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.223 eldm
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The 73gr is the biggest ELD-M you are going to fit at AR mag length.
TxSteel is correct on the 73’s being as heavy as you can go in an AR with the eld’s. My AR loves them, they have a good BC for weight and do very well out to 800 yards.
The heaviest ELD-M you're going to run in 223 at mag length is the 73gr. The 75gr and 80gr both put the ogives well below the case mouth.
The 77gr TMK has a better BC and tolerates jump better. I tested both in two barrels (18" BA and 24" BHW) and the TMK's did well but I couldn't get the ELD's to shoot even remotely acceptable in either barrel.
The Berger 77gr OTM's outshoot all the other 75-77gr class bullets I've used. They don't have a super high BC and they're a little more money that most other bullets but the accuracy and consistency is just stupid. My trued BC with them is .381 G1.
My train of thought is that 223 at AR15 mag length is a 600 yard round at best with any of these bullets, sure the supersonic range is further but beyond 600 yards is where hit ratio really starts to fall apart hard in real world conditions. None of the heavies that will fit in the mag have some wicked BC that really sets itself apart from the rest therefor I consider it splitting hairs and I choose the one that shoots the best.
The 77gr TMK has a better BC and tolerates jump better. I tested both in two barrels (18" BA and 24" BHW) and the TMK's did well but I couldn't get the ELD's to shoot even remotely acceptable in either barrel.
The Berger 77gr OTM's outshoot all the other 75-77gr class bullets I've used. They don't have a super high BC and they're a little more money that most other bullets but the accuracy and consistency is just stupid. My trued BC with them is .381 G1.
My train of thought is that 223 at AR15 mag length is a 600 yard round at best with any of these bullets, sure the supersonic range is further but beyond 600 yards is where hit ratio really starts to fall apart hard in real world conditions. None of the heavies that will fit in the mag have some wicked BC that really sets itself apart from the rest therefor I consider it splitting hairs and I choose the one that shoots the best.
I’ve done it in ADT mags, they will take a OAL of 2.310. I don’t have my notes in front of me but the velocity sucked due to the case capacity being reduced by the bullet. They did shoot good though
I ran 77 TMK bullets on my AR at mag length. Velocity was about 2700 with XBR powder. I was able to make hits at 740 yards. Barrel was a 20 inch white oak . Thanks.
Case capacity wasn't an issue for me. I tried CFE223 and PP2000MR for ball powders and there was still powder shaking around in the case at max charges. I tried RL15 and Varget and they were both crunching at max charges but no more than 77gr SMK's, Nosler CC's, or Berger OTM's with the same charge.
Black Hills has a factory load with them that's mag length too. A friend shoots them and they run great, he's getting over 2800fps from a 20" barrel.
Awesome....this confirms my results as well. I really hoped the factory Hornady 73gr ELM ammo would shoot well out of my JP 20" Wylde chamber 1/8......but it was horrible.
There is a Defender 69gr SMK and a Copper Creek 77gr Berger that shoot amazing out of it.
The Copper Creek Berger averages 2586 fps......kinda slow but crazy accurate.
The Defender 69gr SMK averages 2804 fps and equally accurate.
Do you think a CLE chamber in an AR would like the ELD better?
="USMC 308, post: 7073579, member: 1249"]Awesome....this confirms my results as well. I really hoped the factory Hornady 73gr ELM ammo would shoot well out of my JP 20" Wylde chamber 1/8......but it was horrible.
There is a Defender 69gr SMK and a Copper Creek 77gr Berger that shoot amazing out of it.
The Copper Creek Berger averages 2586 fps......kinda slow but crazy accurate.
The Defender 69gr SMK averages 2804 fps and equally accurate.
Do you think a CLE chamber in an AR would like the ELD better?[/QUOTE]
iF CLE cham
Idk if CLE chamber will shoot any better with elds
There is a Defender 69gr SMK and a Copper Creek 77gr Berger that shoot amazing out of it.
The Copper Creek Berger averages 2586 fps......kinda slow but crazy accurate.
The Defender 69gr SMK averages 2804 fps and equally accurate.
Do you think a CLE chamber in an AR would like the ELD better?[/QUOTE]
iF CLE cham
Idk if CLE chamber will shoot any better with elds
My 77gr Berger load is pretty slow too, 2620 fps in the 18" but it shoots knots and has a single digit ES. This is with Varget which hands down performed the best. CFE and PP2000MR gave higher velocity, CFE lots higher, and accuracy was good with PP2000MR and ok with CFE but just not as good as Varget and ES/SD was nowhere close to the same. ES with CFE was terrible which has kinda been a trend for me.
I have zero technical experience or knowledge on the CLE chamber. I'm assuming you're talking about a Compass Lake chamber though. I had a barrel once upon a time from them and I remember it shooting great but it was before I was ever loading and ELD's came about. I couldn't even tell you if the chamber was anything different from a typical 223 chamber, but it did eat up Black Hills 77gr SMK blue box.
I don't put too much thought into chambers and freebore on 223 AR barrels. As long as it doesn't have a long freebore for single feeding 90's seated way out I don't care. The magazine restrictions limit the performance so much that I just plan on shooting a jump tolerant bullet and call it a day. There's no room to chase a growing throat and if you do chamber short so you could chase the throat so much case capacity would be sacrificed and the ogive would be below the case mouth too so it wouldn't matter. The quality of the barrel blank used, and the machining are of far more importance to me.
