223 AR loads.. New to me

[magtech]

I found some old reloading stuff my father had so I decided to load up for my new 223 AR match barrel. The powder was h335 with cci small rifle primers.. I am meticulous in my reloading but this setup wouldn't give my consistent MV results.

In a 5 shot group I would have 3or4 shots within 30es then 1-2 that made the es over 100.

On a few rounds I had a delayed ignition of the powder itself.

So what is the best powder/primer combo for accurate 223 loads in 55/77gn bullets?

I LOVE how h335 meters compared to the h4831sc I'm used to. Should I go TAC for it's ability to meter or rl15 for it's consistency?

What are the best primers too?

 

[bobke]

8208, AR Comp, Varget, TAC, CFE223, H4895 are all options. 8208 may not flow through a measure as well as a ball powder, but has proven-for me-and with 69-77gr bullets, a top choice not only in 223, but in 6.5 Grendel and lighter bullets in 308. Easier to manage powder inventory for multiple calibers, as well.

 

[padom]

I found some old reloading stuff my father had so I decided to load up for my new 223 AR match barrel. The powder was h335 with cci small rifle primers.. I am meticulous in my reloading but this setup wouldn't give my consistent MV results.

In a 5 shot group I would have 3or4 shots within 30es then 1-2 that made the es over 100.

On a few rounds I had a delayed ignition of the powder itself.

So what is the best powder/primer combo for accurate 223 loads in 55/77gn bullets?

I LOVE how h335 meters compared to the h4831sc I'm used to. Should I go TAC for it's ability to meter or rl15 for it's consistency?

What are the best primers too?

Well did you do proper load workup and find the center of your node??? What load development did you do? H335 is a staple for 55gr 223 loads. Not your precision powder of choice but great for running off large quantities of plinking rounds.

77gr you want H4895, 8208, Varget, RE15

 

[magtech]

Well did you do proper load workup and find the center of your node??? What load development did you do? H335 is a staple for 55gr 223 loads. Not your precision powder of choice but great for running off large quantities of plinking rounds.

77gr you want H4895, 8208, Varget, RE15

Worked up .2 grain increments from 24gn to 25.6 gn. Found about 24.9 -25.4 node then worked .1 gn increments between them and found best around 25.2 2 shots within 10es, 3rd shot 16 es, 4th shot 100es, 5th shot delayed powder ignition 250 fps slower. I loaded up more at 25.2 and found I can get the bullets to touch at 100 but one random one still goes 100 fps off and doesn't print.

That, combined with the delayed ignition ( think traditional muzzleloader) makes me wholly question my components. Would the ES issue be inherent to AR or am I just lost. Tthe rifle in question is a SPEC arms defender. https://www.specarmsllc.com/defender-series.

Additionally, my scale reads to .02 gn. It's an old scientific one. I have used this scale to load a consistent SD under 10 in my 300 win.

 

[magtech]

I picked up 200 77gn nosler CC and have not loaded for it yet. I figure if I'm going to load those I should get good components to go with it.

 

[padom]

Worked up .2 grain increments from 24gn to 25.6 gn. Found about 24.9 -25.4 node then worked .1 gn increments between them and found best around 25.2 2 shots within 10es, 3rd shot 16 es, 4th shot 100es, 5th shot delayed powder ignition 250 fps slower. I loaded up more at 25.2 and found I can get the bullets to touch at 100 but one random one still goes 100 fps off and doesn't print.

That, combined with the delayed ignition ( think traditional muzzleloader) makes me wholly question my components. Would the ES issue be inherent to AR or am I just lost. Tthe rifle in question is a SPEC arms defender. https://www.specarmsllc.com/defender-series.

Additionally, my scale reads to .02 gn. It's an old scientific one. I have used this scale to load a consistent SD under 10 in my 300 win.

You loaded to a node? What indicated it was a node? You said small groups....nodes are identified by group size. Want to make sure we are on the same page.

You had consistent POI between 24.9 -25.6??? Also a 100fps swing something else is wrong. Hand weigh charges? On what scale? Is the powder wet? Something isnt right

 

[magtech]

I chose my node by fps dispersion. So from 24-24.9 the fps rose steadily from high 2600-2700. From 24.9-25.3-ish the fps settled around 2800-2850 fps. 25.4 jumped up around 2900 fps 25.6 was around 3k fps.

