223 for 1000 yard match?

[Jmccracken1214]

I was thinking of trying a 24” tikka 223 for a 1000 yard max steel match. Seems I SHOULD be able to get 80gr projectiles atleast 2800 fps
Ran some numbers and with a 7mph crosswind, at 1000 I’d be looking at 10.3 mils and 2.2 for wind.

My 6gt is 8.8 and 1.7 in the same environment with a 109 hybrid.

How big of a disadvantage would I be at going with the 223 over the 6gt?

 

[Kadams1563]

If you have a GT build I would recommend shooting that.

I too shoot a GT with a 108 ELD at 2930 and a .223 AI with a 80 ELD at 2870. The .223 AI shoots very well and I shoot it out to 1k frequently BUT if I had to choose I would take the GT.

The .223 AI just doesn’t make enough dirt splash sometimes to spot misses and it seems once I get past 700 it gets harder. Under 700 the .223AI is easy to get hits with.

 

[diggler1833]

Significant disadvantage. However *accuracy* with a .223, shooting an 80gr SMK is still very capable at 1K...if the shooter is capable. It did well on the 1K line in NRA and Service Rifle competition out of 20" rifles. Wind calls become much more crucial, and on a range that isn't littered with flags on both sides it will be harder to make those calls.

What it WILL NOT do, is make good splashes, or ring the crap out of the steel. Those 1K impact berms don't do much more than look like you flicked it with your finger when a round strikes. Wet ground or grassy soil and you are about guaranteed not to see anything past about 7 - 800.

6GT all day IMO.

 

[mark5pt56]

I'm working a load right now with the 80 smk, great bullet but you are handicapped vs. the GT. It will make your wind calls critical though. Do it, have fun, I've seen a good wind reader and a .223 beat out guys shooting heavier calibers who couldn't read the wind well.

 

[FimRire RongLifle]

I shoot 75s and 80 ELDMs. I find impacts easy to hear/see to 700 then it diminishes fast at 850+ on steel for feedback. I can see them to 850 but they are small and most targets dont ring that i can hear it past 700. I run a 26" and a can at 2820 with varget, other powder choices are likely faster. I enjoy the setup but the 6s are better suited for varying conditions. I save money in powder and buying projectiles when they are 29$ but not much else TBH, between lapua brass, br or match primers, etc the 6 isnt that much more expensive. 6gt and 6br are very good choices for the use case IMHO. ES/SD is tougher so far with 223 for me as well but its humbling in wind and good for exercise.

 

[Rob01]

My Tac division PRS .223 shoots 75 ELD-Ms at 2960fps from my 26" barrel so you should easily be able to get 2800fps with a 24" although it is a Tikka and they are known for slow barrels. Varget and XBR8208 will do it.

As to the disadvantage, of course you are compared to the 6mm with a better BC bullet but it's about why you want to do it. Just for fun and try something else then no reason not to try the .223. Load some up and shoot it in a match.

 

[mark5pt56]

It was actually funny, this kid looked like the stunt double in Canonball Run, the Japanese team. He has a tablet, punching in numbers, etc. plop down on his gun and pop the steel at 1k, 12" plate like clockwork, get back up and repeat.

 

[VSP968]

Here’s the difference between 85.5s going 2850. 700 yards (left) 1000 yards (right). 1K target got a repaint mid morning that day. Both targets had flashers.

224V bolt gun…

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

7-6.5PRC or 7 Sherman short would be good 1k cartridges. Will cut wind much better than the slower 6mm variants and 6.5cm. 6 prc is also a thing but it's going to burn up barrel too fast to be practical imo.

7mm has amazing bullet selection and can be ran in a short action match gun with just a barrel and bolt change.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

7-6.5PRC or 7 Sherman short would be good 1k cartridges. Will cut wind much better than the slower 6mm variants and 6.5cm. 6 prc is also a thing but it's going to burn up barrel too fast to be practical imo.

7mm has amazing bullet selection and can be ran in a short action match gun with just a barrel and bolt change.

7prc takes large rifle primers, and I couldn’t find any to buy around me if I tried.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

7 prc is long action. Different platform than your existing 6gt.

