.22 trajectory at high angles

[mtn-goat]

Hi all,

This is a noob question so please forgive me if the answer is simple and I’m just being an idiot.

I have a real pigeon infestation in and on our barn. I finally invested in a nice .22 to solve that issue, but I am worried about where any misses might land. We live in a rural area but it’s not the wilderness, so I have to be a little careful.

The problem I am having is that every ballistic calculator I have tried seems to give me the drop from the initial trajectory, not the actual path of the bullet. So in this case, because the sky rats are sitting on top of my barn, the initial trajectory is 28-35deg upwards, depending on where exactly I take the shot from. So then the bullet must travel upwards for a good long ways before gravity starts to win, and I haven’t been able to find a calculator that will show me the actual path.

If it matters, I’m going to be shooting SK Rifle Match out of a VQ Summit.

Thanks for any tips.

 

[alamo5000]

This is the first article that came up on Google. It should get you started.

How To Shoot Downhill and Uphill: Bullet Trajectory - RifleShooter

Making precise hits when shooting downhill and uphill has morphed from dark wizardry to science over the past several decades. Here is what you need to know to account for angled shooting.

www.rifleshootermag.com

 

[alamo5000]

Here is another... I googled "Shooting up hill"

3.3 Effects of Shooting Uphill or Downhill - Sierra Bullets

www.sierrabullets.com

 

[mtn-goat]

Thank you both for your quick replies, but I’m afraid neither of those articles answers the question. I’m not worried about how to sight the rifle to hit the pigeons - that seems trivial and I understand the math - I am looking to figure out where the bullet will land if I miss.

The drop calculations are off the bore sight, so yeah I could get out a pen a paper and draw a line at 30deg and calculate how at 1000 yds a perfect projectile would be x feet above the ground but an SK .22 will be y yards below that trajectory… in other words, I get how to solve it. But I’m looking for a tool that will show me the actual trajectory (not relative to the bore sight) for different firing angles, drag coefficients and muzzle velocities, and I haven’t been able to find anything.

Thanks

 

[Aftermath]

ShootersCalculator.com | The Mile-long trajectory of a 22LR

Calculates the ballistic trajectory of a bullet fired from a rifle, handgun or other firearm. Produces a ballistic trajectory chart and table that shows the drop, velocity, kinetic energy, windage, and trajectory of a bullet.

shooterscalculator.com

EDIT: search for projectile motion. The math isn't terrible.

 

[mtn-goat]

ShootersCalculator.com | The Mile-long trajectory of a 22LR

Calculates the ballistic trajectory of a bullet fired from a rifle, handgun or other firearm. Produces a ballistic trajectory chart and table that shows the drop, velocity, kinetic energy, windage, and trajectory of a bullet.

shooterscalculator.com

EDIT: search for projectile motion. The math isn't terrible.

The problem with projectile motion calculators is they don’t take into account the very significant effects of air resistance - which makes sense, since for most projectiles you wouldn’t know the drag coefficients. You get crazy answers without it, of course (a .22LR bullet is not going 6 miles).

 

[AmmoFort]

There is some stuff in this thread which may actually be applicable.

Personally I’d go larger caliber, lower velocity air rifle.

 

[alamo5000]

Thank you both for your quick replies, but I’m afraid neither of those articles answers the question. I’m not worried about how to sight the rifle to hit the pigeons - that seems trivial and I understand the math - I am looking to figure out where the bullet will land if I miss.

You will definitely need to understand and figure out the information in the articles to calculate that answer. It will depend on the ammo and topography.

 

[AmmoFort]

Rent a scissor lift or boom lift for a month and elevate your firing position. Cheaper than you might think.

 

[alamo5000]

Go to shooterscalculator.com and see if it has the info you need.

It will calculate it for you.

 

[_Windrider_]

Hi all,

This is a noob question so please forgive me if the answer is simple and I’m just being an idiot.

I have a real pigeon infestation in and on our barn. I finally invested in a nice .22 to solve that issue, but I am worried about where any misses might land. We live in a rural area but it’s not the wilderness, so I have to be a little careful.

The problem I am having is that every ballistic calculator I have tried seems to give me the drop from the initial trajectory, not the actual path of the bullet. So in this case, because the sky rats are sitting on top of my barn, the initial trajectory is 28-35deg upwards, depending on where exactly I take the shot from. So then the bullet must travel upwards for a good long ways before gravity starts to win, and I haven’t been able to find a calculator that will show me the actual path.

If it matters, I’m going to be shooting SK Rifle Match out of a VQ Summit.

Thanks for any tips.

Where’s your closest neighbor?

 

[Conaso]

Put some grain on the ground where you have a good backstop, then you won't have to worry how far the bullet will travel.

 

[Aftermath]

The problem with projectile motion calculators is they don’t take into account the very significant effects of air resistance - which makes sense, since for most projectiles you wouldn’t know the drag coefficients. You get crazy answers without it, of course (a .22LR bullet is not going 6 miles).

Even at optimum elevation (for max range), a 22LR bullet will barely make 1400 yards.

