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22 Creedmoor or 22-250?
- Thread starter BigTy313
- Start date
Do you reload or are you planning to shoot factory ammo? What’s your barrel twist (assuming you purchased already)?
If hand loading, I’d go 22 Creedmoor for the added horsepower over the standard 22-250. Plenty of 6 Creed brass out there to neck down, or if you can find it, there’s Hornady, Peterson, and Alpha 22 Creed. The 22 Creedmoor will feed much better from a mag set up compared to the tapered case of the 22-250.
You can find loaded ammo for the 22 Creed, but it’s a little pricey and not widely available right now. You may have better luck tracking down 22-250 ammo if you’re only planning on shooting factory ammo.
If hand loading, I’d go 22 Creedmoor for the added horsepower over the standard 22-250. Plenty of 6 Creed brass out there to neck down, or if you can find it, there’s Hornady, Peterson, and Alpha 22 Creed. The 22 Creedmoor will feed much better from a mag set up compared to the tapered case of the 22-250.
You can find loaded ammo for the 22 Creed, but it’s a little pricey and not widely available right now. You may have better luck tracking down 22-250 ammo if you’re only planning on shooting factory ammo.
Look at these two drawings carefully... pay special attention to the neck-shoulder junction and total length. The Creedmoor is an improved modern 22-250.
Depends if you want to shoot heavies or not and if you are going to shoot factories ir load your own. Starting from scratch with no brass dies etc. I’d say 22Creed would get the nod.
performance is going to be pretty close. I switched to the 22 Creed as its got a few benefits but if i had lots of 22-250 stuff I’d keep shooting it. Modern bullets and math has pushed me towards the heavies and i have foundthe 22 Creed to be a bit better for what I’m using it for. Both are great rounds one just works better for me.
performance is going to be pretty close. I switched to the 22 Creed as its got a few benefits but if i had lots of 22-250 stuff I’d keep shooting it. Modern bullets and math has pushed me towards the heavies and i have foundthe 22 Creed to be a bit better for what I’m using it for. Both are great rounds one just works better for me.
I do hand load so not a huge deal about finding ammo. The twist is a 1;8 twist 18"long
I have an old factory Browning A bolt in a 14 twist that shoots well for a factory gun.
I wanted to shoot 90s and 95s so I put a Bighorn/proof together, 8 twist.
With the 90s I only gained 50 FPS so far over 22-250 loading.
I loaded new Lapua 22-250 cases for fire forming and was at 3170 range and very small groups.
After that my 22 creedmoor was making 3223 FPS with the 90s. I had some moving 3500 but hit pressure and no accuracy, I may need to try some different powders to get the speed I’ve seen others post.
My 8 twist wouldn’t shoot 95s so I have a 7 twist Rockcreek being spun up for the 95s, I’m still waiting on that one.
I’m sure I could play around and find something faster, but I liked the small hole it shoots for groups at 3223.
It shot very well out to 900 yds the last time I had it out.
I’m hoping for 3150 FPS with the 95s in the new barrel.
Someone mentioned feeding issues with the 250, but I noticed the opposite, my fire forming rounds feed flawlessly, and some of my creedmoor rounds don’t feed as well unless the bolt is worked fast.
I only went creedmoor because of the prefit barrels available.
That said it’s not much faster than a 22-250, but I do like it.
I’m using IMR 4451 for powder in it.
I wanted to shoot 90s and 95s so I put a Bighorn/proof together, 8 twist.
With the 90s I only gained 50 FPS so far over 22-250 loading.
I loaded new Lapua 22-250 cases for fire forming and was at 3170 range and very small groups.
After that my 22 creedmoor was making 3223 FPS with the 90s. I had some moving 3500 but hit pressure and no accuracy, I may need to try some different powders to get the speed I’ve seen others post.
My 8 twist wouldn’t shoot 95s so I have a 7 twist Rockcreek being spun up for the 95s, I’m still waiting on that one.
I’m sure I could play around and find something faster, but I liked the small hole it shoots for groups at 3223.
It shot very well out to 900 yds the last time I had it out.
