2021 Nightforce ELR Steel Challenge

[tbeckstrand]

Just alright eh? If I were a betting man I'd say you got 12th, and at this match that's a lot more than alright. Congrats, and good shooting! I know Cal Zant used 4DOF last year and got 4th, so that's a huge part of why I went with it. That and the fact that before I bought a Kestrel I was using 4DOF on my phone so seemed like a natural transition. My one gripe is their custom curves are fairly limited compared to AB. AB has way more bullets. I actually used the custom curve for 180VLDHs for my 180 Hybrids, worked pretty well. Anyways, I appreciate the info about your experiences since you've used both.

Thank you and you're welcome. Yeah, the bullet library is the one thing that could use some improvement.

 

[schmi015]

So next question(s),

Who used the AB Mobile lab and did they feel the new information was more accurate than their trued original “kestrel” which should be accurate from testing and shooting at home? (Brand new load, weapons don’t apply)

if the unit is good for 12-1400 and the KD was farther does anyone believe they got more hits than they would have at their home range?

(A new range with new wind will always create a more difficult environment so we should expect a lower hit percentage)

Do you think it’s a benefit to have them on site when you are at a new site because exterior ballistics change enough from home range to comp range?
Or
would it take you more than 10 rounds (the amount of rounds used at Mobile lab) using your original solver and dope to rectify?

thanks

So a bit of an outlier here, I shot the match with a trg .338 pushing 300 grain bergers at 2800fps. Really just went to work on my wind calls. I have a well developed and proven handload. I got my PDM from the lab. All my previous dope was from low lands and humid virginia using JBM which was spot on out to a mile. The first stage I used the AB data and first round for each target was shooting over by .2-.3 mils i ended up holding off the diff on the second shots. For the rest of the match i used the jbm data and did fine with my vertical calls/impacts. Need work on wind calls. Like anything its best to verify.

 

[hic28]

I did ok at the match.

Lol, you did very ok! Good shooting with ya

 

[tbeckstrand]

View attachment 7664460

Lol, you did very ok! Good shooting with ya

I feel the same. I hope we squad together again next year.

 

[archangel485]

So a bit of an outlier here, I shot the match with a trg .338 pushing 300 grain bergers at 2800fps. Really just went to work on my wind calls. I have a well developed and proven handload. I got my PDM from the lab. All my previous dope was from low lands and humid virginia using JBM which was spot on out to a mile. The first stage I used the AB data and first round for each target was shooting over by .2-.3 mils i ended up holding off the diff on the second shots. For the rest of the match i used the jbm data and did fine with my vertical calls/impacts. Need work on wind calls. Like anything its best to verify.

Good to know it didn't work out for everyone who tried it. I'm really happy with how I did at the match without the lab data, but I was very curious about it. If @tbeckstrand got 12th without it I'm thinking it wasn't critical to do well at the match, but I do find it interesting. Maybe Hornady would show up with their gear to do a similar lab for us 4DOF users?

 

[hic28]

Maybe Hornady would show up with their gear

Hornady should be ashamed with how many eldms and Atips were doing this...

 

[THEIS]

View attachment 7664687
Hornady should be ashamed with how many eldms and Atips were doing this...

 

[Geno C.]

View attachment 7664687
Hornady should be ashamed with how many eldms and Atips were doing this...

Heard lots of reports of that. Not anywhere near the first match to have a bunch either

 

[brianf]

might sound dumb?

we all know that a certain mfg has issues with bullets blowing up

why is anyone still shooting them?

seems foolish to me, buy a berger and be done with it.

 

[northern50]

might sound dumb?

we all know that a certain mfg has issues with bullets blowing up

why is anyone still shooting them?

seems foolish to me, buy a berger and be done with it.

The real question is, why haven’t those people slowed the twist rate of their barrels to accommodate? I lost a couple last year, changed twist this year, no issues. Or do we only believe that the twist rate needs to be stupid high cause that’s what we read on the internet? I don’t know shit but the Miller stability formula does. Two seconds of math and I know what sfpm the jackets on my 230’s blew up at, make an adjustment to twist, stay around 1.5 on the Miller formula and move on.

 

[hic28]

So what is the correct twist rate for a 6.5-147gr bullet at 3050fps?

 

[archangel485]

View attachment 7664687
Hornady should be ashamed with how many eldms and Atips were doing this...

Was that happening to you this year? That's been an issue for quite a while to my knowledge, at least since last year's match but maybe longer. As other posters mentioned I figured either Hornady had it resolved by now, everyone was slowing their twist rates or velocities down, or just changed bullets.

 

[hic28]

Was that happening to you this year? That's been an issue for quite a while to my knowledge, at least since last year's match but maybe longer. As other posters mentioned I figured either Hornady had it resolved by now, everyone was slowing their twist rates or velocities down, or just changed bullets.

Not me. I switched to berger, Lapua and nosler.

few guys in our squad were blowing up Atips and I got a lot of it on video.

amazing how the only change was a bullet and now nothing of mine blows up. But it’s the barrel and the person loadings fault.