Edit to say...that calculator link I provided DOES account for atmospherics. So does Ballistic AE and MANY others. If they did not, do you think they would provide accurate or even a usable shooting solution?

 

[mtn-goat]

Even at optimum elevation (for max range), a 22LR bullet will barely make 1400 yards.

Edit to say...that calculator link I provided DOES account for atmospherics. So does Ballistic AE and MANY others. If they did not, do you think they would provide accurate or even a usable shooting solution?

Maybe I am using this wrong, but what I see is the trajectory relative to the boresight line, not relative to the ground, like every other ballistics calculator (which, of course, exist to account for atsmopheric drag). Is there another part of the website that will show the actual trajectory?

Edited to note: 1400yd max distance at optimum angle for a .22LR is useful data point, thank you.

 

[mtn-goat]

Put some grain on the ground where you have a good backstop, then you won't have to worry how far the bullet will travel.

This is a good idea, thank you.

 

[Aftermath]

Maybe I am using this wrong, but what I see is the trajectory relative to the boresight line, not relative to the ground, like every other ballistics calculator (which, of course, exist to account for atsmopheric drag). Is there another part of the website that will show the actual trajectory?

Edited to note: 1400yd max distance at optimum angle for a .22LR is useful data point, thank you.

This first screenshot shows shooting angle of 42.5....on Earth that is close to optimum. Some ARTY guy can do better. So can I but I don't care enough to research AND to the math. It is NOT 45 as one might assume.

Note that the disclaimer from the website says that max range is 1391.

As far as showing you that "actual" trajectory, the magical arc, I haven't played with it enough to find that. I am not likely to continue to pursue that either. However, as I stated before, the math is not that bad. Go through one of the High School or University Physics tutorials. You will get a close approximation...just know that any solution you come up with that shows a range in excess of 1400 yards is not likely, especially at sea level on level ground.

The info I've given you includes time of flight and velocity so you can get VERY close to "actual", even though "actual" will vary according the conditions at the time you "actually" pull the trigger.

If your neighbors are a mile away, shoot that direction without worry. Also, note the fps drops below 500 before 700 yards along with a very low impact energy. Slow enough and little enough energy that I don't think you would cause any sort of permanent injury on anything larger than a squirrel, barring that Red Ryder shot.

EDIT: I just couldn't leave it alone..even though I REALLY don't care. If you elevate at 42.5 degrees above level, your bullet will achieve max altitude about 697 yards from where you fire it and be about 320 yards above the elevation it left the barrel. It will impact about 1400 yards away.

 

[bulletbluesky]

You have online calculators to estimate this, like JBM:
https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmdist-5.1.cgi
They are mostly point mass models based on single BC.
Quite sometimes the result differ significantly from real word tests.
Max ranges are almost often shorter than suggested by computer.
If you hit victim with 40 grain .22 cal projectile carrying 4-5 fpe at 1400 yards in an eye or open mouth, it can be serious wound.

 

[Aftermath]

Played with this tool a bit. You can get your magical arc by using the max range as your zero. This arc is far more realistic than the straight math one that doesn't accurately account for drag. You can play with the angle of launch some more, alter the bc and mv and change the zero range more.

 

[DFOOSKING]

Important takeaway here. A super low b.c. projo being way up in unrestricted air at max ord is likely tumbling long before it gets there. And when it does...its got less energy than a small hail stone that I'm told people across the world live in utter perpetual fear of.

 

[AmmoFort]

View attachment 8281410
Important takeaway here. A super low b.c. projo being way up in unrestricted air at max ord is likely tumbling long before it gets there. And when it does...its got less energy than a small hail stone that I'm told people across the world live in utter perpetual fear of.

View attachment 8281413

So would you be willing to test out your hypothesis? Head on out to the max range and let a bunch of guys rain down .22lr bullets all over gods creation. No need to panic, they should all be tumbling and be just like hail...

 

[DFOOSKING]

Abso-fucking-lutely. And I'll drag your bitch ass down there too and let you cower behind me.

If you also didn't pay attention...its in single digits of energy for hundreds of yards prior to the highlighted portion. On a 30mph headwind it wouldn't surprise me if the round is practically retreating.

I bet you are the one writing on rimfire ammo boxes saying it is dangerous to 1.5 miles.

 

[AmmoFort]

Abso-fucking-lutely. And I'll drag your bitch ass down there too and let you cower behind me.

If you also didn't pay attention...its in single digits of energy for hundreds of yards prior to the highlighted portion. On a 30mph headwind it wouldn't surprise me if the round is practically retreating.

I bet you are the one writing on rimfire ammo boxes saying it is dangerous to 1.5 miles.

Well let’s film it then something like that should pay some decent money.

 

[mtn-goat]

Played with this tool a bit. You can get your magical arc by using the max range as your zero. This arc is far more realistic than the straight math one that doesn't accurately account for drag. You can play with the angle of launch some more, alter the bc and mv and change the zero range more. View attachment 8281356

Setting max range to zero is clever, thank you for that.