I’m hoping for 3150 FPS with the 95s in the new barrel.
Someone mentioned feeding issues with the 250, but I noticed the opposite, my fire forming rounds feed flawlessly, and some of my creedmoor rounds don’t feed as well unless the bolt is worked fast.
I only went creedmoor because of the prefit barrels available.
That said it’s not much faster than a 22-250, but I do like it.
I’m using IMR 4451 for powder in it.
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Am I wrong in thinking a big advantage of the 22 Creed would be the sharper should of the case keeping the brass from growing as much as the milder shouldered 22/250? Trimming brass is a pita and it’s always seemed to me sharper shouldered cartridges get more firings before I have to trim them. I don’t know if this is unique to my experiences or an inherent trait to cartridge case design.
I haven’t noticed mine growing much.
I do go against the grain with my bolt guns and only neck size for 6.5 and 22 creedmoor, 308, and 22-250 so mine don’t grow much. I do FL size 338 Lapua but only because I haven’t bought a neck size die, I don’t shoot that one much.
A lot of guys swear FL is way better than neck size only, to each their own, I’ve neck sized since the late 80s with no issues.
its so easy, its hard habit to break lol.
I do go against the grain with my bolt guns and only neck size for 6.5 and 22 creedmoor, 308, and 22-250 so mine don’t grow much. I do FL size 338 Lapua but only because I haven’t bought a neck size die, I don’t shoot that one much.
A lot of guys swear FL is way better than neck size only, to each their own, I’ve neck sized since the late 80s with no issues.
its so easy, its hard habit to break lol.
How does shoulder angle reduce neck length growth?
If you're concerned with length growth from shoulder datum to base, that should be fixed with headspace, no?
The problem with the 22 creed is you're limited on brass selection, unless you want to get into neching shit down and turning necks.
You could consider the .22-250 AI and that would net you more brass options and end up nearly identical in case design.
The .22-250 is already overbore and burns barrels quickly, the .22 creed will only be worse.
Take your time at the range, shoot slowly and let the barrel cool.
I think both are good choices.
FWIW, I built a .22 nosler on a .223 action I had laying around.
I get the 80's to 3100 easily with sta-ball.
Of course you can far exceed that, but really, do you need much more?
handload to reasonable speeds and extend the life (as long as you're in an accuracy node).
You could consider the .22-250 AI and that would net you more brass options and end up nearly identical in case design.
The .22-250 is already overbore and burns barrels quickly, the .22 creed will only be worse.
Take your time at the range, shoot slowly and let the barrel cool.
I think both are good choices.
FWIW, I built a .22 nosler on a .223 action I had laying around.
I get the 80's to 3100 easily with sta-ball.
Of course you can far exceed that, but really, do you need much more?
handload to reasonable speeds and extend the life (as long as you're in an accuracy node).
I’m not sure if it does. It was just my experience with what I have loaded for in my time shooting; likely a result of an overly large chamber or slightly looser headspace like you said.
I think most neck growth comes from brass flowing from expansion during firing and dragging an expander ball out through it. I don't have numbers to put to it, but I'd say 90% of the growth comes from bass flow during firing.
Totally agree.
Also you mentioned the expander ball. I polished the living hell out of mine and it reduced the neck stretching during sizing operations.
I hate trimming so much that I've sold off every 22-250 I've ever owned.
A poster above mentioned not gaining speed with the 22CM over the 22-250.
I'm pretty sure shooting an 80+ grain bullet at 3200 vs a 55 at 3600 is a huge gain in performance, just not velocity.
BTW, the light weight bullets spun faster are like grenades on colony vermin.
Body taper is still an issue. Due to the body taper the shoulder has a smaller diameter thus less area to hold the case against the flowing brass.
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I will also add the following.
I have been a 22-250 user since I first shot one in the middle '60's. Prior to Remington calling it the 22-250. It was the 22 Varminter back then. My first one was built on a twice shot out pre war Win mod 70 .220 Swift. The sn is 629.
