Hunting & Fishing .223 For Deer Hunting

[thejeep]

I "Rammed" this tiny sc deer last November at 50 mph with my Dodge 1500. Full broadside right in the grill.
Dont know how far it took me to get stopped but he was in the ditch right beside me so that's how far the impact knocked him.
Not only was he still alive, but when I went back to get my pistol to finish him off he got up and ran off through the woods. A neighbor found him later on in the morning about 100 yards away.
Wonder how much kinetic energy a Ram 1500 going 50 mph generates?

roughly like 490,000lb f ft

 

[diggler1833]

Well, I took my FN DMR II out last night (5.56) hog hunting as I gave my F-I-L my 6.8 to shoot. I was using 64gr Speer Gold Dots.

I got into a sounder on a friend's place.
Looking at the video I know I connected with five hogs...four of which took multiple hits. I may have overlooked and lost a downed one in the tall grass, but at least one took two solid hits and kept running off property. Only three were found, but again the grass was high. The final pig was a ~125lb boar that got separated, and came trotting towards me after I turned the recorder off. It took three hits to die...the third being an "I give up" head shot.

20-25% loss rate is what I experienced the first time I made a go at hog hunting with the .223, and this time out was no different. Follow up shots are indeed faster, but it's a bit disheartening to see them buck, spin, and take off again.

I got spoiled using a .308 this past month. 19 individual hogs shot...19 hogs recovered. With the 6.8 this year I've recovered 47 hogs while losing five that I know were hit (89% success rate).

I'm not bashing the .223. I stated earlier in this post that I believed it effective with good shot placement at reasonable ranges. However I wanted to throw in some real world data that I've collected.

 

[AE287]

Yeah, there really is not much comparison when it comes to .308 vs .223 on deer/hogs. Both will kill, but the .308 is on a totally different level.

 

[Snuby642]

Were your 308 and 6.8 both running fmj ?

 

[Snuby642]

I think if harvesting one animal at a time your recovery rate would be higher.

Swatting running hogs you wish to recover it's not suprising the results with a 223.

It is out classed in that realm.

One at a time in the cns it will hold its own.

I'm not bashing crowd controll if warranted at all.

In your situation of over abundant destructive beasts I would remove my 223 and put on my 6.5g upper in an instant if that were the land owners wishes.

Imho

 

[RTH1800]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This exactly. When shooting multiple moving, escaping critters in poor light perfect shot placement becomes ok shot placement or less. Add a marginal caliber and the odds of recovery start dropping.

 

[Old Coach 67]

I like the Winchester 64 gr Power Point. It mushrooms well. I have tried Barnes TSX as well. Do not try a lung shot with the Barnes. I shot two does in the ribs and they never knew they were hit. Just continued walking about a 100 yds and fell over. Never seen anything like it. Barnes are great for shoulder shots. Usually breaks both shoulders ,stopping under the hide with minimal meat damage.

+1 on the Win 64 PP

 

[FalconII]

For the last 2 years all I hunted deer with was 223. I have taken several 200+ pound bucks with it.

My choice of factory ammunition for my 2 hunting AR15s, a 20" 1n8 Rock River heavy match barrel and a 18" 1n8 Ballistic Advantage SPR barrel is 62 gr. Federal Fusion SPs and Winchester 64 gr. Power Points. I prefer a lead soft point over a ballistic tip in 223 for deer or hogs.

Also I only neck or ear shoot a deer now with 223. I've shot a couple in the body, perfect heart/lung shot and they run 75 to 100 yards and there's not blood trail as the bullet rarely exits the other side. When cleaned, most bullets were just under the hide on opposite side. So I prefer the neck as they drop in their tracks. Also I never shoot at a deer over 150 yards with the 223 and I prefer 100 or less. I want to place that bullet in the right spot and have a clean ethical kill. If I'm not comfortable with the shot I will not take it. There is always tomorrow.

