.22 Dedicated Upper

U

utnapishtim

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 14, 2008
215
2
51
Saint Paul, Minnesota
#1
Hi All,

I recently picket up a .22 conversion for my Sig P228, and the .22 trainer bug has bitten me.

Currently, I have a Savage MKIIFV sitting on top of a Boyds Tacticool stock, and I like it alot, because it's just so darned accurate.

Now, I think I need a .22 dedicated upper for my AR, so I can replicate shooting my MK12. So, what I'm looking for is something accurate.

I've heard nothing but great things about Compass Lake Engineering . . . but the price seems a bit high to me. Are they really worth $1,000 for just an upper? Is there a more reasonable second choice? Accuracy is key, so if I have to get the CLE, will, but I'm just wondering if anyone would go another, possibly less expensive, route.

Thanks for your advice.
 
#2
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper

I guess it comes down to this:

How would you rank these?

1 - TacSol
2 - Spikes Tactical
3 - CMMG

And what's going to be the accuracy difference at up to 200 yards with any of these vs the CLE? What about a CMMG kit wrapped around a Kreiger barrel, I would think that would be plenty accurate, no?
 
#4
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper Just got the Nordic

Just received the 20" .750 barreled version. Couldnt get out to shoot it but the fit and finsish is first class, matches mt RRA lower perfectly
 
#5
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper Just got the Nordic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rich56</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just received the 20" .750 barreled version. Couldnt get out to shoot it but the fit and finsish is first class, matches mt RRA lower perfectly </div></div>

This may seem a silly question, but since shorter barrels seem to be all the rage for center-fire precision rifles, why did you go with the 20" barrel? I'm torn between the 16" to match my M4 and the 18" to match my MK12. Do you believe that the longer barrel will make much of a difference for a .22 at 100-200 yards?
 
#6
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper Just got the Nordic

Well, I built a MK12 Mod O.
Seems it ran about $1700, with a Chinese knock off 3.5-10x40 and the PRI and ARMS doodads. Plus the Spectre.
CLE barrel and M-261 bolt.
On quiet days I can sometimes 3/8" @50yd. One afternoon tagged a 4" round plate 7/10 @200yd. Then 4/4 with the end of the box.

A Krieger or Douglas or one of the premiums on a CMMG ought be fine.

My CLE barrel was about 2 months. The non-standard length (not 20") was an extra $50, and Frank only does M-261s.

Adam at Ballistic Advantage will do what configuration you want, the time lead I don't know.


http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...016#Post1662016
 
#7
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper Just got the Nordic

I've got a CMMG dedicated forward assist upper with the Stainless bolt, action, and collar. It runs great, suppressed and unsuppressed. Haven't shot it for groups since I only shoot it with an EoTech. Got it for my 6 year old. He loves shooting it suppressed. Max he's shot it has been 250 rounds, mostly CCI Subsonics and Federal maroon bulk. Never a single malf in 250 rounds.

Never have shot more than that at one sitting.


-David
Edgewood, NM
 
#8
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper Just got the Nordic

I think if you're going for accuracy, your best bet is to go custom. If you're looking for something off-the-shelf, spikes has the Lothar Walther upgrade for their M4 upper. I have that upper, but really haven't shot mine for accuracy. In regards to function, I have put 750 rounds through mine in one sitting and it was flawless, and has been every other time I've gone out.
 
#9
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper Just got the Nordic

I also have a Nordic Component upper that I use in Steel Challenge matches. I have over 12k rounds through it, mostly Blazers. It goes bang EVERY time. I run an Aimpoint w/ 4moa dot for steel. These uppers need to be run wet to run 100%.

As far as accuracy is concerned...... While it is a great shooting rifle it in NO way could hang with a CLE custom upper.

This rifle is BIG fun.....

Keith

NC22crop.jpg
 
#10
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper Just got the Nordic

I have a spikes tactical dedicated upper and it's a great. It really limes the federal blue box ammo and runs that stuff perfectly. I have well over 5k rounds through t and I rarely clean it as it likes to run dry and doesn't have issues with the fouling. A big +1 for the spikes tactical!
 
#11
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper Just got the Nordic

Big fan of the Nordic AR22 upper I have used many of them and I have enjoyed the Nordic one the best it has ran flawlessly!! 6k worth of rounds and no issues!!

There is a 10% discount code let me know if you want it.
 
#12
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Utnapishtim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess it comes down to this:

How would you rank these?

1 - TacSol
2 - Spikes Tactical
3 - CMMG

And what's going to be the accuracy difference at up to 200 yards with any of these vs the CLE? What about a CMMG kit wrapped around a Kreiger barrel, I would think that would be plenty accurate, no? </div></div>

i have the TacSol upper, and prefer it over the others you listed because it is a true dedicated .22 upper, with a solid steel barrel just like the Colt 6721 upper, it can use the Black Dog mags or even the Ciener mags, which i do NOT like, they are all steel and have too many sharp edges, and a bitch to reload.

if you are considering a dedicated .22 upper, if i were you also consider a S&W M&P 15-22 the price difference is not that much, but if you do NOT want to fill out paper work for another gun, then the TacSol upper is the way to go. mine has a very good fit on one of my Colt lowers and is very accurate, i can pop & roll a soda/beer can beyond 100 yds.
 
