223/for distance

[Ridgerunner60]

I am a relatively new shooter for distance. I am in need of some advice. I have a Howa 1500 with MDT HS3 chassis. It has a heavy varmint barrel in 1/12 twist. It shoots 55gr bullets very well but accuracy diminishes as the bullet size increases. So I want to change barrels to a heavy Palma barrel or MTU barrel at 1/7 twist. I am also looking to possibly pick one bullet (the best) and developing loads with it. I’m looking for advice on bullets, loads, barrel length and any other ideas. Thanks to all in advance!

 

[spife7980]

This howage https://patriotvalleyarms.com/cdm-barrel-nut-prefit-sale-22-caliber/
I found the 75eld to be a great match with the wylde chambering but anything 70-80 would be good.

If you want to shoot prs tac class then 77 is as heavy as you can go.

 

[BLEE]

Go 223AI, for more velocity and get a 7 twist prefit for heavier projectiles. You can continue to accurately fire SAAMI 223:

https://criterionbarrels.com/products/howa/howa-pre-fit-barrel/?v=7516fd43adaa

 

[Aftermath]

While I LOVE my 223AI with 80gr Berger VLD's and the yotes don't seem to like it too much even out to 550 yards, it does require that you reload for the ultimate in both accuracy and velocity. This one is a straight taper Krieger 1:7. I can fire most 223/5.56 ammo with acceptable accuracy and am left with fire formed brass for the 223AI.
That being said, if you are not currently reloading for something (as in ANY caliber) for accuracy, I would not recommend this be your first foray. The Wylde chamber will allow you to shoot pretty much anything and the 1:7 twist will allow you to shoot pretty much everything accurately. The combo is hard to beat if you plan to shoot factory ammo.

 

[Ridgerunner60]

Thanks guys for your input. Look8ng like I’m going with 26in, 1/7 twist and shooting 75 eld.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

It all depends on how much you want to spend and how long you want to wait.
There are some here that will spend $5k on that unit including optics and wait a year for it.
Other's will spend $1k and shoot next weekend.
Where are you in that range ?

 

[NJRaised]

I have a heavy palma 24” 1:7 223. Things hammers with 75s. In hindsight I’d go with a heavier profile for competition. If I was hunting I’d go lighter profile. 26” and 1:7 is where you wanna be .

 

[Rob01]

Thanks guys for your input. Look8ng like I’m going with 26in, 1/7 twist and shooting 75 eld.

That's a good set up. My .223 has a 27" Proof Comp contour PVA Osprey barrel in 7 twist and it does great with the 75 ELDs. I have shot them to 1150 yards in matches and recoil is like nothing. A lot of fun!

 

[CaptArab]

I'd step up to 88s if I was running a long barrel.

 

[Rob01]

I run 75 ELD-Ms because I use it in Tac Division in PRS so max weight is 77grns.

 

[Nortex]

223 or 223ai in my case with an 75 or 80 are mainstays in my safe. They are such a pleasure to run and will enlighten plenty of folks or in some cases deflate egos because you aren't running x y or z "superior" caliber.

 

[702lineman]

I have several expensive builds in my safe room with custom actions ect, and my two favorite guns to shoot are my mk12 mod 0, and my 223 bolt gun which is on a stock remington action with a 7t hawk hill barrel in a manners stock.

I've had 223ai with .025 fb in the past and straight 223 with a .092 freebore now. The longer freebore really helped with speed. I'm running 75eld at 3067fps with xbr and it hammers. The secret to 223 or 223ai in a bolt gun is getting the right chamber and bullet I think.

 

[Ridgerunner60]

I ordered a Patriot Valley Arms barrel. (Prefit barrel nut), Proof Competition contour, 1/7 twist. No threading, I figured barrel is heavy enough with 223 would be an easy shooter. ill Be putting it in an MDT HS3 chassis.

 

[Chickentoast]

I have loads for both the 75 and 80 eld's in a 26" - the 80's have a slight ballistic advantage at my velocities, but I can't quantify it in practice - hit %'s seems to be about the same at long range. Both good to 1K in no wind. In wind, 600 or so yards no problem.

 

[Ridgerunner60]

Could you send me the loads for the 75 and 80 elds? I’d def would be interested. Thanks!

 

[Rob01]

Get some Varget, 8208XBR or VV135 and you will find a load for them. They all work very well.

 

[Chickentoast]

Could you send me the loads for the 75 and 80 elds? I’d def would be interested. Thanks!

