Sidearms & Scatterguns 2024 shooting goals. Maybe the Pirate will help

[308pirate]

I got to something like 72%, just shy of A class, without much dry firing. I found it boring and couldn't put in the time. I probably just didn't want it bad enough.

I started in CO in 2020. I got to A class in June of 2021. 2022 was a rough year for me due to personal reasons so I didn't make the progress I wanted. Doubled down in 2023 and made M class last month. I have every intention of making Grand Master in 2024.

As to dots on pistols, I find it hard to believe that'll ever grow on me. I'm 40 years old and I don't want to learn something that different.

I'm 57 and transitioned to RDS on my pistols when I was halfway to 54. I am always hungry to improve my performance. Every pistol I own for serious use has a reflex sight on it.

 

[SanPatHogger]

I got to something like 72%, just shy of A class, without much dry firing. I found it boring and couldn't put in the time. I probably just didn't want it bad enough.

As to dots on pistols, I find it hard to believe that'll ever grow on me. I'm 40 years old and I don't want to learn something that different. But I guess if I ever go back, I'll have to, since sights are dinosaurs now.

I'm 41. Just got my first red dot and it IS different.

I found that I can draw a pistol with open sights, point at a target and I'm on. But I'm not really on. The gun is pointed TOWARD the target, but the sights are not on, I'm correcting while pushing out and once I am on the target. It is almost subconscious to line up the open sights. How long is it taking? I don't know, I never timed myself

Now draw and point the pistol with a red dot. Where is the dot? Is this thing on? Oh, I'm low/left/high/right.... Now I have to practice actually pointing the gun almost with no sights and have to be good enough to be on target with nothing. The red dot confirms that I am either good or not. It's harder to point at a target with a dot at first, but dry firing has helped a lot.

Also, open sights are not dinosaurs and they are not going away. There are just more things/toys to be had.

 

[Alabusa]

To take a deer at 500+ yards. Hard to find a place to hunt that offers that range in Alabama.

To shoot more USPSA matches. I had to work over 40 Saturdays in 2023 and didn't get to shoot much at all. I would like to make M in 2024.

 

[308pirate]

Now draw and point the pistol with a red dot. Where is the dot? Is this thing on? Oh, I'm low/left/high/right.... Now I have to practice actually pointing the gun almost with no sights and have to be good enough to be on target with nothing. The red dot confirms that I am either good or not. It's harder to point at a target with a dot at first, but dry firing has helped a lot.

The dot shows you just how much your draw sucks. It does not lie.

Also, open sights are not dinosaurs and they are not going away. There are just more things/toys to be had.

Iron sights are basically an afterthought on rifles today. It won't take that long for them to become the same on pistols.

I'm almost 20 years older than several of you. Get on with it.

 

[SanPatHogger]

That dude talks the talk, I’m not sure he walks the walk……

Have you been shooting the Texas carbine pistol/rifle matches?

Texas Carbine 2 gun match January 14th. I'm planning on being there.

 

[SanPatHogger]

I got the Ben Stoeger Dryfire Reloaded book. Read through the whole thing. So far I have been concentrating on my draw and presentation with the red dot the most. Been doing it enough that I almost feel like I can't do it wrong. This last week or so I've been adding on a lot of magazine swaps. It was funny to me to totally miss the mag well and do whatever other clumsy thing I did. Dropping a mag, grabbing a fresh one and inserting it is almost harder than figuring out how to draw the pistol.

Anyway, so far so good.
Just wanted to say Thank You

 

[WindstormSCR]

@308pirate thanks for the resources in this thread, my focus is 2GACM, but the stuff here is still helpful and relevant.

there any restrictions on 5.7x28? Thinking about running my M&P 5.7 I carry in limited optics div for some additional practice.

Sadly the Steyr L9A2 MF isn't on the production list yet or I could run that as straight production, and get more out of it since it's my choice for 2GACM

 

[308pirate]

@308pirate thanks for the resources in this thread, my focus is 2GACM, but the stuff here is still helpful and relevant.

there any restrictions on 5.7x28? Thinking about running my M&P 5.7 I carry in limited optics div for some additional practice.

