Sidearms & Scatterguns 20ga Shockwave?

[300wmSlick]

So I tried using the search bar on here before I posted this to see if someone else had brought this up before but couldn't find anything.
My question is if anyone knows if it would be legal to take a Mossberg 590 chambered in 20ga and cut it down (barrel and tube) to the same size as the 12ga Shockwave and put the same handle on it as well? Or would that fall under AOW (Any Other Weapon) category?
The reason I'm wondering is because my girlfriend lives with me but works a slightly different shift and her two little girls live with us as well. She's had tendonitis surgery on both hands and couldn't handle a Shockwave chambered in 12ga but I think she probably could in 20ga.
Any thoughts or advice is helpful, thanks in advance.

 

[CrazyHorse_mk14]

Idk about mossberg but you can get a rem tac 14 in 20 gauge. As far as cutting one down... NO

The main part of the loophole the shockwave slipped through was that it came from the factory like that. How would “they” know, I couldn’t say but it’s not worth it to me.

A pistol grip with 18” barrel isn’t that much bigger anyway. If I recall correctly the shockwave is something like 26 1/2” overall where a cruiser type shotgun is 28”

 

[Downtown]

Actually, I believe it would be a SBS, short barreled shotgun, not a AOW, because you would be shortening a weapon originally sold with a shoulder stock. Bad idea.

You could likely find a better defensive weapon than a hip fired shotgun, even in 20 gauge.

 

[Downtown]

I have a wheelchair bound friend, who could not handle any recoil at all, ask advice on a defensive weapon. We ended up equipping him with a Ruger Charger with a folding pistol arm brace. A short handy 10 inch barreled .22 that could be "incidentally" shouldered. It fits on his chair inconspicuously and is available 24/7. A .22LR would be my last choice for defense, but he handles it very well, shoots accurately, and has 25 of those little hollow points available. Ouch!

 

[...]

1) ide advise against a shockwave in any configuration for anyone with hand issues.

ide look for something with a stock......you can get a mossberg/remington 20g with an 18" barrel and a youth stock and thatll be plenty short enough for HD

hell, you can get one of those AR15 colapsable stocks for your shotgun and keep it compressed.


2) just because you buy a 12G, doesnt mean you have to shoot full power loads through it......they make reduced recoil loads that match the performance of 20G.......hell, you can handload shotshells easily to any power level you want.

 

[300wmSlick]

I didn't know they made the tac 14 in a 20ga variant. Will probably just go the collapsed/youth stock route but figured I would ask about the other way. Thanks for answering the questions!

 

[CrazyHorse_mk14]

Now I’ve sometimes wondered about replacing the stock barrel on the shockwave with a full size and adding a stock. Mostly for the versatility and I have mossberg parts laying around.

As far as I can see there’s nothing identifying the shockwave other than I presume the serial numbers. So it would be kinda neat to have a stubby that you could lengthen for specific purposes.

The novelty kinda wore off on them for me though. It’s way less shotgun so untill the price settles way down I’m not into them. Also, there’s some shady area as far as carrying it. Texas is clear that shotguns are g2g however with the shockwave/tac14 classified as a firearm it’s kinda of open for interpretation. I mean can it be carried concealed, would one need a LTC ?

The atf kinda intentionally left their classification open. Calling it a “firearm” means it could be held under all firearm classifications or none as far as carry is concerned.

I haven’t heard of anyone having trouble with it yet, but the only people I know that has them use them more as range toys rather than a dedicated truck/carry/brush gun.

 

[300wmSlick]

I live in Indiana and have a concealed carry permit so I'm better off than some states/places out here haha

 

[CrazyHorse_mk14]

It gets murkier when the ATF letter states that it’s designation could change if it’s concealed on the person.

Carrying open- firearm
Carrying concealed - A.O.W

http://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Shockwave-Letter-from-ATF-3-2-17.pdf

 

[hermosabeach]

Years back, the 20’gauge was a great choice.

Then low energy / low recoil 12 Gauge Ammo cake to the market

7/8 ounce bird loads

1,100 ft/s 8 pellet

The 12 gauge low recoil Ammo is as soft as 20 gauge.

Plus it is easy to find low recoil 12 gauge in 00 buck and slug

Finding 20gauge 00 and slug can be iffy

Let her shoot some of the low recoil stuff from a 12 and let her tell you if it works

 

[fb40dash5]

Now I’ve sometimes wondered about replacing the stock barrel on the shockwave with a full size and adding a stock. Mostly for the versatility and I have mossberg parts laying around.