#13
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper

In the nature of the questions of how many angels can dance in a head of a pin, exactly how is a TacSol more a a "true dedicated upper, with a solid steel barrel just like the Colt 6721 upper" than that of a Spikes, CMMG, M1S, Compass Lake, Accuracy Speaks, Chiappa?

There are some well thought well features of the TacSol, as are the Nordic (which I have not yet laid on an example of on).

For those interested in a functional bolt catch, you need an Atchisson clone (Ciener, Spikes, CMMG, TargetMaster, ArmaLite).

If you're in an Assist Forward, CMMG is the only game in town.
Personally, I'm not much interested.


And back to the OP, If you're interested in 200yd, you need a match barrel of some kind.
 
#15
Utnapishtim Why 20 inch barrel

To answer Utnapishtim, My .223 AR is a 24" Bull barrel varmint rifle that I want to use for my clubs "tactical" (sharpshooter) matches@300yds and NRA high power rifle matches (In the match rifle catagory)The barrel that really matches closest is the bull barrel but I thought the midweight barrel would be a good match for service rifle and .22 tactical rifle matches. I'm not a fan of short barrels. I had a Remington 600 Mohak in 308 with a 18" barrel and a Remington 700 SPS Tactical in 308 with a 20". These short barrel rifles have A)louder report B)More recoil C)more muzzle flash D)harder to hold steady off hand positions than a 22-24" barrel that I prefer
 
#16
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper

I got one of the first Nordic NC22 uppers...been very pleased with it. Accuracy has been good, reliability stellar, and very good fit and finish. The guys at Nordic are great to deal with as well. If you're looking for reliability, I'd check them out. Whichever upper you decide on I'd definietly factor in the fact if the upper uses the Black Dog Machine magazines or not. The 10,15, and 26rders can be found for $16.95 if you look around, and they work great. Drums can be found for $58.95 Much better than proprietary mags, and they're very universal.

NC22-18inch%20upper-5.jpg
 
#18
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper

I went with spikes and could not be happier it is Accurate have not tried to shoot groups since I use it as training aid to my m4. If you really want to mimic training make sure you get the CMMG bolt hold open kit and mags. Or you could just get a CMMG upper that is ready to go with their kit. Works great.
 
#19
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frog5215</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the nature of the questions of how many angels can dance in a head of a pin, exactly how is a TacSol more a a "true dedicated upper, with a solid steel barrel just like the Colt 6721 upper" than that of a Spikes, CMMG, M1S, Compass Lake, Accuracy Speaks, Chiappa?

There are some well thought well features of the TacSol, as are the Nordic (which I have not yet laid on an example of on).
</div></div>

the TacSol does NOT use a Ciener like "KIT" as do some of the others you mention, i despise the "KIT" uppers, besides i like the S&W M&P-15-22 far more than any "KIT" that you are so enamored with.
 
#20
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper

Sounds like a personal problem.

TacSol uppers have been on the market about 2 1/2 years, if I don't lose a year there. Pretty well proven, after the teething pains.

I don't see much difference from S&W's bolt from the Atchisson.
On examining the first example S&W I saw, I approved how Atchisson like it was, opposed the similarly marketed "COLT from Walther".

I guess you have a problem with the "kit".
If you don't like it, you don't like it.

So the only " genuine dedicated" .22AR besides TacSol's is the the Nordic. It's not derived from a kit; this seems to the sole criterion of worth of a .22AR.
By reports both are excellent units. I confess I have not used either, and have not yet even cast an eye upon the Nordic.
I certain would not dissuade anyone trying/buy either.

But I have had excellent experiences over the last 7 or 8 years with Atchisson bolts, some kits and, if I may so bold to say, dedicated uppers based on Atchisson bolt, as well DPMS ( oh, damn! derived from another kit!). Lets see, I've tried DPMS dedicated uppers (excellent accuracy), Kuehl Precision( modified Ciener), M1S (genuine Ciener), Compass Lake(M-261), Spike's Tactical (Atchisson derivative), mongrel Spike's barrel/M1S collar/Ciener bolt), as well kits from MAC Atchisson (long before JA Ciener came around), Atchisson MKII from WAK, USGI M-261, and Air Force, and Ciener (call it an Atchisson MKIII) and Spike's.

All work great.

Isn't interesting that Frank White selected the M-261 bolt upon to build his $1100 Service Rifle uppers. From a kit!

Is there some possibility that the cat can be skinned in a variety of manners?
 
#21
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper

I have a couple 22 uppers.

My CLE with Douglas barrel will put 10 shots inside 1/2 - 5/8 at 50 meters prone with iron sights. It has been 100% reliable with better ammo like Eley and Lapua.

I have a 12.5 inch barrel on my Nordic. It runs on just about any ammo I have put through it. Accuracy is pretty good, about 1 - 1.5 at 50 yards with Federal Automatch.