Sadly the Steyr L9A2 MF isn't on the production list yet or I could run that as straight production, and get more out of it since it's my choice for 2GACM

Minimum bullet diameter for any USPSA division is .355" nominal. Forget the 5 7.

I'm not exactly sure how NROI (USPSA umpire organization) would interpret the various Steyr M9 derivatives like yours. At the local match level nobody will care if you run it in Production as long as the modifications are in line with Production rules. The big ones are no crazy external mods like slide rackers and thumb rests; no optics, and NO MAGWELLS OR COMPENSATORS.

Production division is limited to 10 rounds in the magazines until January 31st then it goes up to 15 rounds after that. If you want to fill up the magazines you need to choose Limited division. If you have a magwell you need to choose Limited. If you have a comp then Open division is your only choice.

 

[WindstormSCR]

Minimum bullet diameter for any USPSA division is .355" nominal. Forget the 5 7.

I'm not exactly sure how NROI (USPSA umpire organization) would interpret the various Steyr M9 derivatives like yours. At the local match level nobody will care if you run it in Production as long as the modifications are in line with Production rules. The big ones are no crazy external mods like slide rackers and thumb rests; no optics, and NO MAGWELLS OR COMPENSATORS.

Production division is limited to 10 rounds in the magazines until January 31st then it goes up to 15 rounds after that. If you want to fill up the magazines you need to choose Limited division. If you have a magwell you need to choose Limited. If you have a comp then Open division is your only choice.

noted, I'll probably run the L9A2 in local then since it's completely stock (trigger is damn nice out the box) just need to get a holster that doesn't require a light

 

[308pirate]

noted, I'll probably run the L9A2 in local then since it's completely stock (trigger is damn nice out the box) just need to get a holster that doesn't require a light

Just so you know very few people are shooting USPSA divisions that require iron sights these days.

Don't be surprised if you're the only one in Production or only one of 5 or 6 in Limited.

It all depends on what you want to get out of the sport.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

This training methodology is completely different, and incredibly more effective than the dumb drill mentality that permeates the tactical training world.

Tim Herron seems like a solid no nonsense no theatrics kinda guy. Just info, in an understandable format. He's done classes local to me a few times, someday I'll get to one of them.

 

[308pirate]

Tim Herron seems like a solid no nonsense no theatrics kinda guy. Just info, in an understandable format. He's done classes local to me a few times, someday I'll get to one of them.

I took his signature class in 2021. Well worth it.

Ignore the female drama and insecurity

 

[308pirate]

I got the Ben Stoeger Dryfire Reloaded book. Read through the whole thing. So far I have been concentrating on my draw and presentation with the red dot the most. Been doing it enough that I almost feel like I can't do it wrong. This last week or so I've been adding on a lot of magazine swaps. It was funny to me to totally miss the mag well and do whatever other clumsy thing I did. Dropping a mag, grabbing a fresh one and inserting it is almost harder than figuring out how to draw the pistol.

Anyway, so far so good.
Just wanted to say Thank You

Very cool

You're on the path. Be very self-analytical.

 

[Downzero]

Minimum bullet diameter for any USPSA division is .355" nominal. Forget the 5 7.

I'm not exactly sure how NROI (USPSA umpire organization) would interpret the various Steyr M9 derivatives like yours. At the local match level nobody will care if you run it in Production as long as the modifications are in line with Production rules. The big ones are no crazy external mods like slide rackers and thumb rests; no optics, and NO MAGWELLS OR COMPENSATORS.

Production division is limited to 10 rounds in the magazines until January 31st then it goes up to 15 rounds after that. If you want to fill up the magazines you need to choose Limited division. If you have a magwell you need to choose Limited. If you have a comp then Open division is your only choice.