As I recall, part of the magic of it avoiding being an SBS or AOW hinges on it not only not originally being equipped to fire from the shoulder (the reason it's not an SBS- a "shotgun" is designed to be fired from the shoulder) but also remaining that way... it can't have "ever had a stock on it". IOW you could buy one, throw a stock and 18" barrel on it just fine (though that + having the 14" barrel could also be constructive possession of an SBS) but it then technically could never again wear the 14" barrel (without registration). How they'd know or prove it if you swapped back and forth at home I dunno, nor do I plan to find out.

From what I've read you can also take a pistol grip model and turn it into a Shockwave/TAC14 legally, but again pay close attention to the technicalities. A normal pistol grip takes it <26", and I'm sure having said plain pistol grip not installed and a 14"-barreled gun with the Shockwave *could* be considered constructive possession of an AOW. Several reviews I read of both mentioned something along the lines of "if you buy one, don't go dicking around adding or changing components unless you know exactly what you're doing."

 

[isofahunter]

Run aquila mini shells in a 12ga shockwave is a low recoil way. I would not do any conversions to an existing shotgun.

 

[...]

see now i dont know how that jives with other NFA prescient......where its legal to take a pistol....put an 16" barrel and shoulder stock (making it a rifle)........but then being legally able to turn it back to a pistol again.

i think the voodoo about the shockwave is that it is a firearm because it came from the factory in its current getup.......not that it can never be changed.

is there a difference between a pistol/ rifle and a firearm/shotgun conversion?........i honestly dunno

the whole NFA is a cluter fuck.....and this is a perfect case of why it needs to be abolished.

 

[fb40dash5]

i think the voodoo about the shockwave is that it is a firearm because it came from the factory in its current getup.......not that it can never be changed.

Attribute #3 in the Shockwave ATF letter states "(never had a shoulder stock attached)". That seems to be interpreted as saying that if it DOES get a shoulder stock attached, whether at manufacture or later, it stopped being a whatever-the-hell-it-is and started being a "shotgun", with the implication that if it then had a 14" barrel, since it's legally a "shotgun" now, it would be a short-barrel shotgun.

The whole "it matters what it was made as" thing is a CF for sure. Aside from "don't make other stuff (with lower purchase requirements) into a pistol" I agree it shouldn't make a stack of crap what it was, just what it is now. See above about the BS potential of being accused of "constructive possession" of an AOW for owning one of these and some random (compatible) uninstalled pistol grip adapter, at least if you happened to not have another (compatible) shotgun.

 

[...]

ah so the shockwave is legally the same as a virgin AR lower.....its just a firearm until its built into a rifle/pistol/ shotgun......and once it is, it can never go back to being just a "firearm"....hence why you cant convert it to a shotgun, then back to the shockwave with out it technically being an SBR


god, all those talking about "common sense" gun laws should start with the NFA........because it makes 0 sense what so ever.

 

[Ric O'shay]

SB Tactical seems to have added the shockwave into the put a brace on it team.

 

[MWM-5150]

For someone that has hand and wrist problems, a hand-held shotgun is probably not the best idea...
If it has to be a shotgun, she should really get something with a stock, so her whole body can absorb and distribute the recoil, not just the wrist...

 

[CrazyHorse_mk14]

Yea NFA is retarded!

The 590 with “brace”

https://www.sb-tactical.com/product/590-sbl/

I’m not gonna be the guinea pig on it lol

 

[fb40dash5]

Yea NFA is retarded!


I’m not gonna be the guinea pig on it lol

Big Green is doing it from the factory!

 

[300wmSlick]

For someone that has hand and wrist problems, a hand-held shotgun is probably not the best idea...
If it has to be a shotgun, she should really get something with a stock, so her whole body can absorb and distribute the recoil, not just the wrist...

My thought on it was she could brace it off of her hip/thigh and be alright. A high adrenaline situation makes it more difficult to focus on your aim, hence the idea of potentially a shotgun.
I had thought about the low recoil loads or even the half-sized shells to cut down the recoil, but I haven't been around them yet so I was unfamiliar with how they would/could tone down the kick.

 

[300wmSlick]

How the hell did I get an emoji in my reply?!
Damn fat fingers lol

 

[Strykervet]

It's legal to do IF it starts life as a PGO AND if it's legal in your state to do this.

In WA, an attorney or judge asked the AG here to define what a "shotgun" is. In short, it goes by the NFA definition, and NFA doesn't consider PGO's "shotguns". A shotgun, by definition, has a buttstock, period. A PGO never had one, and hence it's not a shotgun.

So in WA, and according to NFA, OAL is all that matters and it has to be 26". Barrel length is undefined for a PGO. You can have a four inch barrel and an 18" broom handle and it's STILL a PGO as long as it's 26".

Mossberg used to sell the parts necessary to do the conversion minus the birdshead grip, but I understand some people were doing this where it wasn't legal and some people were getting in trouble so they stopped and started selling the factory gun where legal.