Going to depend on your COAL - I've got 2.390 for 75's and 2.4965 for the 80's in my barrel. Powder I've settled on N540, but both N140 and 203b worked quite well also.

 

[otnot]

Here’s a couple of links to get you started in the right direction.
This one starts on page 34

https://www.dcra.ca/_files/ugd/b84a4b_ef0a3216eef349b19c9cb84235cefee5.pdf

This link is from accurate shooter

You are being redirected...

 

[Rob01]

19 pages of info on the Hide too.

.223 - 5.56

Same Data

www.snipershide.com

 

[Fret]

I didn't like how much of a heavier bullet was stuffed in the case so I just went to a .223 ISSF chamber with .169 freebore. In the photo the top is a 77 SMK loaded to just touch the lands in an ISSF chamber, in the center is a Black Hills factory 77 grain, and the bottom is a 77 SMK bullet.

 

[Rob01]

.223 Wylde chamber does the same in letting you seat the bullet out longer.

 

[Fret]

You're right but the Wylde freebore is only .062.

 

[Rob01]

It allows the 75 ELD to be seated out to 2.490" to touch the lands and I load them at 2.470". No problems with too much in the case. No way I would want anywhere near .169 freebore as it would be jumping way too much.

 

[Haney]

I didn't like how much of a heavier bullet was stuffed in the case so I just went to a .223 ISSF chamber with .169 freebore. In the photo the top is a 77 SMK loaded to just touch the lands in an ISSF chamber, in the center is a Black Hills factory 77 grain, and the bottom is a 77 SMK bullet.
View attachment 8142683

I just ordered a 7 twist with ISSF .169" chamber . I have a pile of 77 Tipped Match Kings I want to use up with it . The barrel smith recommended the ISSF chamber over the Wylde . I was skeptical about my choice , but seeing your pic makes me feel better . Although mine are Tipped it looks like I should be fine .

 

[otnot]

The 77 gr works fine out to 600 yards but after that the 90 gr. SMK does much better. Seat them long so you can get enough powder in the case to get 2750-2800 FPS. If you go much higher it’s really hard on the brass. With a good barrel sub moa is very do able at a 1000. Here is a cutout of a 90 gr seated at 2.574 coal

 

[Haney]

The 77 gr works fine out to 600 yards but after that the 90 gr. SMK does much better. Seat them long so you can get enough powder in the case to get 2750-2800 FPS. If you go much higher it’s really hard on the brass. With a good barrel sub moa is very do able at a 1000. Here is a cutout of a 90 gr seated at 2.574 coal

Thanks for that info and picture . Good to get a visual on it . This rifle will be shooting the 77s at 300 yards max at the home range so I will be fine . I will have to get some of those 90s and stretch things out .

 

[JG26_Irish]

Not sure of the OP's overall goals. Unless the Howa's factory bbl is already shot out, I would consider keeping it for a year or two and shoot it using the mid sized V-Max and Nosler bullets in the 53g and 55g up to 62g weight. The 1:12 twist will stabilize all of those well and you get lots of low cost practice before you spring for the match bbl. The light weight bullets are not as wind resistant but do stay supersonic out past 800y. Once you stretch them out past 5-6 hundred yards the wind variable starts to cause issues and you end up wasting a more of ammo.

I have a Rem 700 HB set in a Bell & Carlson chassis with a nice Timney CE trigger and a 5-25x FFP optic. The bbl is at about half life. Is not a tack driver but with my best ammo is doing 3-shot ace of spades groups at 100y. With lesser ammo options it is still 1/2 to 3/4 moa at 100y most of the time. That is with high quality factory ammo which is better than it used to be 30y ago.

At 400y it will hit the 1/2 MOA plate most of the time depending on wind. Larger plates at same distance are relatively easy. Recoil is light enough to call your own shots even without use of a muzzle break. That is using factory Federal loads with 53g V-max. With hand loads it usually does a little better. I have successfully shot it out to 615y with good results. Out past that I ran out of my good ammo before hitting any of the 700ish yard plates. My 6mm is a little better at those distances but not as much difference as you might imagine. At 400y the ballistic drop is within 1/10th mil of being the same. I shoot a lot of 22lr ELR stuff for practice and fun and honestly That improved my marksmanship more than any rifle or bullet. Keep that in mind if you are serious. A 22lr at 200y is ballistically about as challenging as a 308 or 6.5CM at 1000y. I am routinely shooting 22lr our to 400y (the limit of my main practice range) with repeatable results. Wind is a huge factor out past 200y on the rimfire. Same on CF out at 1000y. When you finally burn out the Howa, then you should look at one of the faster twist tubes but you will have gained tons of experience in the process. My 2 cents.