 

[deersniper]

I always lol that “ethics” apply to deer. But not coyote/fox/pigs/ghogs etc

 

[FalconII]

"Ethics" apply to every animal I shoot, hogs, yotes, squirrels, etc.

 

[RTH1800]

The 77 grain SMK’s will exit on most or all broad side or even reasonable angling shots. Leave a great blood trail.

The issue I see with the hunters I guide is that many are over confident in their shooting ability. Neck and head shots can leave gruesome but non fatal wounds. Punctured esophagus, shot off jaws etc. Heads and necks are subject to sudden and unpredictable movements. Poor target choice if others are available.

Expanding bullets of high BC aimed to enter the chest cavity and hopefully hit a shoulder on entry or exit are the reliable shot. What happens on one, five or twenty kills is not the entire answer. Shooting depredation for a year and keep honest records. That is the answer.

 

[Lange Carabine]

The 77 grain SMK’s will exit on most or all broads ice or even angling shots. Leave a great blood trail.

The issue I see with the hunters I guide is that many are over confident in their shooting ability. Neck and head shots can leave gruesome but non fatal wounds. Punctured esophagus, shot off jaws etc. Heads and necks are subject to sudden and unpredictable movements. Poor target choice if others are available.

Expanding bullets of high BC aimed to enter the chest cavity and hopefully hit a shoulder on entry or exit are the reliable shot. What happens on one, five or twenty kills is not the entire answer. Shooting depredation for a year and keep honest records. That is the answer.

Obviously this depradation shooting and record keeping thing only applies to certain people. Because some can do it for 40+ years and keep detailed records, save recovered bullets, take photographs, ect. and still be called a liar whose experiences defy all logic by some conceited jackass with a superiority complex who is unable to live with the fact that others are perfectly capable of accomplishing things that they havent or cant.

 

[RTH1800]

You assume far too much. I am here to share with those capable of learning.

 

[Jgault]

Not me bud. I got no problems at all with it.

+1, yes I know this is snipers hide but I haven’t taken a shot hunting over 150 yards in years. I use a 300 blk 9 inch barrel with 110 Nosler almost exclusively now. A 30 caliber varmint bullet fired at blackout speeds is absolutely devastating.

 

[Lange Carabine]

You assume far too much. I am here to share with those capable of learning.

Really? Go back to posts 37 and 41, read your own words again and tell me you didnt call me a liar.
Not only are you insinuating that I lied, you are accusing me of lying in part based on claims I never made. I never claimed to have killed hundreds of wild free range animals without losing even one, I truthfully stated that I've yet to lose one I shot with a .223 and fmj bullets. It appears that it is you who are assuming far too much. That and you need to brush up on your comprehensive reading skills.
You say you're here to share with those capable of learning? The insinuation I get, btw.
Well I'm here for more or less the same reason, but in my case I'm also here to learn from those that are capable of teaching.

 

[SilencedShooter11B]

I’ve killed all my deer since 2014 with a .223, all of them SC whitetails

I was using Winchester 64gr Power Points but switched to handloaded Barnes 62gr TTSX

My furthest range was 150yds (using a 3.5x/TA11 ACOG), neatest was about 60-70yds. Furthest one has gone after impact was less than 20 feet; the Barnes bullet was a total pass through and absolutely wrecked his lungs

 

[RTH1800]

Why the hostility? We disagree. Please continue to share your experience, some may find it informative. I may share mine as well.

 

[Lange Carabine]

I’ve killed all my deer since 2014 with a .223, all of them SC whitetails

I was using Winchester 64gr Power Points but switched to handloaded Barnes 62gr TTSX

My furthest range was 150yds (using a 3.5x/TA11 ACOG), neatest was about 60-70yds. Furthest one has gone after impact was less than 20 feet; the Barnes bullet was a total pass through and absolutely wrecked his lungs

You and me ain't that far apart. Ever hunt in Barnwell county?