 

[Lowlight]

My print out from my new build

Factory Hornady 225 300 PRC

 

[Schw15]

My print out from my new build

View attachment 7664807

Factory Hornady 225 300 PRC

Big difference from there g7 .391 they claim

 

[NoLegs24]

The real question is, why haven’t those people slowed the twist rate of their barrels to accommodate? I lost a couple last year, changed twist this year, no issues. Or do we only believe that the twist rate needs to be stupid high cause that’s what we read on the internet? I don’t know shit but the Miller stability formula does. Two seconds of math and I know what sfpm the jackets on my 230’s blew up at, make an adjustment to twist, stay around 1.5 on the Miller formula and move on.

LOL. You do know that guys are still blowing them up, using Hornady's minumum recommended twist rates, right??

 

[ken4570tc in WY]

Was that happening to you this year? That's been an issue for quite a while to my knowledge, at least since last year's match but maybe longer. As other posters mentioned I figured either Hornady had it resolved by now, everyone was slowing their twist rates or velocities down, or just changed bullets.

I saw this happen in 2007 at the Colorado Rifle Club 1000BR competition. Shooter was a Hornady employee with a new rifle and ammunition, he had many grey ghosts. They (Hornady) simply won't pull their heads out and admit that they are manufacturing substandard bullets. My suspicion is jackets are too thin. This has gone on too long, I won't shoot Hornady!

 

[Mk32784]

The real question is, why haven’t those people slowed the twist rate of their barrels to accommodate? I lost a couple last year, changed twist this year, no issues. Or do we only believe that the twist rate needs to be stupid high cause that’s what we read on the internet? I don’t know shit but the Miller stability formula does. Two seconds of math and I know what sfpm the jackets on my 230’s blew up at, make an adjustment to twist, stay around 1.5 on the Miller formula and move on.

What's easier... buying a new barrel, getting a smith to chamber it, break it in...

Or just go buy some Berger bullets and go shoot it without worrying about it.

 

[archangel485]

I saw this happen in 2007 at the Colorado Rifle Club 1000BR competition. Shooter was a Hornady employee with a new rifle and ammunition, he had many grey ghosts. They (Hornady) simply won't pull their heads out and admit that they are manufacturing substandard bullets. My suspicion is jackets are too thin. This has gone on too long, I won't shoot Hornady!

I've shot plenty of Hornady bullets with success, but never in a magnum long range caliber which seems to be the issue (based on my limited understanding). I had no issues with 140 ELDMs in a creedmoor, but obviously that's pretty slow compared to some of the hot 6.5s out there. I have shot a bunch (a couple thousand or so) 20 caliber v-maxes at around 3900fps in a 10 twist barrel with no issues and the RPMs on those are well above most fast 6s and 6.5s out there. I did go with Bergers for my 7SST after hearing some of the blow up issues and hearing the issues Dale Mack was having with ELDMs last year, just didn't want to take the chance of any issues. They cost substantially more but I have no regrets, I shot a great match, my personal best.

 

[seansmd]

Mine were 6.5CM actual Hornady ELDM in a standard 25"inch 8 twist barrel.

No hot doggin, no aggressive twist. Factory ammo, normal twist, running slow. They have issues and won't own up to it.

 

[archangel485]

Mine were 6.5CM actual Hornady ELDM in a standard 25"inch 8 twist barrel.

No hot doggin, no aggressive twist. Factory ammo, normal twist, running slow. They have issues and won't own up to it.

Wow, very interesting. Before you I don't believe I ever heard of any one having the issue with a creed so that's why I figured it was mostly the faster twist, faster velocity stuff. I had heard from some they thought it was just the newer lots but who knows.

 

[seansmd]

Wow, very interesting. Before you I don't believe I ever heard of any one having the issue with a creed so that's why I figured it was mostly the faster twist, faster velocity stuff. I had heard from some they thought it was just the newer lots but who knows.

Sorry mine were 6.5prc eldm @2950 , but standard twist, others have seen it with 6.5cm.

 

[archangel485]

Hi,

Yea, with a larger 30cal - 338cal that Infinition system "MIGHT" log 1300yd accurately.....

To do the 6-7k you will need something similar to this....Specifically the Weibel MFTR-2100/36-80
View attachment 7654254

Sincerely,
Theis

Are you utilizing or do you plan on using this type of data for the genesis app?

Also curious if anyone you know of used Genesis at the match?

 

[northern50]

What's easier... buying a new barrel, getting a smith to chamber it, break it in...

Or just go buy some Berger bullets and go shoot it without worrying about it.

Considering there isn’t a 245gr Berger to be found anywhere. It was way easier to take the new slower twist barrel from the toolbox drawer over to the lathe, cut some threads and shove a reamer in it than to switch a bullet. Especially since the 230’s run good and I have pretty good data on them.

 

[Steel head]

View attachment 7664687
Hornady should be ashamed with how many eldms and Atips were doing this...

I saw this a lot with my 7mm with eldm and a tips.