22 Rifle lands / compare discussion, significant differences

[GuideDog]

The bore shots are labeled by the MFG below. Its interesting to see the differences in design, finish. All 3 were fired 1 day prior, Bore snaked only to clean.

CZ 457 - Clean defined edges on lands and bore is super smooth.
Volquartzen (VM-22) - still fairly defined, definitely the shiniest finish. I can't turn the borescope brightness down any further. The finish is like a mirror.
Vudoo - Notice the lands at the chamber are beveled about twice the length. Bore is not as bright but maybe the bore snake didn't clean as well.

The differences are pronounced in land / bore construction. There looks to be slightly different size lands too. All 3 for these shoot sub-moa at 50, It's sometimes a close tie on grouping but Vudoo always wins. They all have cold bore POI difference. Volq and CZ shoot very similar using the same ammo. I shoot SK Rifle match or Lapua Center-X. Vudoo loves X but SK shoots almost as good, just more flyers when X has hardly and or certainly much less. That's a bit of background on her rifles.

Just thought it would be interesting to show the differences, at least here's a reference. Perhaps we can build this thread with other 22LR similar bore shots. I would like to see a Anschutz, KIDD, RimX, Bergara, Tikka etc and other rifles, mostly used in matches.

 

[Dstoenner]

The CZ barrel is made by cold hammer forging so that is why its land and grooves are so perfect. They probably polished the mandrel till it shined like a mirror. Since they have different chambers for different models I would assume that once they have made the barrel they chamber it on a lathe then create the finish. I don't know if it is nitrided or melonited but mine is a black as the ace of spades. Mine also shoots great.

The volquartsen definitely has a longer leade which means a shallower angle. I would guess that it doesn't engrave the bullet much if at all. Seems strange but then maybe it is a sporter chamber??

David

 

[RockeyRoad]

The CZ barrel is made by cold hammer forging so that is why its land and grooves are so perfect. They probably polished the mandrel till it shined like a mirror. Since they have different chambers for different models I would assume that once they have made the barrel they chamber it on a lathe then create the finish. I don't know if it is nitrided or melonited but mine is a black as the ace of spades. Mine also shoots great.

The volquartsen definitely has a longer leade which means a shallower angle. I would guess that it doesn't engrave the bullet much if at all. Seems strange but then maybe it is a sporter chamber??

David

No worries but it’s the Vudoo with the longer ramp. It also shoot repeatedly the best although the Volquartsen semi-auto is perhaps passing the CZ on repeated accuracy. It has a mirror finish on the barrel.

On the cold forging I would think there is some type of final machining for clean up, but maybe not.

 

[obx22]

This pic gives a good graphic of the rifling shape in a Sako P94S Finnfire. I was honestly surprised at the ratchet shape as the only unique thing I’d read about these was the 16.5 twist bore.

 

[GuideDog]

The CZ barrel is made by cold hammer forging so that is why its land and grooves are so perfect. They probably polished the mandrel till it shined like a mirror. Since they have different chambers for different models I would assume that once they have made the barrel they chamber it on a lathe then create the finish. I don't know if it is nitrided or melonited but mine is a black as the ace of spades. Mine also shoots great.

The volquartsen definitely has a longer leade which means a shallower angle. I would guess that it doesn't engrave the bullet much if at all. Seems strange but then maybe it is a sporter chamber??

David

Here's a Bergara B-14R bore scope land shot. What's interesting is it has lands very similar to Vudoo. It also shoots very similar to Vudoo and also like Lapua ammo best just like Vudoo. I have to conclude the longer lands are the chamber design for Lapua ammo. This B-14R shot great with Lapua Center X and Midas+. Interesting, my Vudoo does not prefer Midas + but only Center-X. I know there's not much difference in cartridge design but perhaps there's more difference than I'm aware of.

I attached a pic of ammo comparison. I ran out of Center-X that I had with me or it would have been included.

There's a flyer on both. Vudoo and Bergara both shot with Center-X. Both with same 32X scope so kinda apples to apples.
I'm still going for 25X, I have shot 17X before with Vudoo, and that won the local 50 yrd benchrest match. Vudoo has been consistently winning this match but now I have a Factory and an Unlimited category entry. I'm working on Tactile, prepping the hardware.

You can also see the groupings with Center-X on the Vudoo target. Most are 3 shot but there's two 4 shot on the outside edge sighters at the top.

 

[grauhanen]

This B-14R shot great with Lapua Center X and Midas+. Interesting, my Vudoo does not prefer Midas + but only Center-X. I know there's not much difference in cartridge design but perhaps there's more difference than I'm aware of.

There is no difference whatsoever in cartridge design, dimensions, or appearance between Center X and Midas +. None. They have the same ingredients/components and are put together during the course of the same production runs by the same loading machines. Only Lapua can fully explain why some are packaged CX and others M+.

Your rifle or any rifle can shoot with good results any good lots of ammo, regardless whether they are Center X or Midas + or some variety of Eley or RWS. The only catch is that the lots must be of consistent quality. Even barrels with ostensibly ammo-specific chambers are able to do well with good lots of ammo from any match ammo manufacturer.

If you or someone else finds, for example, that Midas didn't shoot as well as CX, it's because of one or both of two reasons. One, the lot of M isn't as consistent as the lot of CX. Or two, the testing is unreliable because of one or more factors including quantity of data, conditions, rifle/barrel limitations, and shooter ability.

 

[GuideDog]

There is no difference whatsoever in cartridge design, dimensions, or appearance between Center X and Midas +. None. They have the same ingredients/components and are put together during the course of the same production runs by the same loading machines. Only Lapua can fully explain why some are packaged CX and others M+.

Your rifle or any rifle can shoot with good results any good lots of ammo, regardless whether they are Center X or Midas + or some variety of Eley or RWS. The only catch is that the lots must be of consistent quality. Even barrels with ostensibly ammo-specific chambers are able to do well with good lots of ammo from any match ammo manufacturer.

If you or someone else finds, for example, that Midas didn't shoot as well as CX, it's because of one or both of two reasons. One, the lot of M isn't as consistent as the lot of CX. Or two, the testing is unreliable because of one or more factors including quantity of data, conditions, rifle/barrel limitations, and shooter ability.

It's the same lot of Midas, same model scope. Yes, it could be data qty. I wish I had a large qty of Midas but I only compared a small sample. It does appear with the small amount of ammo I tested that Vudoo and Bergara like Lapua. Again the bore scope pics show they have similar lands that are longer on the taper at the chamber entrance. Perhaps the similar chambers suggest this. I'm just trying to compare bore photos and make some hypothesis to determine why the data suggests the ammo preference by comparing group sizes.

Sure if I had 500 rounds of each the data would be more conclusive. It's just a data point for discussion hoping to conclude that in fact the chamber determines ammo preference which may be a well known fact. When I spoke with Vudoo I was told their chamber is designed for Lapua. I was just kinda surprised that Midas+ didn't group better than Center-X with the small sample of data. Sure more data may show better groups. I was also told by Vudoo that their barrel will group better after about 500 rounds, and that's not a hard fact (500), I think that's the number of rounds they mentioned. My data does show it's grouping better after 500 since that's the current count, but it was outstanding from the first few days.

Like the Youtube "Pursuit of Accuracy" I'm also trying to find the reason the different manufactures barrels and ammo produce the results.
It's just for "fun" but useful data perhaps.