 

[Lange Carabine]

Why the hostility? We disagree. Please continue to share your experience, some may find it informative. I may share mine as well.

I could ask you the same thing.
But, I'm willing to agree to disagree and move on.
I look forward to you sharing more of your experiences. I might learn something.

 

[SilencedShooter11B]

You and me ain't that far apart. Ever hunt in Barnwell county?

Norway is about as close as I’ve gotten. Some big ole bucks on those managed tracts

 

[duckhunter175]

Had so-so performance with the Hornady BTHP 'Black' ammo culling blackbuck does.

Made the switch over to 73gr ELDM Superformance-- not sure why I didn't do it sooner as I loved the Amax and use the ELDM in other cartridges.

Actually killed the biggest buck of my life with that round in my Noveske when I had to take it out thanks to an issue with my bolt gun-- he made it 20 yards total, 209 yard shot.

 

[Longshot85]

There's definitely a lot of variables that factor in when discussing .223 on deer.

Last fall my 6.5cm bolt gun was disassembled ....getting a new chassis, scope base, custom grip. Etc...i was too busy with work to get it all back together and rezeroed before opening day.

I decided to take my SPR inspired build out. This build is built around a WOA 18 in .223 Wylde SPR barrel ....nothing fancy and a 9 inch form 1 can. This rifle was zeroed with some IMI 77 grain Razorcore (used 77 SMK).

Short version of story: I took this SPR style setup out that I had collected dope on out to 750 yards ....to the deer stand in the woods.

I placed a shot perfectly in the vital "sweet spot" at 26 yards, deer stumbles...falls down...then runs off. Not much blood and deer was not recovered that day or the next despite several of us tracking the VERY LIGHT blood trail. The deer was found the next weekend about 300 yards away ......buzzards gave away the position.

Bottom line up front:
After seeing my results with 6.5CM I will not use .223 again.

I could have picked a better bullet and should have. I would have to see some results from my TMK handloads on other varmints to decide if I'd ever use again.

.223 77gr SMK @ 26 yards = deer runs off despite perfect placement

6.5CM 147gr ELD-M @ 632 yards = DRT with baseball size EXIT wound

I now have a 10.5 inch .300 BO ........doing research to see if I would consider something like the Barnes 110 gr black tip

 

[deersniper]

You would have better luck with a 50-60 grain vmax. Or a 55sp. Or a 77tmk.

200 yards or under on a stationary deer would have been a head or neck shot for me.

 

[RTH1800]

At 6:45 AM today my first hunter of the year (youth) killed a 250 pound buck at 430 yards with my Lone Peak Ti Fuzion Proof CF .223 AI 80 grain AMax. Perfect shot. Ran 80 yards.
I find the .223 uniformly effective when shot is properly placed.

 

[Longshot85]

You would have better luck with a 50-60 grain vmax.

200 yards or under on a stationary deer would have been a head or neck shot for me.

I agree 100% on better bullet selection and I SERIOUSLY debated the head or neck shot (I have have great success with both) but decided on a vitals shot because even though he was standing still he was moving his head around and was getting ready to run off.

 

[Longshot85]

At 6:45 AM today my first hunter of the year (youth) killed a 250 pound buck at 430 yards with my Lone Peak Ti Fuzion Proof CF .223 AI 80 grain AMax. Perfect shot. Ran 80 yards.
I find the .223 uniformly effective when shot is properly placed.

I don't doubt this at all and I appreciate you sharing. Where was the shot placed?

 

[RTH1800]

 

[RTH1800]

Shot was at next rib to back and hit shoulder on opposite side. Stopped in shoulder.

 

[wade2big]

I agree 100% on better bullet selection and I SERIOUSLY debated the head or neck shot (I have have great success with both) but decided on a vitals shot because even though he was standing still he was moving his head around and was getting ready to run off.

