223 Ackley Improved

[jb1000br]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

already been to the point of piercing primers...WITH a gre-tan mod...I'd say that is at the top

May have dig deep in the bowels of my powder store and grab the 335...

Wolf - nope...will re-check.

JB

 

[wolfman]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

JB- cheers

 

[Grand]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Vu: You might be better off with a hotter primer than the F205, especially if your using ball powder.

 

[FIT4TRI]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Ok guys just searched 223 AI and came up with ths thread.
I have been thinking about this round since the last stiller group buy but opted for a tac 30 for 260 last time.

This time I'm sold on the 223 AI. My question is barrel length. I had thought about 24" 1:8 would be my choice but I don't know.

One had said no longer than 22". What would be my best bet for say 80 gr or 75 amax and going to 1 k occasionally? Is burn rate of chosen powder a factor? I have mostly shot long range with 155's and 208 amaxs for 30 cal. and have no clue on the 223 stuff?

Thanks Slick

 

[Criver600]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

If your going to 1K 24 would be the minimum. Tons of better 1K cartridges 223AI out to 600 is hard to beat.

 

[montyb]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

my 22" Hart makes 1K at about mach 1.25 with the 75 Amax

 

[Criver600]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Thats great, My 80 SMK's are running a little harder. Its not a 1000 yard round by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[montyb]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

in spite of your opinion, people do it all the time. some people even do it with the .308.

 

[FIT4TRI]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Thanks guys . I am aware of the 1k cartridges. I got em , favorites are 6.5-284, 6XC and 308's(for Palma). I just have wanted a 223 AI for a while.

By no means do I know everything about the previously mentioned rounds and I am purely in the dark on any 223 or derivative.

I have always been intrigued by the 223 when watching svc rifle and match rifle guys shoot the AR's out to 600. I want to build the rifle on this round just to have it. No particular use in mind. I just was looking to get feed back on barrel lengths and needed some generalized parameters to pose the question.

Slick

 

[montyb]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

yea, i have several .264 Win rifles (20 MOA to 1K) and love 'em, but somehow the .223 AI rifles get used more and more. economy may be a factor.

 

[FIT4TRI]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Economy is big . I shoot alot of 22 rf but 100yds aint 1k.

What do you think about wgt and barrel length vs balance etc. . I am getting one shot at this one. My oldest 2 are going to college next year and this one may be the last build for quite a while.

 

[montyb]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

one of my .223s AIs has an MTU 24"ish barrel and is a heavy pig. basically not much good if you have to carry it. very easy to shoot well on the bipod, tho

the other has a 22" Remington Varmint profile that is still kinda heavy, but much more usable.

if i were to do another, i'd probably go with a #2 or #3 cut at 21" or 22"

most of my shooting is either informal range work or in the field.

 

[Criver600]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

"some people even do it with the .308."
I do it all the time with a 308 with IRON sights............ I have two 223AI's one's my living room rifle . Wife and daughter have chickens, ducks, quail you name it I'm whacking stuff all the time with mine.
However during 20+ years of competitive shooting I have never seen a 223/223AI win at 1000 yards.

 

[montyb]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

so you missed the sarcasm.

if you have a cartridge that will stabilize a bullet and stay supersonic to 1k+, id call that a 1k cartridge. now whether or not it meets your approval means little.

to me, the .308 is anemic and does not deserve the attention it gets, but others like it and and use it with good results, so i don't waste effort trying to tell them otherwise.

the .223AI will get to 1k with about the same elevation and about the same remaining velocity, so it seems to me that the difference is whether or not you can dope the wind.

 

[Criver600]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Now that we know you can read I'll turn on my sarcasm radar....... grin.
The pic is my varmint rig, I also have a very serious prone gun that I pillage 600 yard prone matches with, no recoil, phenomenal accuracy. Running a 80 SMK just over 3100 its one badass rifle. Tried it at 1000 a couple of times and I'll take my Palma rifle any day. Good Shooting

 

[NorCal Vu]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Finally got my action in hand. Going to order a barrel soon. McM A5 is on order.

Anyone recently complete their 223AI build?

Vu

 

[darrenk75b]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Mine is at the smith right now. It's a lightweight though - lookin to take it yote hunting and maybe go after some of the small Blacktail that roam te land my dad lives on in Santa Rosa.

Mine should be back in less than 8 weeks.