 

[magtech]

Scale is a Denver Instruments XE-300. I run a 5-0-5 beam scale concurrent with this and they both agree. The xe-300 has proven itself over multiple calibers so I hesitate to think that is the issue.

while trying to diagnose ES issues I did load my oal longer to get it over mag length and closer to the lands, but the random ES issues remained.

Could my Chrono battery need replaced ??

I still am going to get new powder n primers. All recommendations are welcome.

 

[magtech]

I chose my node by fps dispersion. So from 24-24.9 the fps rose steadily from high 2600-2700. From 24.9-25.3-ish the fps settled around 2800-2850 fps. 25.4 jumped up around 2900 fps 25.6 was around 3k fps.

My load development process is ice type over my Chrono. I load 5 of each charge weight and then shoot one of each weight(24 wait, 24.2 wait, 24.4 wait, 24 wait, etc) waiting 2 minutes between. Temp was 35f with 5 mph wind. Rifle and bullets sat in the weather 30 minutes before shooting. I had the same ES issue over multiple days.

 

[padom]

My load development process is ice type over my Chrono. I load 5 of each charge weight and then shoot one of each weight(24 wait, 24.2 wait, 24.4 wait, 24 wait, etc) waiting 2 minutes between. Temp was 35f with 5 mph wind. Rifle and bullets sat in the weather 30 minutes before shooting. I had the same ES issue over multiple days.

There is another thread going on about this very method of load development. Do an OCW and get back with us..

Dan Newberry's OCW Load Development System

Dan Newberry OCW or Optimal Charge Weight Load Development method or system for handloading, reloading, bullets, brass, powder, primers, accurate handloads.

optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com

 

[magtech]

Wife is getting her wisdom teeth pulled. I was going to go component shopping while she's out later... What's the consensus on best powder/primer combo for 77gn that meters easily(consistently!)

 

[padom]

Wife is getting her wisdom teeth pulled. I was going to go component shopping while she's out later... What's the consensus on best powder/primer combo for 77gn that meters easily(consistently!)

Your best bet is 8208XBR. Not going to meter like H335 but best 77gr powder that still meters. A lot of us use it in our Dillons

 

[Lightning8]

I am using TAC with 77gr Nosler Custom Competition in my Dillon 550 in 223 - meters well.

 

[XLR308]

Since you didn't state what primers you were using could you verify that please.
Years ago I was having some consistency issues similar to what you described with ball powder.
Once I switched over to a magnum primer it settled right down, milsurp ball powders in 223 I have used nothing but magnum primers since and no issues since switching.

 

[Lightning8]

I am using TAC with 77gr Nosler Custom Competition in my Dillon 550 in 223 - meters well.

I was using S&B Small Rifle Primers but I used up my supply so moved to CCI 450s. Used this in ARs and bolts.

 

[magtech]

Since you didn't state what primers you were using could you verify that please.
Years ago I was having some consistency issues similar to what you described with ball powder.
Once I switched over to a magnum primer it settled right down, milsurp ball powders in 223 I have used nothing but magnum primers since and no issues since switching.

CCI small rifle. It's old stock so I'm going to get rid of it and move to New ones. I'm open to recommendations.

 

[padom]

CCI small rifle. It's old stock so I'm going to get rid of it and move to New ones. I'm open to recommendations.

Primers dont go bad, unless they werent stored properly. Im using primers that are close to 10yr old without any issues.

 

[XLR308]

CCI small rifle. It's old stock so I'm going to get rid of it and move to New ones. I'm open to recommendations.

May not be anything wrong with the primers themselves just possibly the wrong ones for the application. If they are 400's I would look into getting some 450's or the milspec equivalent.
The latter two are basically the same thing, both are a magnum small rifle primer and both have a thicker cup and will handle pressure better.
The temps you were shooting in May have also added to some of the issue if you were using a cci400, not really cold but not an id3al combination either.

 

[Moose]

I have had good luck with R-15 and heavy bullets.