I have shot one for over 50 years. In the past year I have gradually moved out of the 22-250 caliber. Sold cases of Lapua brass, cases of factory ammo, several rifles in 22-250 etc. I have 1000 new 22 CM cases and will be rechambering my last two 22-250's to 22 CM as soon as I can get them shipped to LRI. It's simply a better set up for the reasons listed above. Better DBM feeding, better performance with heavy bullets, less need for trimming. YMMV
I have been a 22-250 user since I first shot one in the middle '60's. Prior to Remington calling it the 22-250. It was the 22 Varminter back then. My first one was built on a twice shot out pre war Win mod 70 .220 Swift. The sn is 629.
I have shot one for over 50 years. In the past year I have gradually moved out of the 22-250 caliber. Sold cases of Lapua brass, cases of factory ammo, several rifles in 22-250 etc. I have 1000 new 22 CM cases and will be rechambering my last two 22-250's to 22 CM as soon as I can get them shipped to LRI. It's simply a better set up for the reasons listed above. Better DBM feeding, better performance with heavy bullets, less need for trimming. YMMV
So I’m not crazy in my experience with having to trim 22/250 and other similar shallow shouldered cartridges needing trimmed extremely often. . . .
I may be wrong, but I believe the case taper has a bit to do with it as well. It is much harder for the cases to grip the chamber walls with that much taper.
The 6.5SE is similarly afflicted.
PO Ackley (as in Ackley Improved, or AI cartridges) blew out the bodies of cases/reduced case taper and blew out the sharper shoulder angle. As mentioned above, the 40 deg shoulder will prevent the brass from flowing and you won't have to trim brass much, if at all. His experiments made him think the 28 degree shoulder was the most inherently accurate, though. So you see that on lots of cartridges, though I don't know how well-documented the testing and science behind it is.
I wanted a 22-250 and read up about it. The 75 Amax was my bullet of choice then and I burned up 6000 of them in 223 with great satisfaction. Reading reports of mag fed issues do to the case taper swayed me away. 243 and 105 Hybrids was what I settled on and enjoyed that as a step way up for comps.
flash forward, 22-250 is still of serious interest. I do not need 3600fps. I could just as well shoot 22-243.
flash forward, 22-250 is still of serious interest. I do not need 3600fps. I could just as well shoot 22-243.
Like my 22/250 I also had a lot of case growth with .243 as well and found I needed to trim it a bunch more than my 6.5 creed or 6.5x47.
You can take the 22-250 mag fed issues and toss them (at least for me) I don't know if guys are fuckin with the feed lips and don't need to be or what. I built a mag fed 250 about 8 or 9 years ago and never once had to mess with the feed lips or have feeding issues for that matter. Currently I have 7 custom 22-250's all with DBM, no issues not one.
I also currently built a 22 Creed with the DBM, and it's awesome also, especially if you are going to be exceeding 400 yards quite often.
I don't think you can really go wrong with either. My 22-250 is a Kelbly built gun and wears a 18in Brux barrel. Since I already have hundreds of Lapua 22-250 brass, even though I think the 22CM is a better designed case, when I toast the barrel in this one I'll go right back to another 22-250 but if I were starting from scratch I'd most likely chamber it in 22CM.
If your plan is to go short and run it suppressed, you'll love it, but be mindful they are MUCH louder, even suppressed, when they are that short.
If your plan is to go short and run it suppressed, you'll love it, but be mindful they are MUCH louder, even suppressed, when they are that short.
Yeah I've never had any issues with feeding in a 22-250 so I'm not sure why that'd even be a concern. I don't have a 22-250 that feeds through a det. mag setup but my 20-250 runs a HS Prec. det mag setup and it feeds like butter.
Hey OP, 10 years from now which one would rather have 10 years worth of knowledge and components for?
I am running an 18" bartlein 22 creed. My opinion is forget anything over 60 grains. Sure, they all work, but speed and performance on coyotes, it's hard to beat a 60 vmax or even a Sierra TMK. Using H4985, I'm getting 3700fps flat. With a 100yd zero, I'm barely over 1 Mil drop at 400yds. Forget H4350 in a short barrel, you won't get full burn.