Production division is dead anyway, as is Limited. I don't think anyone cares what someone does in those divisions and they'll be gone from the sport soon.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Production division is dead anyway, as is Limited. I don't think anyone cares what someone does in those divisions and they'll be gone from the sport soon.

Isn't SS still hanging around? Seems like that should die before the others? Or Revo, or Limited10..

 

[Modoc]

I still run SS Major when I get out, but part of that is because I don’t want to retool for only shooting a couple of times a year and a couple of minor mods and I can use the same setup for SASS Wild-bunch matches.

Saying that though, I am Defenitely in the minority at our local club.

 

[308pirate]

Production division is dead anyway, as is Limited. I don't think anyone cares what someone does in those divisions and they'll be gone from the sport soon.

I think Production will kill limited now that it goes to 15 rounds in two weeks (nobody wants to fuck with 40 any more) but it will never be as popular as it once was.

However, neither division will be dissolved by USPSA any time soon. And most likely never. We still have revolver, don't we?

 

[Downzero]

I think Production will kill limited now that it goes to 15 rounds in two weeks (nobody wants to fuck with 40 any more) but it will never be as popular as it once was.

However, neither division will be dissolved by USPSA any time soon. And most likely never. We still have revolver, don't we?

Limited was, for the vast majority of USPSA history, the most popular division.

We still have L-10 and Revolver, but in those days where they were kept past their usefulness, dots were not allowed outside of Open. Now that the board has decided that all they care to encourage is open and open lite, having numerous iron sight divisions is pointless. The beginning of the end was getting rid of the Production equipment rules, e.g., allowing magnets, allowing people to carry their firearms/mags wherever they want on the belt, and allowing weapon lights to swallow the weight requirements. Allowing a dot outside of open was the nail in the coffin (well, that and now allowing a dot on a limited gun, which will kill Limited and Production the rest of the way. Contextually, the comparison you're making is apples to oranges.

 

[308pirate]

Limited was, for the vast majority of USPSA history, the most popular division.

Some people can't stop living in the past

Now that the board has decided that all they care to encourage is open and open lite, having numerous iron sight divisions is pointless.

It may be pointless to you. But not to those who still want to compete with iron sights.

The beginning of the end was getting rid of the Production equipment rules, e.g., allowing magnets, allowing people to carry their firearms/mags wherever they want on the belt, and allowing weapon lights to swallow the weight requirements.

Oh no.....God forbid that we acknowledge this is a sport and not some tactical Timmy fantasy or Fudd idea of where holsters should be.

Allowing a dot outside of open was the nail in the coffin (well, that and now allowing a dot on a limited gun, which will kill Limited and Production the rest of the way. Contextually, the comparison you're making is apples to oranges.

Allowing optical sights outside of open was an inevitable result of direction in which modern PRACTICAL handguns were headed. You could argue that CO rules result in impractical handguns for carry but that is besides the point. The division should have been named (and should be renamed) Production Optics because that is what it really is.

And if practicality is a criteria for keeping or killing divisions, open would be first in line to die.

USPSA would become irrelevant if it had stuck to the old timers idea of unchanging divisions and the insistence that optics remain in open. How soon that irrelevance would happen is debatable. But it would come.

 

[Gustav7]

The beginning of the end was getting rid of the Production equipment rules, e.g., allowing magnets, allowing people to carry their firearms/mags wherever they want on the belt, and allowing weapon lights to swallow the weight requirements. Allowing a dot outside of open was the nail in the coffin

Carrying mags at the hip or further back is the most fudd rule ever and assumes people only wear tucked in shirts with beer bellies and Texas star belt buckles.
Especially since the majority of concealed carriers under the age of 50 carry appendix some or all of the time. My spare mag is right at the front where my gun is.

With the advent of better holsters, most carriers I know carry Glock 19 sized or full size pistols and a spare mag that is 17rd factory or extended(21ish rds).

 

[308pirate]

Especially since the majority of concealed carriers under the age of 50 carry appendix some or all of the time.