 

[jLorenzo]

I shoot 85.5s @ nearly 2900 at a 1,000y F class match. Wind can be tough but its good practice. Drop and wind is pretty much 6 br territory. I have also casually shot 80gr smks to 1150, without a flasher and any mirage good luck spotting hits. It will get there no problem though.

 

[Chickentoast]

From my experience bringing a few rifles out at a time, your difference in ballistics means the 6gt will get approx twice the hits @ 1K.

 

[flogxal]

VSP968's photos tell a good story on that drop in impact energy, I bet the distance between will be where your .223 is tossed by wind a lot more than the 6mm. At 1k those impacts look like .22LR hitting at 100yds! Fly specks. Unless you're good at wind or it's a calm day, you may find it frustrating at 1k. Or it may be right up your alley, challenge-wise. Only one way to know.

 

[AR-180]

I think the 6mm will have better ballistics. However, there are some really good 223 bullets that really lessen the gap.

My gf and I use 30” barrels on our 223 bolt guns. They work very well for us. Generally, 223 and 6mm guns wind up in different classes at our matches.

 

[Shoots 700's]

It will make you better at your wind calls.

 

[Ol Rob]

I won my first FT-R match with a .223. I was sending 80 gr VLD's close to 3000fps. But it was a rather calm day. When the wind picks up you will struggle, but that's the fun of it. It will make you a better wind reader.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

It would be fun but, you aren't going to compete with 6mm at 1000yds with 223.

You could definitely run it faster and help out some though with that length barrel.

 

[Wannashootit]

7prc takes large rifle primers, and I couldn’t find any to buy around me if I tried.

He said 7-6.5 PRC, just neck up the 6.5. Looking at this one myself.

 

[phantomskittles]

I love my 223, it is one of my favorite rifles to shoot. I can pretty closely match 6br ballistics with it. I push an 88 eldm at ~2840 and it takes around 8.5 mil at 1000 and 1.7 for wind. With that said it will definitely be at a disadvantage to a 6gt. Spotting splash is a big problem compared to a larger caliber. The gt would be excellent at 1k although compared to the 7-6.5 prc it would be the same comparison as the 223 to 6gt. I would say shoot the gt you have.

 

[NewsShooter]

I've taken my .223 out for fun to shoot practice out to 1K. Any wind and it gets difficult. I'm shooting 77 SMK's about 2850.

 

[dschr582]

I shot my 223 at a match that went from 400-1267 and my lack of prior shooting past 600 was the limiting factor. 68gr hornady bthp with tac at 3000 did pretty good out to 750 but then it fell off a cliff. At 1267 after the match(truing ballistics cuz things were off bad after 750) I needed 21.5 mils elevation and 3.5 mills of wind. It was fun practice and showed me how fast things can go sideways once you start pushing the envelope. Now I'm running 73eldms at 2750 with much better consistency at distance. Wish they were faster, but accuracy degrades quickly the faster I push em in my gun

 

[Turkeytider]

Significant disadvantage. However *accuracy* with a .223, shooting an 80gr SMK is still very capable at 1K...if the shooter is capable. It did well on the 1K line in NRA and Service Rifle competition out of 20" rifles. Wind calls become much more crucial, and on a range that isn't littered with flags on both sides it will be harder to make those calls.

What it WILL NOT do, is make good splashes, or ring the crap out of the steel. Those 1K impact berms don't do much more than look like you flicked it with your finger when a round strikes. Wet ground or grassy soil and you are about guaranteed not to see anything past about 7 - 800.

6GT all day IMO.

Our range is 500 in 100 yard increments. Each target set is backed by a dirt berm. Shooting my 223 at 400-500 yards, if the dirt is damp you see absolutely nothing when it comes to a miss.

 

[ma smith]

Our range is 500 in 100 yard increments. Each target set is backed by a dirt berm. Shooting my 223 at 400-500 yards, if the dirt is damp you see absolutely nothing when it comes to a miss.

Even with 22br and Valk etc which can hammer 85grs, guys shooting 22 cal projectiles all seem to complain about splash/RO scoring their hits at 1k+ distaces.