I always shoot at the point of the shoulder where shoulder and neck meet. The deer will drop in its tracks regardless of caliber. We have many dead deer taken with a 30 carbine and .223 by the little ones shooting right here. 125yds or so and in. The bad thing is your tracking skills may get rusty.
Red marks the spot.

 

[SilencedShooter11B]

Shot was at next rib to back and hit shoulder on opposite side. Stopped in shoulder.

after A week in the woods and not freezing temps I bet that was a pretty foul recovery

 

[RTH1800]

?
Took only the time to walk over there. Week in the woods?

 

[SilencedShooter11B]

?
Took only the time to walk over there. Week in the woods?

Apologies, meant to quote Longshot’s post about not recovering the animal til the following weekend, not yours.

 

[RTH1800]

“That explains everything”

 

[Longshot85]

Yes it was, and I was pissed at myself. It was the first deer that I had not recovered. All of my previous are literally DRT.

Lesson learned.......i was able to recover the head/rack which I am gonna do a euro and put in my reloading room

 

[squishee]

redacted

 

[gopherslayer]

I’ve used 53gr TSX, 62gr TSX, 63gr sp AE factory loads, and 50gr Vmax. Put it in the slats and they die. Closest shot was probably 10 yards and longest was 220 yards. 63gr had 18” of penetration from last rib to offside shoulder. TSX have all exited. Farthest a deer has ran was under 40 yards and left a blood trail.

62 gr TSX

 

[Shane Miller]

To Everyone That Replied :

Thanks for the time you took to leave a reply.
I have some really good leads on ammo and will have to test them out. I say this because every rifle shoots the same ammo differently. My main concern was choosing a good hunting round in such a small caliber. I have never used such a small round for hunting. While I enjoy hunting , I dont enjoy inflicting needless pain on the animal I'm culling, which those replying seemed to understand.
This forum has alot of knowledgeable members and im always happy to get input here.

So, I really appreciate it ya'll and once again, thanks so much.

 

[3-0-hate]

I can confirm that a 68gr Barnes TTSX works a treat out to at least 325 yards if you do your part.

 

[wvfarrier]

I have started using Lehigh bullets. I shot a deer last year with a 9mm and 45 acp using their bullets. Neither made it 30 yards. The bullets ate awesome. Watch their videos.

.224 High Velocity Controlled Chaos Copper 62gr Bullet

www.lehighdefense.com

Here is a video i did with 223 at distance on deer

Im also a Lehigh fan for both 223 and 300 AAC. The 64 Grain CC out of my AR absolutely smashes whitetail.

 

[SOBRYDEL]

I’ve hunted with a Rem 700 in .223 for a couple years now on everything from coyotes to hogs and deer in NW Okla. The lease we are on is pretty dense with limited distance for shots. I load 65 Sierra Game Kings with 25 grains of Varget. The Game King bullet is devastating on game. I’ve got shots with the .223 from 35 yards with the longest being 130 yards with no issues recovering game.
With the right bullets and in the dense area we are hunting right now, I love using the .223.
We have some areas to hunt where shots could basically be as far as you can see. When in these areas, I take a 7mm-08 up to my 7mm STW.

 

[nagantguy]

Read this thread when it was new, been thinking of sharing my thoughts on the subject. But I saw several posts that confirm what I think. A well constructed projectile placed proper with in reasonable ranges makes meat!
my own 223/5.56 deer hunting was limited to a few North Carolina and a few Florida Deer in the late 1990s, while I’m the Marine Corps the only rifle I had in my possession was a mini 14 ranch rifle. 62-64 grain soft points to the neck inside 150 yards and all 5 deer fell DRT. I saw the .223 for what it was a small bore speedy round that works for deer sized game in a pinch. Better tools are available for the job sure , but I’ve seen a very large very pissed bull with a broken leg put down with one shot behind the ear with a .223 fmj and the second largest wild hog I’ve ever seen killed was wounded fighting with dogs so definitely worked up and full of adrenaline go lights out from one round of 223 fmj between the eyes. Just my 2 cents and observations .