73 eld-m’s shoot fantastic out of the Rainier Ultra match barrels.
I tried the 77TMK in 2 Rainier Ultra match and 1 Larue stealth barrel and didn’t have good results. Could barely break 1moa whereas the 73 eld’s were under .4moa.
I tried the 77TMK in 2 Rainier Ultra match and 1 Larue stealth barrel and didn’t have good results. Could barely break 1moa whereas the 73 eld’s were under .4moa.
That is interesting about your JP 20" not liking the Hornady factory 73gr ELD-M Match ammo. My 18" JP shoots this stuff sub MOA. I don't know the Lot# I have, but will check. It is the new white box with bullseye graphic, not the older brown box stuff though for reference. I also tested some Hornady 75gr BTHP Match ammo and it was around 1.5 MOA in my JP. I've also had good success with Nosler 69gr CC bullets in the JP.
Yes and no. I use ASC stainless mags, cut the front out and get 2.35" OAL. But the 75 ELD's still wouldn't shoot that far from the lands so I removed some material from the front of the magwell and now load them at 2.41" OAL. My 75gr load at around 2900 fps makes my previous 73 ELD mag length load look pretty pathetic.
Man, that is weird. I went back and looked at my targets from the range day when I tested the Hornady 73gr ELD. I was also testing Hornady Black 75gr Match, Federal Berger 73gr Match, and Black Hills 77gr TMK.
Of those, the Federal 73gr Bergers were the best, but I was getting 5 round groups around and under .5 moa. When changing to the ELD, I immediately noticed the groups opening up to over 1 moa or more. I would switch to one of the other ammo brands for the next group and it would tighten back to the .5 range again. Back and forth with this procedure for a few groups but it stayed consistent. The 73gr ELD round was not grouping well. Note, I was not firing in rapid succession and allowed cooling time.
The factory Hornady was the brown box 73gr ELD, not the white box, but I think that change was purely cosmetic. When transitioning from brown box 6.5CM 140 gr ELD to the new white box, I noticed no POI shift or anything to indicate there was a change in formula for the round.
I still have some of that ammo, maybe I'll take it out and retest it. I think the initial test was the 2nd range day for that new rifle.....it had maybe 100 rounds through it. It is seasoned now with just over 1600 rounds.
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Yes that is indeed odd. I forgot to check my Lot#'s but I do have one of the older brown box lots that I have not tested yet. I will do so this weekend and report back. Although I agree the load recipe is most likely the same between the different packaging.
One oddity I have observed when testing different .223Rem loads back to back is dependent on the powder type of the previous load it may affect the load you are testing. I first observed this going from a test load w/ CFE223 back to a know sub-MOA load w/ W748. It looked like a shotgun for 5 rounds. I think it was the copper removal agent in the CFE. I've also observed this going between extruded powders, such as Varget, to ball powders such as TAC or W748. Moral of the story, maybe start this round of testing with a cleanish barrel just to eliminate one more variable.
I have no idea why this photo uploaded rotated 90 off axis. Spin it 90 widdershins for correct orientation.
One oddity I have observed when testing different .223Rem loads back to back is dependent on the powder type of the previous load it may affect the load you are testing. I first observed this going from a test load w/ CFE223 back to a know sub-MOA load w/ W748. It looked like a shotgun for 5 rounds. I think it was the copper removal agent in the CFE. I've also observed this going between extruded powders, such as Varget, to ball powders such as TAC or W748. Moral of the story, maybe start this round of testing with a cleanish barrel just to eliminate one more variable.
I have no idea why this photo uploaded rotated 90 off axis. Spin it 90 widdershins for correct orientation.
I am also looking for a high bc bullet for a 1-7 Krieger barrel and just ordered some 69 gr sierra tipped match kings. I want the plastic tip and they seem like a good compromise of weight and bc for mag length. Plus for some reason they were cheaper than the 77 tmk. Will be using them for prairie dogs.
This is somewhat true. It will start to really improve after about 50 rounds. And the energy will keep improving up until about 1000 rounds depending what barrel you are running and material. It will really start dealing after about 2500 rounds for a 223 win
I have a CLE chamber in an AR and if I load 75 GR Berger's they're in the lands before I get to mag length. COAL 2.250 .008 off the lands. CL 223 Chambers have shorter throats and 1.5* leades.
So eld's may not even be able to run much over mag length when single loading them?
I guess I should check this out?
The 75's run 2700' in my 20"
@USMC 308 I was able to shoot a quick group with each of the Lot#'s I have of the Hornady 73gr ELD-M's. Both were about MOA. Lot #'s are: #3171012 (new white box) and #3173334 (old brown box). The outlier in the second group is totally due to shooter error on my part. It was the 3rd shot of the group and I relaxed a little as I squeezed the trigger, thus it flew high. 
The POI shift between groups is due to a scope adjustment I made, not the ammo. Again rotate 90 left for correct viewing orientation.
The POI shift between groups is due to a scope adjustment I made, not the ammo. Again rotate 90 left for correct viewing orientation.