 

[MLC]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

I have a 20" 5.5 contour 8 twist built by APA.
It's in an LTR stock for now and has proven to shoot nicely so far.
I'm tumbling my 75 AMAX's in hBN tonight and hope to have some downrange by the weekend.
My fireforming loads with the 50 grain Sierra Blitz with Benchmark and H335 have shown promise.
Any ground hog at 300 or under will be unhappy with fireforming loads.

 

[223ai]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Just picked up my 223ai today. Remmy, with an 8 twist rock, hs precision handle with Williams bottom metal. I have 350 rds of bh 60 gr soft point to fireform with, and i'll take it from there....looking forward to it.

Josh

 

[Bevan]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Any of you guys tried Varget with the 75gr Amax?


I got my .223AI on Friday, shot some loads today with H4895/75Amax and got down to 1/2MOA for 5 shots easily, but started at 26gr which was too hot... went up to 26.9gr and was getting 3150+fps...

26gr was too hot and only around 3000fps average so I am going to try Varget.

I want 1/2MOA and 3000+fps with the 75Amax out of my 24" tube

 

[RADcustom]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Try H335 or Reloader 15 for the 75gr bullets

You might like it.

 

[Bevan]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Can't get those powders, at least not easily. I can get some Vihtavuori powders if any of those are good

 

[wksinatl]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any of you guys tried Varget with the 75gr Amax?


I got my .223AI on Friday, shot some loads today with H4895/75Amax and got down to 1/2MOA for 5 shots easily, but <span style="font-weight: bold">started at 26gr which was too hot... went up to 26.9gr and was getting 3150+fps...</span>

26gr was too hot and only around 3000fps average so I am going to try Varget.

I want 1/2MOA and 3000+fps with the 75Amax out of my 24" tube
</div></div>

If 26grs was too hot why did you go to 26.9grs???

I can't get over 3100fps in my Krieger without pressure signs. Mine are loaded to 3050 w/ 75amaxs and RE-15. Shoots like a freakin' laser...

Keith

 

[Bevan]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If 26grs was too hot why did you go to 26.9grs???
</div></div>

Because I had them loaded and had driven all the way to the range so I figured I'd see how they shot. Should have started a bit lower.

 

[sledder]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If 26grs was too hot why did you go to 26.9grs???
</div></div>

Because I had them loaded and had driven all the way to the range so I figured I'd see how they shot. Should have started a bit lower. </div></div>

Simple the only way to get any real meaningful velocity increase with the AI's,is to load them into 70k plus range.

 

[Bevan]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Maybe so, I am only after 3000+ with a 75gr, given that I have a 24" barrel and people around here seem to be getting that reliably out of shorter barrels, I am sure it's doable without having to hammer my bolt open after every shot. I may have to just try and get hold of some RL-15.

 

[wksinatl]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe so, I am only after 3000+ with a 75gr, given that I have a 24" barrel and people around here seem to be getting that reliably out of shorter barrels, I am sure it's doable without having to hammer my bolt open after every shot. I may have to just try and get hold of some RL-15. </div></div>

I think you could get 3000fps EASY w/ your 24" barrel. My 3050 is w/ a 22" barrel. I don't see an advantage to push mine anymore than that. I shoot Lapua brass and don't to trash it after a few firings. BTW, 52gr amax's and h335 also shoots damn good.

good luck,
Keith

 

[sledder]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe so, I am only after 3000+ with a 75gr, given that I have a 24" barrel and people around here seem to be getting that reliably out of shorter barrels, I am sure it's doable without having to hammer my bolt open after every shot. I may have to just try and get hold of some RL-15. </div></div>

There's a certain dwarf that claims 26 grains of H335 will get 75's to 3k out of a 21 inch barrel no less.

 

[7mmRM]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe so, I am only after 3000+ with a 75gr, given that I have a 24" barrel and people around here seem to be getting that reliably out of shorter barrels, I am sure it's doable without having to hammer my bolt open after every shot. I may have to just try and get hold of some RL-15. </div></div>

Im getting 3100 FPS with the 75AMAX/RL15/Lapua brass combo via 26" PacNor. 3k+ via a 24" would be an easy feat.

 

[Bevan]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

I will have results with Varget tomorrow afternoon, will post them here. If it's no good, I will have to try to get some RL15


Have any of you guys tried Varget or Win748? It's another one that looks like it might work reasonably.

