so it can be a switch barrel, and it is also extremly accurate with factory ammo.


</div></div>

Yes I think the floating bolt head helps. Not only do you have a custom trued up action, but the floating bolt head take it just that little extra bit. The difference in accuracy may not be as noticeable as in a factory Savage that has not been trued up in the first place. I also think the other things that AJ has done to the action helps as well. They all add up to make one sweet action. AJ has also come out with a lighter weight true drop-in version of his action. It's a prefect marriage between the Savage and Rem 700 action. Once you get the chance to hold or shoot one of these action. You will never go back. Frank from SH did his latest build of one.
 
#28
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skyking</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: c1steve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Skyking, I notice that the Bighorn has a floating bolt head. Do you think that helps with accuracy in some significant way? I notice that many Savage owners report excellent accuracy, equal to a $3,000 bolt gun. They also often state that their rifles are not very sensitive to changes in loading.

I suspect that the floating bolt head has some important advantages that are not fully realized. The MRAD has one, so it can be a switch barrel, and it is also extremly accurate with factory ammo.


</div></div>

Yes I think the floating bolt head helps. Not only do you have a custom trued up action, but the floating bolt head take it just that little extra bit. The difference in accuracy may not be as noticeable as in a factory Savage that has not been trued up in the first place. I also think the other things that AJ has done to the action helps as well. They all add up to make one sweet action. AJ has also come out with a lighter weight true drop-in version of his action. It's a prefect marriage between the Savage and Rem 700 action. Once you get the chance to hold or shoot one of these action. You will never go back. Frank from SH did his latest build of one. </div></div>

If Bighorn would make a version with an integral scope rail, the action would be stiffer on top. Surgeon makes them, the Bighorn would almost be ideal if it had this feature. People would pay for it, big time.

-Steve
 
#29
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

Skyking,

I can see that Savage rifles can be as accurate as a custom, and that the floating bolt head is part of the reason. However I repeatedly hear that the Savages are not nearly as finicky as to charge weight. They can shoot very well with many different powder loads, etc.

What is causing this? I suspect that in a two lug action the bolt itself may be vibrating and some how interfering with the burn. If it was only barrel vibration, I would expect that heavy barrels would be able to run almost any load with good accuracy, and that light barrels would be extremely picky. This does not seem to happen, and that is part of why I suspect something else may be happening.

If the bolt has 4-5" hanging behind the lugs, could easily vibrate. If the PSS actions, with a rear lug, act similar to floating bolt head actions, this would indicate that possibly the bolt is doing something. Do you know if George's actions act this way?

-Steve
 
#30
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

An integral scope rail is not a huge selling point for me. Some of the most accurate actions on the market do not have integral scope rails for one good reason. People like options....

Take a look at some of the best made actions: Templar, Rebel, Alpha 11, and now the Big Horn. They all give the end user plenty of options in the MOA choice of their scope rail.

Don't corner your customers. Let them pick! Surgeon is a great action, one of the best but I still like the option of going from a 20 moa to 30 moa if need be.
 
#31
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

I agree. Actions like the Alpha 11 are double pinned and have 8-40 screws so unless you drop it off the empire state it's not going anywhere.

Sometimes having a part like that, that can break away can be better. For whatever reason if somehow you could break the base away that's probably all you would have to pay for to get it back running. If damage or warp a action with integral rail, that's it, you have to replace whole action. That's highly unlikely for either but was just making a point I guess.
 
#33
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

I have a lefty version a few numbers lower than this one (14 actually) and I really like the action.

My rifle is one that I built on AJ's action and it shoots 140 Amax's into the 1's and 2's after 1200rd on throat and over 2700 on the barrel.

I have never gotten a straight answer from anyone that says "I don't like it" as to WHY they don't like it.

I do agree with KYS338 that the integral rail isn't necessary; nice, but not necessary. The double pinned lug makes little difference vs. a single pinned lug if done properly. The way that AJ runs the single pinned lug I actually like better than the way most do single or doubles. If the user/smith somehow breaks the pin it is not captive in the action, it falls free and a new pin can be installed without any issue.

I have a 20 MOA rail on mine at this point; doing it all again I'd put a 30 MOA rail on it because there is a lot of wasted travel under the turret in my Razor. For now it all shoots so well that I just don't bother.

My experience with the product and the customer support has been nothing short of exceptional. AJ is great to deal with and I have more actions coming as do a couple friends of mine.

Skyking- That's a very nice rifle and it shoots really well. Congrats on owning such a nice tool.
 
#34
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNoise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would rather have an integral recoil lug than rail. You won't be fiddling with your recoil lug...your rail you may want to change if you need more/less MOA. </div></div>

By having an integral lug and rail you remove <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">potential</span></span> negative accuracy and precision variables. And the bolt handle being TIG welded is something that I'm not a fan of either. Yes, I know, that thing isn't going anywhere, but you still have a variable that may cause the bolt handle to be off. Just my two cents.
 
#35
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNoise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Skyking, do you know the length of the magwell on the Bighorn? I was looking at the Alpha Type 2 mags (2.985 OAL), and it would be cool if I could run those.</div></div>

Hey Thanks guys. I cant wait until it is all done.

Yes it does. Those are the mags that I run in my 7wsm and 7saum. You do still need to make the small notch out of the action for the bullet to clear just like on the Rem action. No big Deal!

The Bighorn is already such a beefy action as is, that I don't think you would really gain anything with the integral rail. Other then just making it heavier. Most guys are looking for lighter weight action.. I think that is way AJ is making the Sportier lighter version. Plus the added cost to machine a action with the integral lug and rail will just add to what we would have to pay. Less is best for me. But that is why they make Ford's and Chevy's. We all have different taste.

Bighorn actions did go 1st 2nd and 3rd in the 2011 Steel Safari shootout.

Here is a few more pictures of the action. This is next not my GAP Rem 700 7wsm action

M1310008.jpg

M1290007.jpg

M1290006.jpg

M1290005.jpg

M1290002.jpg

 
#37
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

What if you want a hinged floorplate, and a closed top receiver to support a heavy barrel?

If the action was made stiffer in some fashion, the port could be opened up more. An integral scope rail would make it stiffer, and allow a larger port. As in Surgeon 591.

They could also make a flat bottom action, to match M70 footprint. This would allow a larger mag well cut. Then an AICS sized mag could be used, or internal mag.

I think this is a super action, but it has it's limitations and could be made even better.
-Steve
 
#38
Re: 2009 Snipershide builder BigHorn 243AI

Well it's a shooter. Got the barrel back from MMI form meloniting. No change in accuracy. I never did test to see what the speeds were before sending the barrel out. But its not lacking speed wise. End up going with sniper gray for the color.

Started working up a load at 100 yards for the gun. Tried 4831SC and H1000. Both shot good, but H1000 was the winner. End up using 48g H1000, Lapua brass,CCI-BR2 primers, Berger 105 Vld's 3315Fps. Went out last Saturday to the 1020 yard spot to see how they would do there, and to get some video. Only took 19 MOA to get on target. He did shoot a 4 inch 3 shot group, but getting some with flat primer. End up going back and reloading some with 47.5 and 47.3 of H1000. All pressure signs went away. End up going with 47.3 3280Fps.

4 shots of 47.5
M1600001.jpg

4 shots of 47.3
M1600003.jpg

M1590001.jpg

M1590003.jpg

M1590004.jpg

M1590005.jpg

M1590007.jpg
 
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