Just curious to hear some folks’ experience and opinions on using a .22 Caliber cartridge for PRS style matches. With the newer bullets having BCs upwards of .5 and some interesting wildcats out there, I’d like to start a discussion. Obviously impacts and misses would be harder to spot but given the recoil reduction and component savings would a .22 cal PRS rig be viable? I’ve read of a few guys running .22BR in more local style matches and doing well but with chamberings like the 22GT, Long throated 22-250, 22LRV, 22x47, 22 Dasher, etc I think this may continue to trend upwards. I also like the idea of using ~30-35gr of powder vs 40-45. Also, other than the rareness of bolt face size, what’s the downside of using something like the 220 Thunderbolt or 22 PDK and the like? Poor brass quality? Anyhow, what are everyone’s thoughts?
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Precision Rifle Gear .22 Caliber Cartridge for PRS/NRL
- Thread starter JDKrowe
- Start date
The decreased powder charges was just one of the benefits I liked over cartridges like the 6x47, 6XC, 6 Creed and wasn’t a deciding factor. My end goal was a .22 cal Precision rifle and lesser powder charges was just one of the attributes. The movement to smaller calibers and cartridges is just something I’ve been observing over the past few years and was just seeing what people’s opinions were. Do you think 6mm is the limit? Or will competitors continue to push the envelope with .22 caliber? I’m sorry if I mis stated in my original post what my goal of the discussion was.
I think the BR may be a good option. As far a BC advantage goes, the only bullets I can think of that would offer about the same BCs to the larger counterparts would be the 90SMK, 95SMK, 90 VLD, 90 A-Tip, and the 85.5LR Hybrid. After that, my guess would be that you’d need roughly the capacity of the 22BR to get velocities around 3000-3150fps range. Just a guess but curious as to what others might think as well.
223 Ackley gets my vote. Cheaper to run, less recoil and better barrel life. Seems like the 22br runs 88's at 3000ish from that 22br thread. Mine runs between 2840-2860. At 1k, that's .2 mils extra wind with a 5mph wind.
I have a rifle chambered in 223AI and while it’s impressive, I don’t think it can match the 22BR and it’s variants or the 22GT or 22LRV etc. The extended barrel life is a serious perk however and the price of good brass
(~ $70/100pcs.) is nice too. I’ve found that with the Ackley case though, that it doesn’t really show obvious pressure signs until it’s close to critical mass lol.
With the exception of the rare case head/bolt face size (.441”) of the 220 Thunderbolt, Hagar and it’s variants, I feel like these would be solid options given their case capacities. I suppose the availability of high quality brass would be an issue as well. I feel like they would balance barrel life with case capacity nicely. I’m not really sure why but after talking with some guys about chambering something like the 22 Hagar, PDK, WOA, Beast and similar, the recommendations all said that while they were good for gas guns etc, they would not be suited to PRS/NRL type competition.
I’m kind of curious about the 22LRV from West Texas Ordnance but even with the extra neck length I’m concerned that barrel life would be pretty poor. If there is something like a 22x47 lapua but with a longer neck that would be interesting to see. So far given what is currently on the market, I feel like the 22GT is the best option.
I’m kind of curious about the 22LRV from West Texas Ordnance but even with the extra neck length I’m concerned that barrel life would be pretty poor. If there is something like a 22x47 lapua but with a longer neck that would be interesting to see. So far given what is currently on the market, I feel like the 22GT is the best option.
Ive done extensive testing and comparison here on the hide with the 220 Thunderbolt, 223rem, 224V in both gasser and long throated bolt guns. Different barrels, bullets, powder, gas gun with a mag friendly throat/reamer and long freebore bolt gun friendly reamer.
The 220 Thunderbolt in TL3 (224V bolthead) using MDT mags is just awesome. Barrel life is excellent and accuracy is excellent. 90SMK @ 3000fps out of a 26" Bartlein 1:7 are awesome to 1000yd with the recoil of 223rem. Barrel life is around 3000rd with a Bartlein. The downside is the brass. Its super easy to make, just run 6mm Hagar Hornady through a 220 Thunderbolt FL sizing die. No neck turning or fireforming. Initial loads shoot as good as formed loads. Problem is dies. I had LOTS of interest over the last few years, I put together a Mighty Armory group buy and found everyone to be tire kickers when it came time to pay up so that died quickly. Oh well. I have dies, lifetime supply of brass and a few barrels. One of my favorite guns to shoot. Last time I had it out, 5 shots sub 0.5moa at 950yds with 90smk.
