22 nosler?
- Thread starter 6brman
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Wow should I get one lol? So the reviews are true on midway!! I was looking at the 24in 223 wylde and the reviews say it's a shooter! Hmm any special breakin?
I pulled a factory 55gr and the charge is 33.7 grs what a looks to be cfe 223. What you have to look at is velocity vs barrel length. 5.56 Nato vs 22 nosler in same length barrel. Not what the .22 nosler 55gr will do out of a 18in barrel vs what a 5.56 Nato 55gr will do out of a 24 in barrel. Then you have to look at what kind of accuracy you get with said velocity. Let's just say you manage to get 3400 fps in a 20in 5.56 with 55gr pills but the accuracy at 100 yards is 3in. What good is that other than you can say your velocity is 3400 fps. Out of my White Oak 20in the 55 gr factory loaded is 3412 fps average is 1 moa. Gona be hard to get a 5.56 to do that. What it boils down to is you can get the .22 nosler to a faster velocity than a 5.56 with the same barrel length
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I am told not to use winchester primers because they are to soft. There is a wright up on white oak Web page
Something I have discovered with this round is the barrels have the same gasport hole has a .223 and even with a rifle length gas system they are severely over gas causing the blown primers and case head marking.
After installing adjustable gas block I got a chance to use a friend's chrono the one that mounts on barrel and it said the factory 55gr was humping 3480fps.
Pulled a factory 77gr this morning 29.9 gr. There loads defentley do not match there public load data
I just received my barrel today, a 22" X-Caliber, gonna start with some Varget and 70gr RDF bullets and see what happens.
I'm testing that combo now, not done yet. So far, H4895, Reloader 17, and a light load of IMR 4166 have not given the speeds I expect given Nosler's factory 77gr load advertised velocity of 2950. I still plan to try Varget, Reloader 15 and a stronger load of 4166. I tried a one-round experiment with Alliant 1200R, saw insane speed over the chrono and no obvious pressure signs. Definitely off in the weeds with this combo though, could be a bomb but I might try a few over the chrono to see if it can be consistent. Hopefully Varget works out.
I'm also testing the 70gr RDF bullet. So far my barrel seems 150fps slower than what Nosler published for the 28.0 gr Varget load. QuickLOAD says I should max out at about 28.9gr so I may try increasing the charge a bit. I started playing with Reloader 17 but haven't finished testing. Many more powders to try yet.
I chrono'd some factory 55gr Varmint ammo, and got 3457 fps, 54 e.s. and 24.0 s.d from 5 rounds. So their factory ammo is no joke.
So far, this feels like 25-45 Sharps all over again. Factory ammo sets a high bar that reloaders can't seem to beat, or even match. I suspect these companies blew up a few barrels in the lab before they found the load they use, like 27-29 gr of X-Terminator in 25-45 Sharps. My cryo-treated 22" barrel should be able to match the factory testing 24" barrel, but after 100 rounds I'm still searching.
Well working on new loads so far I could not get the 70 gr rdf to shoot good at mag length ( a must for me with this rifle). How ever the 69gr tmk with 28 gr Varget got me a .177 5 Rd group but averaged was in the .250 range 2.260 coal. The 77 gr tmk with 27.3 gr Varget gave a very good .230 average. Now playing with the 73 eld-m working with Varget and xbr. All loads are with cci br4 primers. Barrel is 20In WOA 1/8 twist predator.
I'm resurrecting this thread.
I built a .22 nosler on a rem 700 action.
22" ER Shaw barrel 1-7" twist, Manson reamer.
Dogtown Brass
Started with winchester primers, quickly moved to CCI BR4's.
We are loading LONG, using modified 10 round .223 Accurate mag.
80 grain Nosler custom competition.
We tried RL17, VERY consistent speeds, but you can't get enough powder in the case.
Switched to RL15, got better velocities but not quite as consistent as the RL17.
I won't give the powder charge, as I said, we are loading long, but we got just over 3100 FPS with the 80's, with excellent accuracy.
Thanks for sharing fdkay. Mine seemed to be terrible fussy on powder. It likes IMR 4064 and the 75gr ELD's. I got to use CCI primers as well. I'm using Nosler brass. I'm right at 3000 FPS now with excellent accuracy.
A 2019 post on the 22N? Thought it was dead.
CFE223 worked pretty good for 20" barrel. IMR4350 for longer barrel.
75ELD Using IMR4350 with load published for H4350 and the 77gr CC (worked up to it) 3100fps
80ELD same method 3050fps
88ELD, 30.3gr IMR4350, 2.475", CCI450 2970fps
Posted a 600yd 20 shot string youtube video, 198 out of 200.
28" X-Caliber 1:7, 5R, AR upper/lower.
CFE223 worked pretty good for 20" barrel. IMR4350 for longer barrel.
