223 Build load development

[SWprotected]

Rifle trued 700 action
Barrel Criterion Remage 223 Rem match 26" Varmint 1:7 twist
KRG Bravo
Vortex Diamondback tactical 6-24x50

Just finish putting this together Monday, took it to the range and shot about 30 rounds through it. I wasn't impressed at all with the way it shot but the ammo was not loaded for this rifle so I didn't think it would be great but still I was disappointed. I loaded some rounds to test Tuesday using Federal once fired brass, Berger 85.5 Hybrids, H4895 powder 22.8-24.0gr , CCI 450 primers. COAL 2.50".
Went to the range yesterday to test and chrono, found a couple of loads with single digit SDs but groups still sucked. I did shoot my 6.5 after just to make sure it wasnt shooter error and was shooting .5 to .7" groups with that rifle. I plan on going home this evening and checking all torque settings for action, scope, and barrel to make sure I didn't miss something and that everything is tight. Then I plan to load more ammo to test.
Using Sierra 80 SMKs since I have plenty on hand. I have Reloder 15, H4895, and XBR 8208 for powders. My plan is to do a ladder with each powder keeping the other components the same.
With components being hard to come by I would like to find a good load sooner rather than later. My plans for this rifle will be shooting steel to 1K and just something to shoot at the range for practice. Any suggestions?

 

[Dogtown]

I've had similar experiences in the past, especially when I was still kind of inexperienced with reloading. For that reason I always made sure I had a little stash of proven factory ammo to use as a control group (eg Black Hills .223, FGMM .308, etc). Doing a once-over on all of your torque settings, as you did, is also a good step to remove any possible variables.

Switching to a different bullet, like the 80 SMKs you mention, is another good way to test because there are just some barrels that are picky about specific bullets. For example, I had a .338LM barrel that loved 250 Scenars and 300 OTMs, but 100 rounds of Hornady 285s wouldn't group for shit.

 

[SWprotected]

I've had similar experiences in the past, especially when I was still kind of inexperienced with reloading. For that reason I always made sure I had a little stash of proven factory ammo to use as a control group (eg Black Hills .223, FGMM .308, etc). Doing a once-over on all of your torque settings, as you did, is also a good step to remove any possible variables.

Switching to a different bullet, like the 80 SMKs you mention, is another good way to test because there are just some barrels that are picky about specific bullets. For example, I had a .338LM barrel that loved 250 Scenars and 300 OTMs, but 100 rounds of Hornady 285s wouldn't group for shit.

I have a bunch of factory stuff but its just plinking ammo for my ARs, some factory match ammo would be nice though.

 

[pmclaine]

+/- a tenth or three @ 23 grains with 8208XBR.

 

[SWprotected]

+/- a tenth or three @ 23 grains with 8208XBR.

Thanks, that is a new powder for me so That is good to know.

 

[bunsen27]

I'm just received my second .223Rem Criterion Remage from James last week. It's a 1 in 8" Wylde chambered barrel. For it's predecessor I had found multiple loads that worked. Looks like you want to shoot heavies. I see 8208XBR in your inventory, do you have any Lapua or LC brass and 77gr SMK's by chance? ~23.1gr of XBR in LC brass over a CCI 43 loaded to slightly under mag length is a known load.

 

[SWprotected]

I don't have any Lapua brass, I bought 1000 Federal once fired that I am using. I do have some 77 TMKs but not the SMKs. I also have some 75 ELDMs I may try but for now I figured I will try the 80SMK with the different powders so I am not changing but one variable at a time. I will probably try them all eventually but for now the 80 SMK is what I have the most of. If I remember correctly COAL to the lands with the 80 SMK is 2.53 and I can load to a little over 2.50 in the magazine.

 

[Dogtown]

I would switch bullets before powders, but that's just me.

FWIW, 24gr of TAC loaded at mag length is my go to 77SMK/TMK load.

 

[Dthomas3523]

“Groups still sucked”


Did you do a seating depth test with the powder charges that produced the desired sd/es numbers?

 

[SWprotected]

No I haven't done a seating depth test yet. usually I will do that if the groups are decent but these were so far out I didn't bother. I may revisit this combination later and try it though.

 

[RogueTanker]

I just went thru literally the same thing with my Trued action and same criterion barrel.

I shot 75 eldm with Varget, Xbr and h4895 and the best I could get was just at an moa. I shot 24gr Varget with berger 80.5 FBs and got a touch under.

I switched to 88gr eldms and they shoot lights out (for me) around 1/2 inch with no problem in LC12 brass. I settled on 25.6 grs @ 2850. Hot load, but it shoots well.

My .02¢

 

[SWprotected]

I just went thru literally the same thing with my Trued action and same criterion barrel.