My vote today for brass and dies availability....22BR.. Its VERY close to 220 Thunderbolt and is what I used for load data when testing 220 Thunderbolt in a bolt gun initially.
www.snipershide.com
The 220 Thunderbolt in TL3 (224V bolthead) using MDT mags is just awesome. Barrel life is excellent and accuracy is excellent. 90SMK @ 3000fps out of a 26" Bartlein 1:7 are awesome to 1000yd with the recoil of 223rem. Barrel life is around 3000rd with a Bartlein. The downside is the brass. Its super easy to make, just run 6mm Hagar Hornady through a 220 Thunderbolt FL sizing die. No neck turning or fireforming. Initial loads shoot as good as formed loads. Problem is dies. I had LOTS of interest over the last few years, I put together a Mighty Armory group buy and found everyone to be tire kickers when it came time to pay up so that died quickly. Oh well. I have dies, lifetime supply of brass and a few barrels. One of my favorite guns to shoot. Last time I had it out, 5 shots sub 0.5moa at 950yds with 90smk.
My vote today for brass and dies availability....22BR.. Its VERY close to 220 Thunderbolt and is what I used for load data when testing 220 Thunderbolt in a bolt gun initially.
224 Valkyrie vs 220 Thunderbolt
224 Valkyrie vs 220 Thunderbolt Valkyrie on the right is at max charge, compressed and heavy bolt lift at 2900 and trashing brass. Cartridge on left should do 3000 easy with 4-5gr more powder capacity but we will see. Bighorn Origin 6.8 Bolt Head Bighorn 12 point nut MDT ACC Jewell MDT BR...
www.snipershide.com
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I really wouldn’t mind having a .224 Valkyrie bolt gun but I think it lacks the capacity I or other PRS guys would need to drive the 90 class bullets up and around the 3000fps mark. As far as I’ve seen, and I could be wrong, but the capacity is similar to a long loaded 223 or 223AI.
If I were to get a .441” bolt face, I think I’d probably go with the Thunderbolt. And that’s taking nothing away from the PPC and it’s inherent accuracy.
This is the kind of information I’m looking for. Thanks Padom.Ive done extensive testing and comparison here on the hide with the 220 Thunderbolt, 223rem, 224V in both gasser and long throated bolt guns. Different barrels, bullets, powder, gas gun with a mag friendly throat/reamer and long freebore bolt gun friendly reamer.
The 220 Thunderbolt in TL3 (224V bolthead) using MDT mags is just awesome. Barrel life is excellent and accuracy is excellent. 90SMK @ 3000fps out of a 26" Bartlein 1:7 are awesome to 1000yd with the recoil of 223rem. Barrel life is around 3000rd with a Bartlein. The downside is the brass. Its super easy to make, just run 6mm Hagar Hornady through a 220 Thunderbolt FL sizing die. No neck turning or fireforming. Initial loads shoot as good as formed loads. Problem is dies. I had LOTS of interest over the last few years, I put together a Mighty Armory group buy and found everyone to be tire kickers when it came time to pay up so that died quickly. Oh well. I have dies, lifetime supply of brass and a few barrels. One of my favorite guns to shoot. Last time I had it out, 5 shots sub 0.5moa at 950yds with 90smk.
My vote today for brass and dies availability....22BR.. Its VERY close to 220 Thunderbolt and is what I used for load data when testing 220 Thunderbolt in a bolt gun initially.
224 Valkyrie vs 220 Thunderbolt
224 Valkyrie vs 220 Thunderbolt Valkyrie on the right is at max charge, compressed and heavy bolt lift at 2900 and trashing brass. Cartridge on left should do 3000 easy with 4-5gr more powder capacity but we will see. Bighorn Origin 6.8 Bolt Head Bighorn 12 point nut MDT ACC Jewell MDT BR...