75ELD Using IMR4350 with load published for H4350 and the 77gr CC (worked up to it) 3100fps
80ELD same method 3050fps
88ELD, 30.3gr IMR4350, 2.475", CCI450 2970fps
Posted a 600yd 20 shot string youtube video, 198 out of 200.
28" X-Caliber 1:7, 5R, AR upper/lower.
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I ended up using sta ball 6.5 powder. Seems to work quite well.A 2019 post on the 22N? Thought it was dead.
CFE223 worked pretty good for 20" barrel. IMR4350 for longer barrel.
75ELD Using IMR4350 with load published for H4350 and the 77gr CC (worked up to it) 3100fps
80ELD same method 3050fps
88ELD, 30.3gr IMR4350, 2.475", CCI450 2970fps
Posted a 600yd 20 shot string youtube video, 198 out of 200.
28" X-Caliber 1:7, 5R, AR upper/lower.
I gave up on RL15 as it was finicky as I had pressure issues with it.
Did anyone tame this down with an 18in barrel (1:8)? I am looking at pushing a 55gr varm pill as fast as I can accurately. I need a good yote round out to about 300ish yards. I am THINKING about ordering a longer barrel but I have the 18in so I would like to make it work.
Are you talking AR15 or bolt gun?
The reason I ask is this: In a semi-auto, this cartridge chews brass up terribly, in a bolt gun, it is not an issue.
I'm not an engineer, but I believe it has to do with bolt thrust on the rebated cartridge head.
If you want a semi-auto, I would seriously look at the .224 Valkyrie. You can scream the 55's out at significant velocities (not quite as fast as the nosler) and have reusable brass.
If you really want the very slight performance edge with the 55's that the nosler gives you, and you don't mind a reload only proposition, then look at the .22 NOSGAR, you use nosler reloading dies and 6mm hagar brass. You end up with the same case dimensions, but on a 6.8 bolt face. Solves the issue of destroyed brass.
I am talking AR. I have a 224val and they are VERY touchy with twist rate, speed, weight. I haven't looked at the 22 NOGAR. I am not too worried about chewing up brass if the round preforms. I am not building it for competition shooting, just coyote hunting.
Don't know how it would shoot the light bullets, though there are several loads available in that ballpark.
I never explored lightweight bullets, as I was more interested in heavy for caliber, long range bullets.
At the speeds that the nosler and valkyrie are capable of with lightweight bullets, I'm not terribly surprised at the finicky performance. I would look to change the twist rate to 1-12 or 1-14 if I was going to be shooting nothing but light weight bullets.
There is a reason .22-250's are twisted slow.
It would be nice if those that have problems with the 22N actually had a 22N.
Not just know someone that knows someone that has a 22N.
Bolt thrust flattens the head stamp, AR or bolt gun.
Chewing up brass in a gas gun?
Touchy with twist rate? Is that a gas gun twist rate or a bolt gun twist rate?
Not just know someone that knows someone that has a 22N.
Bolt thrust flattens the head stamp, AR or bolt gun.
Chewing up brass in a gas gun?
Touchy with twist rate? Is that a gas gun twist rate or a bolt gun twist rate?
I have one. its is 18in with a 1:8 and I can't get it calmed down. I am looking at a new barrel but I hear all these mythical tales of people getting this combination to work so I was curious if anyone had conquered it. I can do that math like everyone else I am just chasing that mythical dragon....
ya took it on trade....I would prefer a longer and slower twist but it came with a bunch of brass and dies so....
Nice.
Are you stupid, or just trolling?
Fast twist rates and light bullets are a known problem.
See my above post, where I detail may bolt action build on a rem 700 in .22 Nosler.
If you are too stupid to understand that the AR15 begins unlocking the bolt while there is still pressure on the bolt face, the increased bolt thrust and typical overgassing of store bought uppers all play hell with brass, I don't know what else to tell you.
I am just trying to find "those people" that everyone seems to know that have made this work. And I know it isn't the greatest barrel....but I am quarantined and eating time....
I must be stupid then.
If you take a .223 or even the .223AI ( same bolt face and higher pressure than a 22N) and compare brass damage between AR and bolt guns years and years of refinement have all but eliminated brass damage from a properly tuned AR.
Bolt thrust with the same size case head (.223 and 22N) is the result of pressure and the internal body diameter.
Unlocking early in an AR does tend to damage brass.
The .224V, and 22 Nosgar use the larger bolt face but how does that eliminate things like ripped rims?
As far as fast twist rates, what bullet weights can be shot in a 1 in 8 ?
Or maybe a 1 in 9?
There seems to be a few areas of brass damage that are blamed on the 22N rebated rim, that are mysteriously eliminated using the larger 224V or the Nosgar base.
Is that YOUR video? Nice.