I shot 75 eldm with Varget, Xbr and h4895 and the best I could get was just at an moa. I shot 24gr Varget with berger 80.5 FBs and got a touch under.

I switched to 88gr eldms and they shoot lights out (for me) around 1/2 inch with no problem in LC12 brass. I settled on 25.6 grs @ 2850. Hot load, but it shoots well.

My .02¢

Thanks for the info, I have 100 88s they just looked like they would be seated way down in the case at mag length. I know lots of guys love Varget but I can't find it locally.

 

[RogueTanker]

Thanks for the info, I have 100 88s they just looked like they would be seated way down in the case at mag length. I know lots of guys love Varget but I can't find it locally.

I loaded mine at @ 1.985 CBTO, fifteen thou off lands.

 

[whatsupdoc]

LOL, same shit R700 Criterion barrel Bravo stock same issues. First check the action fit in the chassis.
My example had an issue with the action screws not lining up correctly.

With the rifle vertical and the front action screw just snug enough to keep the action in place the rear screw would not just screw screw in.
The rear hole in the aluminum chassis was fine but the matching hole in the butt stock was off so I had to make some adjustments so that the rear screw would fit. Once I did that my groups were much better. The rifle wanted to shoot It would cloverleaf 3 three then put 2 somewhere else.

You may not have this issue but its a simple check and does not cost any ammo.

 

[SWprotected]

LOL, same shit R700 Criterion barrel Bravo stock same issues. First check the action fit in the chassis.
My example had an issue with the action screws not lining up correctly.

With the rifle vertical and the front action screw just snug enough to keep the action in place the rear screw would not just screw screw in.
The rear hole in the aluminum chassis was fine but the matching hole in the butt stock was off so I had to make some adjustments so that the rear screw would fit. Once I did that my groups were much better. The rifle wanted to shoot It would cloverleaf 3 three then put 2 somewhere else.

You may not have this issue but its a simple check and does not cost any ammo.

Thanks for the information something else to check for sure. Everything seemed to fit as it should but I will be double checking.

 

[Dthomas3523]

No I haven't done a seating depth test yet. usually I will do that if the groups are decent but these were so far out I didn't bother. I may revisit this combination later and try it though.

You can make most anything shoot small groups with seating depth.

Things like this is why people report having “finicky” barrels or taking a while to figure out a load.

You likely already had a powder node based on your chrono numbers. All you need to do what tune it to your barrel via seating.

Waiting for something to shoot somewhat well is basically just waiting on chance that your load and seating depth was luckily in tune with the barrel to begin with.

 

[Lionsbreath]

Rifle trued 700 action
Barrel Criterion Remage 223 Rem match 26" Varmint 1:7 twist
KRG Bravo
Vortex Diamondback tactical 6-24x50

Just finish putting this together Monday, took it to the range and shot about 30 rounds through it. I wasn't impressed at all with the way it shot but the ammo was not loaded for this rifle so I didn't think it would be great but still I was disappointed. I loaded some rounds to test Tuesday using Federal once fired brass, Berger 85.5 Hybrids, H4895 powder 22.8-24.0gr , CCI 450 primers. COAL 2.50".
Went to the range yesterday to test and chrono, found a couple of loads with single digit SDs but groups still sucked. I did shoot my 6.5 after just to make sure it wasnt shooter error and was shooting .5 to .7" groups with that rifle. I plan on going home this evening and checking all torque settings for action, scope, and barrel to make sure I didn't miss something and that everything is tight. Then I plan to load more ammo to test.
Using Sierra 80 SMKs since I have plenty on hand. I have Reloder 15, H4895, and XBR 8208 for powders. My plan is to do a ladder with each powder keeping the other components the same.
With components being hard to come by I would like to find a good load sooner rather than later. My plans for this rifle will be shooting steel to 1K and just something to shoot at the range for practice. Any suggestions?

I just put together the exact rifle/barrel together a couple months ago, except mine’s a 24”
Mine shoots extremely well @ 24.1 Varget, CCI 450’s, Lapua, and 77 SMKs..Looking forward to trying the 85.5’s!

 

[SWprotected]

You can make most anything shoot small groups with seating depth.

Things like this is why people report having “finicky” barrels or taking a while to figure out a load.

You likely already had a powder node based on your chrono numbers. All you need to do what tune it to your barrel via seating.

Waiting for something to shoot somewhat well is basically just waiting on chance that your load and seating depth was luckily in tune with the barrel to begin with.

I am sure you're right, I took notes from that range trip so I will look at my notes and load some more to try at different lengths.

 

[Mr Tibbs]

SWprotected: here’s a little tip for you Hodgdon's 4895 doesn’t need CCI-450 primer for ignition.
Try going to standard SRP, unless your trying to load to 556 pressures ,that could help you obtain the results you seek .