.223 for informal shooting?

[RichS]

Well,
I've decided that I "need" a bolt action .223 for target/steel out to possible 600 yards. Now I don't want to spend an arm and a leg, but I don't want a Savage or TC. I'd love to find something with a 1:7, but I just don't know if I like the RPR.

I love the look of the short barreled 700 SPS, but is a 1:9 OK for 75 grn pills? What about the Howa Mini in .223? I'm still considering a Tikka Varmint, but they're a little pricey, and I don't really want anything with more than a 20" barrel. So this is what I've found.....

RPR for $803
Weatherby Vanguard HBAR for $593
Howa Mini Heavy ... can't seem to find any
700 SPS 16.5"....found a used one "less than 100 rounds" with "Timney calvin elite adjustable trigger 8oz-2lb. Voodoo tactical jet comp brake,egw scope base.legacy magazine trigger guard kit.two 10 rd. polymer magazines" for $695. Or a NIB for $625
Tikka Varmint for $800-ishor a 20" T3 tac for $1100 (yikes).

I figure that after any mods (DBM, stock upgrades etc) I'd probably be equal or ahead with the RPR, but I'm just not "sold" on it.

Which would you do?

 

[diverdon]

Grabagun just had the .223 RPR for $800. I got one just to play with while I wait for Ted to send my Nucleus. It is a lot of gun for $800! If there is anything I don't love about it I can toss it up on the consignment rack at my local LGS and get my money back once the Nucleus it built.

 

[RichS]

Just not a fan of Savages. I wish the CTR came in .223....

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Well, that's up to you, but I am, and this is my recommendation.

1:9" is OK for some 75's (HDY 75gr HPBT-Match, or SRA 77SMK) in a longer barrel but longer bullets (75Amax, ELD's) will most likely have stability troubles, more likely in barrels shorter than 24". I have shot 75 HPBT-Match at 600yd successfully in 24: 1:9" barrels.

If you shoot AR, this Stag 15 Varminter Upper, with the BCG and Charging Handle Add-ons, winds up at about $483. I have its earlier equivalent (Stag Model 6 Super Varminter) and it's a great deal (24" 1:8" Stainless Bull Barrel) for getting the 75/77's way out there and ontarget.

I am preparing to test Hornady/Frontier 75gr HPBT Match and IMI 77gr Razor Core in mine.

Greg

 

[RichS]

Thanks Greg,
I have a few ARs and I'm looking to get back into bolt guns (albeit on a budget. Wife, kids, house, etc change things). I'm about to joing Ft. Meade's club so I'm stoked to have access to a longer range....

 

[ilmonster]

I have a Rem 700 SPS Tac with a 20" 1:9 barrel and it shoots 1/2 MOA with 68 and 75 gr. Hornady BTHP match bullets. It doesn't seem to like the new Hornady 73 gr ELD rounds - shoots more of a shotgun pattern. Mine is in a B&C Medalist stock with a Timney 510 trigger and Vortex PST II scope. I purchased the rifle originally with the Hogue tupperware stock with a rebate for just around $500.

 

[DarinC]

Cz makes one hell of a bolt rifle with a set trigger. Older 527 Varmints has an 8 twist if you can find one. The new ones are a 9 twist. Only issue I have with them is the crappy mags, bu they really are shooters.

Not a bad price either. https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/719003942/czu_527_euro_var_223_256_5rd

 

[Changed]

I just don’t think you can get better than a tikka I the price range. My friends and I have posted several .3 MOA group. And, that’s without working on seating depth. A KRG bravo isa nice addition.

 

[Lunchbox27]

I have a Rem700 sps tac 1:9 twist. It rusted in 2 months...I mean bad! None of my other rifles in the safe did this. My vote goes to tikka. Their actions are smooth, great trigger, even the stock is fine for plinking. I know you said you want a 20”, but you can always have it cut down.

By the time you get done upgrading the rem700 (trigger, stock) you are at the price of a Tikka and you would have saved time and headache and been at the range more.

My rem700 is accurate, but for what I had to do to get it there, plus cerakote... I wish I would have bought a Tikka.

 

[SlimySquirrel]

Yeah, been having some fun with my Tikka Super Varmint 1-8 twist and some 75 eld-m rounds.

So far managing 3095 fps so that would get you out there. The Sierra TMK 69 is doing 3145 and loaded to mag length.

Just remember that if you get a Tikka then you will need the extended bolt release and billet mag from tikkaperformance.com unless you get a CTR

 

[Changed]

Yeah, been having some fun with my Tikka Super Varmint 1-8 twist and some 75 eld-m rounds.

So far managing 3095 fps so that would get you out there. The Sierra TMK 69 is doing 3145 and loaded to mag length.

Just remember that if you get a Tikka then you will need the extended bolt release and billet mag from tikkaperformance.com unless you get a CTR

Why do you need the extended bolt release? I’ve got the LongAction release and hate it.

 

[celtics10]

If you're on a very tight budget, you can pick up a Tikka t3 lite in 223 with a 1/8 twist for about $500 on GunBroker. My dad and brother picked up one to share as an inexpensive varmint/target/fun rifle. They're very light and handy, and ours shoots comfortably shoots 1/2 moa groups. Pros are great accuracy, affordability, good trigger, nice action, light weight. Cons are sporter profile barrel heats up very fast, and the magazines don't like the really heavy long bullets. Something to think consider at least.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I don't sell guns, and I don't buy guns from private individuals. That wasn't always the case but it has been for well over a decade. It's just an over-complication of something that needs to be simpler.