 

[Kadams1563]

I took the .223 AI out today to 1000 and in. Man such a fun cartridge. Also shot the 6GT as well.

Today the .223AI kicked the GT’s ass at distance but our winds here we’re going from 5mph to about 20 mph randomly. I’d be shooting a good group and then my impacts would be over a mil to the left lol.

I’d still take the GT if I was shooting past 700 or so. 700 and in the 80 eld’s are killing it.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

F Class match director near me shoots 1000 yards with his 223 (and 80gr VLDs). With Varget he uses 25.4gr Varget, and 25gr with N140.

He molly coats his bullets, uses LC brass, not sure what primer...

 

[Emerson0311]

The 223@1K dudes are in the same boat as the 22LR@300+ crew. Yup, it can be done well; it can be very frustrating though. Depends on your mental approach as to whether you find it fun.

 

[Potsy]

I shoot a .22BR and spotting hits on a beat up 1000 yard gong gets tough.
The one at Dead Zero is about 20” in diameter and heavy enough 95’s at 1525fps won’t move it.
Misses aren’t as bad. It think it does at least as well as the smaller 6mm’s as far as blowing up dirt.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

my daughter shoots a .223 in FClass that has a 28" criterion bull barrel. Been shooting 80gr Bergers with average 2920MV and a consistent sub-MOA at 800 using 24.3gr of IMR 8208. Her last match was a 588 out of 600.

I am switching her to CFE223 with the Berger 85.5. Initial testing has that 85.5 at 2960MV with 26gr and 2880MV with 25.5gr. Next is to refine my testing between 25.5 and 26gr in an effort to find that sweet spot. The key is that my .223 has a little more freebore than a normal .223 allowing me to keep the bullet from going too deep in the case.

she is a great little gun to shoot

 

[ma smith]

my daughter shoots a .223 in FClass that has a 28" criterion bull barrel. Been shooting 80gr Bergers with average 2920MV and a consistent sub-MOA at 800 using 24.3gr of IMR 8208. Her last match was a 588 out of 600.

I am switching her to CFE223 with the Berger 85.5. Initial testing has that 85.5 at 2960MV with 26gr and 2880MV with 25.5gr. Next is to refine my testing between 25.5 and 26gr in an effort to find that sweet spot. The key is that my .223 has a little more freebore than a normal .223 allowing me to keep the bullet from going too deep in the case.

she is a great little gun to shoot

Those are impressive speeds out of a .223. The Valk shooting 85.5 at 2,950 out of 26" IMHO is a near-pefect cartridge/bullet combo. IMHO if you can get a .223 going that fast (reliably/safely), you're going to be pretty happy with that rifle...

 

[oldrifleman]

my daughter shoots a .223 in FClass that has a 28" criterion bull barrel. Been shooting 80gr Bergers with average 2920MV and a consistent sub-MOA at 800 using 24.3gr of IMR 8208. Her last match was a 588 out of 600.

I am switching her to CFE223 with the Berger 85.5. Initial testing has that 85.5 at 2960MV with 26gr and 2880MV with 25.5gr. Next is to refine my testing between 25.5 and 26gr in an effort to find that sweet spot. The key is that my .223 has a little more freebore than a normal .223 allowing me to keep the bullet from going too deep in the case.

she is a great little gun to shoot

What freebore are you running?

 

[Stephen Bachiler]

I shoot 75s and 80 ELDMs. I find impacts easy to hear/see to 700 then it diminishes fast at 850+ on steel for feedback. I can see them to 850 but they are small and most targets dont ring that i can hear it past 700. I run a 26" and a can at 2820 with varget, other powder choices are likely faster. I enjoy the setup but the 6s are better suited for varying conditions. I save money in powder and buying projectiles when they are 29$ but not much else TBH, between lapua brass, br or match primers, etc the 6 isnt that much more expensive. 6gt and 6br are very good choices for the use case IMHO. ES/SD is tougher so far with 223 for me as well but its humbling in wind and good for exercise.

Yeah, I can't get my ES below 30 or SD below 13 with my .223 handloads. Starline Brass, Varget and 77gr SMKs.