This2 3part Nosgar video follows a 5 part where he couldn't get the 22N to work.
I watched them all.
Others (myself included) seem to be able to get the 22N to work with Nosler (even Dogtown/Nosler) brass.
Just not with the Stoner barrel/upper.
18" and rifle gas works with the .223, just not with the extra gas of the 22N.
Maybe give up on 18" AR's with a round hotter than the .223.
I also suggest staying far away from the WSR primer with high pressure handloads.
Staball 6.5 does look promising. Did just a little work before the shutdown.
Man, I miss going to the range
I ain't a great shot but a 198@600 was a kick (IMR4350)
88's loaded long.
If you take a .223 or even the .223AI ( same bolt face and higher pressure than a 22N) and compare brass damage between AR and bolt guns years and years of refinement have all but eliminated brass damage from a properly tuned AR.
Bolt thrust with the same size case head (.223 and 22N) is the result of pressure and the internal body diameter.
Unlocking early in an AR does tend to damage brass.
The .224V, and 22 Nosgar use the larger bolt face but how does that eliminate things like ripped rims?
As far as fast twist rates, what bullet weights can be shot in a 1 in 8 ?
Or maybe a 1 in 9?
There seems to be a few areas of brass damage that are blamed on the 22N rebated rim, that are mysteriously eliminated using the larger 224V or the Nosgar base.
Is that YOUR video? Nice.
This
I watched them all.
Others (myself included) seem to be able to get the 22N to work with Nosler (even Dogtown/Nosler) brass.
Just not with the Stoner barrel/upper.
18" and rifle gas works with the .223, just not with the extra gas of the 22N.
Maybe give up on 18" AR's with a round hotter than the .223.
I also suggest staying far away from the WSR primer with high pressure handloads.
Staball 6.5 does look promising. Did just a little work before the shutdown.
Man, I miss going to the range
I ain't a great shot but a 198@600 was a kick (IMR4350)
88's loaded long.
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It is not my video, there is another one, I believe done by Ultimate Reloader that discusses it, but I am not certain.
I highlighted the important part for you, the Nosler round has a significantly greater internal (and external) body diameter.
The Nosgar, Valkyrie and .223 AI all have rim diameters that are EQUAL to the body diameter.
Bolt thrust - Wikipedia
There remains substantial pressure on the bolt face as the action opens, it is not necessarily opening early, it is designed to have some pressure on the bolt face. I had found a discussion on it previously, I am unable to locate it, or I would share. The rebated rim design exacerbates the amount of pressure on the bolt face, as the bolt turn and unlocks, you end up with damaged brass.
My rifle, being a bolt gun, does not have an issue, as the pressure is zero by the time I unlock the bolt.
I run Dogtown brass, i've just started using 6.5 staball powder with heavy bullets.
FWIW, in regards to twist rates, much of it is bullet dependant. My Dad rebarreled his AR with a 7 twist barrel (5.56) and it would never shoot 55's worth a shit.
62+ and it was fine.
"FWIW, in regards to twist rates, much of it is bullet dependant. My Dad rebarreled his AR with a 7 twist barrel (5.56) and it would never shoot 55's worth a shit. "
Makes perfect sense.
Calculate the peak force on the bolt face for a .223, 223AI, 224V, and the 22N.
That's the force applied to the bolt. Gas or bolt gun.
Then force at unlocking.
Pressure at unlocking is what damages brass in an AR.
The rebated rim size can handle the pressure at firing, just not at early unlocking.
The folks that seem to make the 22N work (look for suppressed coyote videos) usually use barrels longer than 18".
Makes perfect sense.
Calculate the peak force on the bolt face for a .223, 223AI, 224V, and the 22N.
That's the force applied to the bolt. Gas or bolt gun.
Then force at unlocking.
Pressure at unlocking is what damages brass in an AR.
The rebated rim size can handle the pressure at firing, just not at early unlocking.
The folks that seem to make the 22N work (look for suppressed coyote videos) usually use barrels longer than 18".
The argument ?
What argument?
The 18 inch barrel was the biggest mistake ever for the 22N.
Well, other than the sharp edged rims of the early unfinished Nosler brass.
What argument?
The 18 inch barrel was the biggest mistake ever for the 22N.
Well, other than the sharp edged rims of the early unfinished Nosler brass.
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Old post but i will say this: from my experience shooting wildcat cartridges out of large and small frame AR’s the barrel length is not so important by itself but the relation to The gas tube length barrel length is more important. Using slower powders and longer barrel and a mid or rifle length gas tubing may get you with the same issues as using a shorter barrel and a mid length gas tube. Adding a suppressor =like adding 4inch barrel.
Placing a rifle +1-3 rifle gas tube will remedy any issues
Placing a rifle +1-3 rifle gas tube will remedy any issues