I intend to go out with a well worn body, well provided descendants, and a goodly number of my favorite toys intact and recently used. So far, I'm on track...

Nothing is completely up front, but dealing direct with suppliers/distributors/licensed vendors has always been close enough to that for my purposes. It costs more, but in the end, I sleep better, too.

I put my time/money/effort into researching a better bang for buck ratio, which brings that cost back down some, maybe a lot.

I do so with the understanding that I'm going to be giving advice and making recommendations, and that getting any of that wrong has a really nasty way of coming back at one. Posting under my real name is a way of keeping myself honest. Folks here who are familiar with me expect that.

Believe me, don't believe me; at least I try hard and make the effort. When I started shooting rifles, the big step up was to going 'Chuck hunting with my elder Brothers in Duchess County/Kingston during the early 1960's. The implement was a Savage 340 .222 Rem with its sporter barrel, and the ammunition was Remington Kleenbore 50 grainers. These days we get better choices. Things have not gotten simpler, but they have definitely gotten better.

Greg

 

[stereo.pete]

Why do you need the extended bolt release? I’ve got the LongAction release and hate it.

Inquiring minds want to know . I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Tikka T3x Varmint myself and have not heard about any issues with the bolt release.

 

[pineoak]

T3x Varmint is under $700 shipped to your FFL new. Need a $60 scope rail though.

DAMN good gun for shooting standard .223 loads and an amazing value for a low priced rifle that shoots well out of the box.

I've never had an issue with the standard bolt release. 1:8 barrel I believe

I actually like the factory stock. Lightweight, stiff enough, and the gun seems to not have accuracy issues using it.

Won't be using long .223 without changing to different mags though. Factory Tikka mags for it are $30-35

I hit plates at 400 all day long running bulk 55gr. 550 is where the 55gr bulk starts to struggle.

 

[el_cazador713]

@pineoak - please send me a pm on where I can get a Tikka t3x Varmint in 223 for $500!!

 

[redneckbmxer24]

@pineoak - please send me a pm on where I can get a Tikka t3x Varmint in 223 for $500!!

Me too, thats way below cost.

 

[pineoak]

I was wrong $689

I was thinking of the T1x .22 I just preordered

 

[el_cazador713]

@pineoak - please still send that to me. That's still a hell of a deal vs $799 I typically see

 

[RichS]

@pineoak - please still send that to me. That's still a hell of a deal vs $799 I typically see

Please send me info as to where that is!

 

[mcfred]

I'll add my 2¢. I have recently handled .223s from Remington, Savage, Howa (Mini), and CZ (527).

The short answer is I'd buy a Howa Mini 9 twist barreled action ($260 from Brownell's when on sale) and a Boyds Pro Varmint stock ($135), bolt them together and go shooting. Despite the cheap plastic bottom "metal" the action itself runs smooth smooth smooth and the 2-stage trigger's pretty good too.

If you don't mind flimsy plastic furniture then you can get the complete rifle for $350 from Whittakers right now. LSI, the Howa importer, intends to release an 8 twist .223 this year if you can wait. They're working on a Mini chassis rifle too, if you can't stand the factory plastic furniture. LSI has been responsive to the market and customer service has been very good.

The market supports the Mini too if you want to upgrade later:
0 and 20 MOA picatinny bases
Timney Triggers
MDT, Boyds and McMillan have stock/chassis options
and DPI makes an affordable 100% aluminum bottom metal

 

[RichS]

Can the Howa Mini handle the longer match loads should I decide to start reloading? I've been in contact with Matt @ LSI and he told me the Minis and regular 1500 will all be available with a 1:8 twist shortly. I just wish KRG made the bravo for the mini

 

[mcfred]

No. Max mag length is close to 2.350" But you said "out to 600 yards for informal shooting." 77 SMKs at 3000fps buck the wind alright. If you want to play in the wind beyond 600, then there are better tools for those conditions IMO.

 

[RichS]

Ok, so I can get a Howa 1500 20" varmint .223 w/1:8 twist for $499 from Brownells. I can also get a 20" 1500 mini action (same twist) w/multicam stock for the same price. Any thoughts?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Ok, so I can get a Howa 1500 20" varmint .223 w/1:8 twist for $499 from Brownells. I can also get a 20" 1500 mini action (same twist) w/multicam stock for the same price. Any thoughts?

I wouldn’t get the mini action, it will severely limit your ability to run the long heavy bullets if you want them to feed from a mag. Stick to the 1500 and drop it in something like a KRG bravo so that you can run the AI pattern mags and load them long.

 

[DarinC]

If the varmint allows you to use a longer load (assuming you hand load) is go that direction so I wasn’t as handcuffed by the mag length of the mini.

I’m currently in the market myself, and that’s something that’s been weighing on me, but I’m waiting for the barreled actions to go on sale and drop one in a Boyd’s

 

[mcfred]

If you're going to get into realoading and marry yourself to the .223 Rem then stick with Redneck's advice. With AI pattern mags you might have a 'smith throat the barrel longer to make use of the extra mag length and reclaim the .223 case capacity. Longer barrels won't hurt the velocity department either.

 

[RichS]

Yeah, I have no plans on reloading. If I did, the mini wouldn't be a factor..

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Even if you don’t reload now it still won’t hurt anything having the longer mag. As soon as you start loading when you realize what you’ve been missing by shooting neutered 2.260” OAL 223 you’ll be glad you got it.

There’s also far more stock and chassis options for the 1500 when you realize that the factory Howa offerings (hogue and other Tupperware) suck. $350 gets you a KRG bravo and you’re in business.