I attached a pic of my 6mm Sako and one of my 22lr practice rifles for example. Also a view of my 400y range looking down range. 200y tgts are on the right, 300y on the left and 400y in the middle.

 

[Ridgerunner60]

I really appreciate all the great information. All has been helpful and increasing my knowledge. As I have always said, gun people are best!

 

[huntnh]

I shoot the 80 grain eldms out of a 26 inch 1/7 out to 1000 with good success. At 2880 FPS it’s quite the laser beam

 

[dgheriani]

I'm currently on my 3rd .223 barrel on one of my rigs and they've all been 26" 7tw barrels. It's easy to get 2900fps+ using Varget or 8208 with the 75s and with the ELDMs, that gives you really good ballistic performance. If you're mostly shooting out to 300 yards, I'd just use the 75gr BTHPs as they're cheaper than the ELDMs and you don't really need the extra performance when shooting that close. I've mostly run the BTHPs (probably 15k BTHP vs 2-3k ELDM) and they perform great 600 and in (but have stretched them out to 900) but you do get a nice boost out of the ELDM for 500+. The nice thing I've found is that both bullets tend to shoot just as well with the same powder charge and at the same OAL (BTO) so that keeps things simple. The 75gr BTHP is just the best performance/value proposition, imo, as I mostly use it to practice on 4" targets at 300 and 400 yards.

 

[ma smith]

I'm currently on my 3rd .223 barrel on one of my rigs and they've all been 26" 7tw barrels. It's easy to get 2900fps+ using Varget or 8208 with the 75s and with the ELDMs, that gives you really good ballistic performance. If you're mostly shooting out to 300 yards, I'd just use the 75gr BTHPs as they're cheaper than the ELDMs and you don't really need the extra performance when shooting that close. I've mostly run the BTHPs (probably 15k BTHP vs 2-3k ELDM) and they perform great 600 and in (but have stretched them out to 900) but you do get a nice boost out of the ELDM for 500+. The nice thing I've found is that both bullets tend to shoot just as well with the same powder charge and at the same OAL (BTO) so that keeps things simple. The 75gr BTHP is just the best performance/value proposition, imo, as I mostly use it to practice on 4" targets at 300 and 400 yards.

75 BTHP is arguably the only bullet that makes shooting .223 a "cost effective" trainer, and its a great option if keeping it to closer ranges.

 

[anon]

Nothing wrong with 50 gr vmax at 3000 fps on the 200 - 300 yard lines. It'll remind you to pay attention to the wind.

 

[dgheriani]

75 BTHP is arguably the only bullet that makes shooting .223 a "cost effective" trainer, and its a great option if keeping it to closer ranges.

Yeah, 600 and in, they're great, I find. It's nice to have a common load between my .223 trainer barrel and my carbine (for longer range stuff) as well. You can squeeze more performance outta them loaded long (which I used to do) but I'm lazy and like having common loads so now I load em to AR mag length... I load the ELDMs long though.

 

[morning would]

Shot 88ELD’s today powered by 22.1 of XBR. 3.4mils up at 550 and 5.9 at 750. With no wind, it was boringly easy. These were shot from a Savage FTR with a 1:7 30” tube. what was crazy is that it was less drop than my 6.5 Grendel 123’s in front of 30.4gr of CfE223 from a Ruger American Predator. I wish I would have built a bad ass 223 instead of my ARC and Grendel. 223 with 88’s is a bitchin 800 yard and in rifle.

 

[padom]

Thanks guys for your input. Look8ng like I’m going with 26in, 1/7 twist and shooting 75 eld.

I've been shooting 1-7 and 1-8 26" bolt guns for many years. My favorite rifle. 80's at 2915-2930 (80smk, 80 vld, 80 eld) all shoot great.

75 eld, 77smk, 77tmk all shoot excellent as well around 3000-3030...I use varget and h4895 in lapua brass

 

[CavReconScout]

I am using 88gr ELD-M in my 24” Ruger RPR 223AI 1/7”. I load them out to 2.5 OAL, and they are running 2840fps using Varget. They are very accurate, and the drop mimics my 6.5 Creedmoor match loads. I use the 223AI for practice at the local 600yd range.