22 ARC... it's basically a 22 PPC... I'm trying the 6 ARC in an Origin w/ a 26" bbl and 105s now... neck down grendel brass and you can have a longer neck
Can't get enough powder in the cases without trashing brass to compete with 220 TB, 22BR, etc
Built one with 6.5 twist on a Remington action the thing shot great with factory ammo. Didn't really have any brass to reload and ended up selling it to a friend . I have two more 6.8 bolts getting ready to build another now that Starline shipped me some brass.
At a local club match three shooters were using them to a thousand yards and were doing well nothing like the fast 6mm's though . For most guys being able to run into any good ammo store to get rounds in a pinch is a plus . Resale is another thing for guys that flip rifles often .
Guys used to form 6XC from 22-250 (and 6.5CM)
But with the cost and quality of Peterson 6XC from Tubb its a no brainer
I see that now Tubb brass is .65 cents ea not worth the trouble and waste forming it .
How much extra barrel life do you feel the extra .050” in the neck over the .22-250 provides? Would it be safe to assume 3-500 on top of the .22-250? Obviously it depends on how you treat the barrel: i.e. no super long strings of fire, relatively avg pressure loads, heavier bullets, etc. Trying to figure out if it would keep acceptable target accuracy for 1500-1800 rounds if treated right?
I think more than just neck length is cartridge shape in general
Clayton has reports of barrels around that life. And then guys 'outshoot' 6Dasher in 1200 rounds
I have roughly 1200 on mine I think with no loss in speed or accuracy
Also.... have you measured the water capacity of this case? Would it be about the same as the parent 6XC?
Been doing some thinking and was curious if anyone has wildcatted the 6x47 Swiss Match down to 22 caliber? Seems like it would slot in case capacity above the dasher and BR variants but below the XC, Creed, Lapua. Also that long neck should help out with barrel life
6-45ai. 223ackley, necked up to 6mm. 87gr Hornady VMAX over 25.x gr of ADI BM2 powder. 2940fps.
I call it the 6-troll. Works great for club matches and training. To make it I take free range brass, new primer, powder, seat a pill. That's it. The boat tail necks the brass open. For resizing I have a redding type S, and that's it.
The seater die is from the redding 223ai set, slightly drilled to take a bigger pill.
I call it the 6-troll. Works great for club matches and training. To make it I take free range brass, new primer, powder, seat a pill. That's it. The boat tail necks the brass open. For resizing I have a redding type S, and that's it.
The seater die is from the redding 223ai set, slightly drilled to take a bigger pill.
That’s the conundrum I suppose. While the brass that’s out there is apparently outstanding quality, I’m sure it’s expensive to source. Would probably have to go with custom dies as well. Did a brief and not very thorough search for dies and didn’t get many results other than the lapua x47. Really seems like it would be a promising wildcat though, and with good stable brass... could be loaded many many times and shouldn’t have to worry too much about primer pocket loosening
You aren’t wrong there... That would make it easier on myself, but I was just looking to go the route less traveled. I’m a firm believer that always pushing boundaries and limits is good for everyone. I feel like it gives people more options in the long run. Before the 6GT was made I’m guessing it’s was easier just to run a 6x47 Lapua, 6XC, or 6 Creed.
No clue how it would fare in matches, but the 22-204 is a worthy substitute for the 223 AI. I've been shooting a 24 inch 8 twist for a couple years now.
Personally, I'll stick with the 6 Creed for the rare occasions I make it to a match. Much easier to spot my own misses.
Personally, I'll stick with the 6 Creed for the rare occasions I make it to a match. Much easier to spot my own misses.
As someone that has a 22BR and a 22 Creed with my own reamers. If I had to choose one and do it all over again I'd do a 22x47 because there isn't better brass than 6.5x47 Lapua brass, the case capacity is better suited for the velocity limits with intermediate speed powders (H4831, H4350, etc), now the brass is more affordable and available since less people shoot x47 anything. Downside being you'd probably want to turn necks but wouldn't have to with a correctly speced reamer.
I'd say 22gt but I don't know how it actually performs with the powders I'd want to use to help with barrel life. Also, Hornady brass isn't good and I've had a bad experience with Alpha brass as well as other people I know that aren't sponsored by them or seeking a sponsorship.
I'd say 22gt but I don't know how it actually performs with the powders I'd want to use to help with barrel life. Also, Hornady brass isn't good and I've had a bad experience with Alpha brass as well as other people I know that aren't sponsored by them or seeking a sponsorship.
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