 

[MTETM]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Vu,
22.5 inch 1:8 Douglas barrel
26.0 gr Varget
75 Amax moly
formed RP cases
Wolf SRM primers
just off the lands

Chroned at 3050 at 85 degrees at 2850 elevation
Note: this load runs 2850 in my wife's 223AI. It is 24.5 inch savage 1:9 varmint setback and rechambered...then again, everything is just short of 200 fps slower in that barrel ...

Have plenty of other data for lighter stuff if you are interested.
Feeds great from a modified AI mag system.

 

[Bevan]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Ok shot some Varget this afternoon

Average speeds (75gr Amax, Varget)

25.5gr: 2812

25.9gr: 2899

26.3gr: 2948

26.7gr: 3022 (borderline with this brass)

27.1gr: 3063 (too hot)

27.5gr: 3107 (too hot)


Still a bit of sticky bolt lift on a couple of the cases at 26.7gr, annoyingly... as it is about what I want with a quite low SD and good accuracy/speed. The primers looked ok though and no ejector marks. I think my winchester brass, besides being mongrel unsorted old stuff and very inconsistent, is too soft... I'm going to get some Lapua.

It doesn't seem to like the 69gr Targex

but at 26.6gr 2206H(H4895) I had 3147fps average with no sticky bolt lift or other pressure signs.

 

[Bevan]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

I've managed to obtain some Lake City .223 brass, I'll give it a go and see if it improves things. Failing that, lapua

 

[Criver600]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Something is not working, 223/223AI are extremely accurate. Should be getting one hole 1/4 MOA at 100 easily. Try seating about .010 into the lands do a "ladder" test.
Good Luck & Good Shooting

 

[Bevan]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

I think my shit-tastic unprepped mongrel brass is a part of that. I'm going to go kill some things and ring some steel with it this weekend and wait for some more Amaxs to arrive then continue with this load development thing


Also going to bed the stock because it's a shitty fit

 

[Bevan]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Ok a few months later... after some gunsmith issues...

27.3gr Varget
Norma Brass, fireformed
75gr Amax
WSR primer
2.5" OAL
3020fps
.5" at 100m for 5 shots.

No pressure problems. Might do some more testing later but I am very lazy and only tested 3 loads then picked the best of them.

 

[223ai]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Vu -

Any update on your rifle? Is it finished?

Best,
Josh

 

[sixfiveguy]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Vu -

Any update on your rifle? Is it finished?

Best,
Josh </div></div>

Josh, Thanks for bumping this thread up! The search function didn't net me shit.

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of barrel life should I expect?

Bullets I should be looking at for long range shooting?

Will this caliber get me out to 600yards?

I am thinking of building one vs a regular 223. Just need more info.

NOBODY..if you are out there..HELP! I know you are a 223 AI fan. </div></div>

Barrels wear like iron and you'll do no better than the 75A-Max. That bullet is easy to keep supersonic to 1200yds,in a 21" tube.

Once you taste it,noone could slap the smile off your face.

 

[223ai]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

My last 223ai shot the 75 amaxes very well, but I sold it to build a new one with different specs. I never shot it beyond 600, and those bullets performed as they should. I have a new one being built to slightly different specs (ready any day now...), and was planning on shooting berger 80 grain vld's for the added BC, though the 80 amax is compelling.

Either way, the primers will pile up in short order.

 

[brdeano]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Either way, the primers will pile up in short order. </div></div>

And that's the beauty of it. Brass is cheap, bullets are cheap, you're only buring ~26gr of powder, and you spend all day shooting it without beating up the barrel, your shoulder or your wallet.....and I don't know anyone who benefits from spending LESS time shooting. You already know this though. (grin)

I sold the one that I had at the beginning of this old thread after somewhere in the neighborhood of 4000 rounds. I'm on the second heavy one now. Like the first one, this one too went in another USMC stock and I have no complaints about it. It runs moly'd 75Amax's just as well as the last one did.

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

It doesn't get any better than the 75A-Max.

 

[Austan]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It doesn't get any better than the 75A-Max.</div></div>

Molyed or nekid?

I've thought of going the moly route but is it true once you go black you never go back?

 

[brdeano]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Go moly, and lay off the cleaning rods.

 

[Austan]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Whats a cleaning rod?

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Moly,kiss,'335 and rock on.

 

[223ai]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Have you ever worked with Boron Nitride rather than Moly?

 

[long range dogr]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Any of you guys ever try the 75 VLD?

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

I've only dabbled Boron in fishing rods.

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: 223 Ackley Improved

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: long range dogr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any of you guys ever try the 75 VLD? </div></div>

Pard,there's only ONE and it's an A-Max.