 

[TheDalmore]

i read those 77's should ninji star above 2500ish fps so let that guide your range.

I load my 77 SMKs to run 2700fps and have never had an issue. In fact, if I go over .25 MOA with them I feel disappointed in myself.

 

[army_eod]

Some states will not allow .223 for deer. Maybe there is a reason?

 

[tmason1]

Very doable but really not ethical however Good bullet and shot placement is Key

 

[RTH1800]

One thing that I see here and elsewhere is the repeated mention of head and neck shots. I am not a fan due to the wounding issue but that is not the main point. The point is that any CNS shot will result in immedate incapatition of the animal with any cartridge that can penetrate 1-4", including a 22 short.
CNS shots are not relevant to determining if a cartridge is adequate for hunting a specific animal. The test is if a center mass hit generally kills the critter in a reasonable time to recover.

 

[SilencedShooter11B]

Some states will not allow .223 for deer. Maybe there is a reason?

government overreach

 

[gunjunkie45]

One thing that I see here and elsewhere is the repeated mention of head and neck shots. I am not a fan due to the wounding issue but that is not the main point. The point is that any CNS shot will result in immedate incapatition of the animal with any cartridge that can penetrate 1-4", including a 22 short.
CNS shots are not relevant to determining if a cartridge is adequate for hunting a specific animal. The test is if a center mass hit generally kills the critter in a reasonable time to recover.

None of the deer I have taken with 5.56 were head or neck shots. All were anchoring shots through the front shoulder. Recovered 4 out of 5 bullets just under the skin on the exit side. 5th was a pass through due to the animal being slightly quartered away. That was the one that didn't drop. It made it roughly 100 yards. All were within 150 yards. That's my hard limit for the round. Right bullet and specific application. 70 grain Barnes tsx. I'm not against any caliber for hunting as long as you understand it's limits.

 

[Ryan Brownshoe]

I have successfully hunted whitetail with .223 for the past 5 years. All the deer I have taken have been with a 70gr Barnes tsx bullet out of an 11.5” BCM AR Pistol. I have no reason to doubt the round I’m using, however thought I would shoot a few different weighted bullets to see what kind of expansion I’m getting. The results are as followed..

From left to right: 70gr Barnes tsx out of a 20” Noveske, 70gr tsx out of a 11.5” BCM, 62gr ttsx 20”, 62gr ttsx 11.5”, 55gr federal law enforcement soft point 20”, 55gr 11.5”






All bullets were shot through a 1 gallon jug into wet newspaper, at 40 yards.

Barnes 70gr tsx with 24gr Varget
Barnes 62gr ttsx with 25.1gr Varget

Overall I’m not disappointed with the expansion from the little 11.5” BCM. I also think I can load those 62gr a little hotter for more expansion.

Hope you all found this interesting!

 

[shax2lex]

I took the 556 and shot a doe. 77gr SMKs did the trick. I did do a headshot. I didn’t want it to run any farther.

 

[223hp]

Morning All;

I'm not real skilled at finding stuff in here.... so if this question has been asked before .... I apologize.

I decided to try my hand at .223 deer hunting.
I will be using either a 16" or 20" barrel with a 1:9 twist.
Since I have never hunted with a .223 ; I was looking for a round that would put the deer down if i do my part. IF possible ; a few suggestions would help as not every rifle likes the same ammo.

I'm not looking to get into an ethical debate on the use of it, as its legal here and just wanted to try something new. But i posted the question so that if i do my part; it will be an ethical kill with as least amount of pain as possible.

Thanks to everyone that replies.... just incase I miss thanking someone before hand.

I have a Ruger mini 14 ranch 223 I use both HP'S and SP's in a 55gr fill my tags every year be aware that the HP's do more damage to your meat then the SP's and all my shots are 100 yrds or less open sights