Hey hey now......ageism isn't cool

 

[stefan73]

I have trust issues after Remington's safe safeties and Sig P320's. Nothing rides above the boys that could go kerplow when I don't want it to.

 

[Gustav7]

Hey hey now......ageism isn't cool

I said the majority of

 

[Downzero]

Carrying mags at the hip or further back is the most fudd rule ever and assumes people only wear tucked in shirts with beer bellies and Texas star belt buckles.
Especially since the majority of concealed carriers under the age of 50 carry appendix some or all of the time. My spare mag is right at the front where my gun is.

With the advent of better holsters, most carriers I know carry Glock 19 sized or full size pistols and a spare mag that is 17rd factory or extended(21ish rds).

The Production Division was intentionally made restrictive to add challenge to the game. USPSA is not training for a concealed carry situation, it's a game where you're drag racing with a gun. Once the restrictions that made Production unique were eliminated, it became limited-10 minor, which made both of them pointless. Once dots were allowed outside of open, and now single action guns with dots outside of open are allowed, the concept of the production (and really all of the iron sight) divisions were destroyed.

Years ago, allowing 8 shots in Revolver also ruined the Revolver Division, rendering everyone's competition revolver obsolete overnight. If we were starting from scratch, maybe we wouldn't have made any of these rules, but creating an arms race is something USPSA successfully avoided for decades. Then the BOD/NROI got stupid and now the game has morphed into something else, something unrecognizable from its origin.

Most of the people I know who are carrying concealed, even law enforcement, are not carrying anything close to a full size gun or a Glock 19. Maybe 20 years ago that was the case. Nowadays, anyone outside of the tactical timmies are carrying little guns like Shields, Sig P365s, and their competitors. And, FWIW, long slide guns were the norm in Production for the vast majority of the history of the division.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Production and Single Stack removed from the game entirely very soon, along with L-10 that should have been eliminated 20 years ago when its purpose sunsetted.

 

[Gustav7]

The Production Division was intentionally made restrictive to add challenge to the game. USPSA is not training for a concealed carry situation, it's a game where you're drag racing with a gun. Once the restrictions that made Production unique were eliminated, it became limited-10 minor, which made both of them pointless. Once dots were allowed outside of open, and now single action guns with dots outside of open are allowed, the concept of the production (and really all of the iron sight) divisions were destroyed.

I was referencing IDPA, which is marketed as "concealed carry" training competition. That being said, I disagree entirely on USPSA. Drag racing with a gun would entail only focusing on speed, but as you know, it's hit factor scoring. Maybe Open is more like drag racing but shooting your carry gun in USPSA is only going to make you a better practical shooter. Short of training active shooter or "CQB" training LOL, there's nothing thats going to prepare you more for an actual shooting scenario that something like USPSA.

I think iron sight divisions will always be a thing, because it's still a realistic way to shoot a pistol. Is it optimal? no...but its still applicable and people still want to compete using irons. Now that production has moved to 15rds, I think you'll see more guys shooting it, including myself. I carry and shoot competition with dots, but iron sights are still a good, and fun way to practice and compete.

Most of the people I know who are carrying concealed, even law enforcement, are not carrying anything close to a full size gun or a Glock 19. Maybe 20 years ago that was the case. Nowadays, anyone outside of the tactical timmies are carrying little guns like Shields, Sig P365s, and their competitors. And, FWIW, long slide guns were the norm in Production for the vast majority of the history of the division.

Now sure who you're hanging out with but 90% of the shooters I know carry Glock 19 sized pistols the majority of the time. I suppose 43X and 365 Macros might be thrown in there, but P365's and Shields are always a compromise and are generally less forgiving than Glock 19's and similar pistols.
If carrying a 4" M&P 2.0 makes me a "tactical timmy" then carrying a P365 makes you a small old lady lol. I think neither of those are true, but my M&P 2.0 (and my P01) is easily concealed in a t-shirt and are only marginally more noticeable than my P365xl.