I had a Tactical Solutions upper. It was accurate and pretty reliable. But not being able to run 100% for 200-300 rounds is why I got rid of it.
 
#24
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charger442</div><div class="ubbcode-body">anyone make a side charger upper? </div></div>

Yes. LAR Grizzly has some in the works. I've had some ordered for a few months now. They're back-ordered now, but should be hitting the market before long.
 
#25
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper

All .22 conversions are blowback. Even the Air Force, which a function LOOKING gas key.
Heck, ALL .22 semiautos are blowback, notwithstanding some flown rhetoric in copy PR from Magnum Research about .22WMR rifles. "Gas assistance" my foot!
As for whether a CLE will replace your Savage, well, Savages seem to have barrels out of proportion of their price. But I have pretty good experiences with Douglas barrels.
Accuracy of rimfires dependent almost exclusively on barrel and ammo.
 
#26
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frog5215</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like a personal problem. <span style="font-size: 17pt"><span style="color: #FF0000">(YOURS ??)</span></span>

TacSol uppers have been on the market about 2 1/2 years, if I don't lose a year there. Pretty well proven, after the teething pains.

I don't see much difference from S&W's bolt from the Atchisson.
On examining the first example S&W I saw, <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I approved how Atchisson like it was, <span style="color: #3333FF">(WoW, how generous of you to "approve") it</span></div></div> opposed the similarly marketed <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"COLT from Walther" <span style="color: #3333FF">(which in my OPINION is POS, i bought one of the very first ones to hit our area gun shops, after about a week of frustration in shooting and attempts to clean it i said, "fuck this POS" and traded it for a S&W M&P15-22, i liked it so well i bought another one with the flash hider, the M&P mags are so easy to reload than any of the other POS's like the Cieners)</span></div></div>.

I guess you have a problem with the "kit". <span style="color: #FF0000">(you damn right, not one of the drop in kits are worth a shit)</span>
If you don't like it, you don't like it.

So the only " genuine dedicated" .22AR besides TacSol's is the the Nordic. It's not derived from a kit; this seems to the sole criterion of worth of a .22AR.
By reports both are excellent units. I confess I have not used either, and have not yet even cast an eye upon the Nordic.
I certain would not dissuade anyone trying/buy either.

But I have had excellent experiences over the last 7 or 8 years with Atchisson bolts, some kits and, if I may so bold to say, dedicated uppers based on Atchisson bolt, as well DPMS ( oh, damn! derived from another kit!). Lets see, I've tried DPMS dedicated uppers (excellent accuracy), Kuehl Precision( modified Ciener), M1S (genuine Ciener), Compass Lake(M-261), Spike's Tactical (Atchisson derivative), mongrel Spike's barrel/M1S collar/Ciener bolt), as well kits from MAC Atchisson (long before JA Ciener came around), Atchisson MKII from WAK, USGI M-261, and Air Force, and Ciener (call it an Atchisson MKIII) and Spike's.

All work great.

Isn't interesting that Frank White selected the M-261 bolt upon to build his $1100 Service Rifle uppers. From a kit!

Is there some possibility that the cat can be skinned in a variety of manners?
</div></div>

SIR...., when i refer to "kits" i am talking about the drop in kits such as the Ciener, where the bullet has to jump the length of the "false cartridge" till it reaches the rifling.., got it ? OK !! good !! in my .22's i want the cartridge to be chambered just like any non AR type rifle .22 Cal. rifle OK ?

BTW, with a Ciener drop in kit in my old Colt SP-1, i can hit those commercial one gallon cans from 100 yds. on out till they can barely be seen.

if any one here wants a Ceiner Kit i have two of them, one is NIB, the other about 15,000 rnds thru it, plus 8 30 rnd mags.
 
#27
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper

The only ones I've NOT heard any complaints about, is the Compass Lake, and the Nordic.

A friend of mine has the Nordic, and he has maybe 5K through it, without any malfunctions. He did some accuracy testing at 50 yards, and had some ammo that would do under 1/2", but, I don't remember exactly what ammo was most accurate.
 
#28
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Piston Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SIR...., when i refer to "kits" i am talking about the drop in kits such as the Ciener, where the bullet has to jump the length of the "false cartridge" till it reaches the rifling.</div></div>I don't know why you bring up drop-in conversion kits when the OP was asking about dedicated uppers.
 
#29
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Utnapishtim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Opinion question- Is the CLE good enough to replace my Savage MKII in a Boyds Tacticool stock? </div></div>

I think so.
 
#33
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marshallwk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only thing they have is 16 and not stainless. Kevin @ nodic said 3 weeks. Il throw it in a rest and let you know </div></div>

Looking forward to it.
 
#35
Re: .22 Dedicated Upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeBobOutfitters</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charger442</div><div class="ubbcode-body">anyone make a side charger upper? </div></div>

Yes. LAR Grizzly has some in the works. I've had some ordered for a few months now. They're back-ordered now, but should be hitting the market before long. </div></div>

Looking forward to it. You have a price point on them?
 
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