On a separate note..out of my 22 inch barrel bolt gun I can't get the 77s and Varget above 2660ish. Intact I get cratered primers and STIFF bolt lift at 24grs. I am seating the 77grSMKs pretty long..1.95 CBTO and 24gr of varget is not compressed..

Any thoughts?

 

[GunnyUSMC]

What freebore are you running?

Freebore from reamer specs is .090

 

[oldrifleman]

Ok mine is slated for .80, do you think the 85.5 Berger is doable?

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Ok mine is slated for .80, do you think the 85.5 Berger is doable?

So.... i need to have someone check me on this

I think that SAAMI specs show a freebore of .0256. in reviewing my reamer specs, that same measurement comes to .090 freebore. that means that the freebore was pushed out an additional .065.

when you say that yours is slated for .80, are you referring to the freebore and should that number actually be .080?

If my measurements are correct and you are indeed referring to .080 freebore, i would think that you should be OK with the 85.5.

Again... i will defer to the experts on this thread to correct me.

 

[oldrifleman]

Yeah mine is a longer than standard and longer than Wylde freebore. Greg said it was a great cut for 80s level, just checking with some one who is already there on 85s. Thanks

 

[Zigjib]

80s is peak performance for the 223 in conventional barrel lengths (26" or less). 223 is capable to 1000y easy in normal conditions. We didn't drive these to absolute max (strong belief that if i'm sacrificing barrel and brass life i'm using the wrong cart). That's why the 80 VLD is slower than the 80 ELD-M. We couldn't get stability in the ES and SD as we tried to get higher until we hit crazy pressure.

 

[jhthyfd2]

I was thinking of trying a 24” tikka 223 for a 1000 yard max steel match. Seems I SHOULD be able to get 80gr projectiles atleast 2800 fps
Ran some numbers and with a 7mph crosswind, at 1000 I’d be looking at 10.3 mils and 2.2 for wind.

My 6gt is 8.8 and 1.7 in the same environment with a 109 hybrid.

How big of a disadvantage would I be at going with the 223 over the 6gt?

How did you make out? Did you use the 223 or the 6GT to reach 1,000?

 

[Jmccracken1214]

How did you make out? Did you use the 223 or the 6GT to reach 1,000?

Took the GT but only once.

Ended up getting a deal on a 16.5" 223 bolt gun, so I got it. Not going to be my 1000 yard rifle lol.

Ive also got a 24" 6.5CM thatll will probably take over for 1000.

 

[jhthyfd2]

Took the GT but only once.

Ended up getting a deal on a 16.5" 223 bolt gun, so I got it. Not going to be my 1000 yard rifle lol.

Ive also got a 24" 6.5CM thatll will probably take over for 1000.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is my go too, I recently finished building my 300PRC! I’m driving out to South Dakota tomorrow to stretch her out!

 

[TicTacTex]

Took the GT but only once.

Ended up getting a deal on a 16.5" 223 bolt gun, so I got it. Not going to be my 1000 yard rifle lol.

Ive also got a 24" 6.5CM thatll will probably take over for 1000.

What did you end up getting?

Should try it at 1k anyway and let us know. Lol

 

[Jmccracken1214]

What did you end up getting?

Should try it at 1k anyway and let us know. Lol

Remington 700 sps tactical.
I had a xrs chassis here, so it worked out. Very fun to shoot. Just on the heavy side now.

 

[Mauser48]

Yeah, I can't get my ES below 30 or SD below 13 with my .223 handloads. Starline Brass, Varget and 77gr SMKs.

On a separate note..out of my 22 inch barrel bolt gun I can't get the 77s and Varget above 2660ish. Intact I get cratered primers and STIFF bolt lift at 24grs. I am seating the 77grSMKs pretty long..1.95 CBTO and 24gr of varget is not compressed..

Any thoughts?

What rifle are you shooting them out of? In my 24" bolt gun I was getting right about 2700 fps with 24g of varget and a 77 smk. No pressure signs and I was seated at 2.260 coal. This is in a custom action and barrel. In my experience factory chambered guns seem to show pressure signs sooner.